Comics I am enraged (Feel free to merge this)

[Norman Osborn]

difference is... Spider-Man can stop them fast enough before there are any victims.

True, but the Act wasn't initiated specifically to protect the public from Spider-man....citizens should not have to assume "with great power comes better than average competency with said power"

 

[Themanofbat]

True, but the Act wasn't initiated specifically to protect the public from Spider-man....citizens should not have to assume "with great power comes better than average competency with said power"

Say that 5 times really fast...

 

[Norman Osborn]

Say that 5 times really fast...

NO!!

 

[DACrowe]

I'll just say it is more in keeping with Peter's character to do what he wants as the right thing and not listen to unjust government laws or unfair assumptions from the authorities. That has been a staple in his unpopularity with the public and being a loner for 40 years. But no, now he is Tony Stark's (aka George W. Bush's) little ***** and gets to unmask himself because "he was told to do so" and not standing up for what he has believed for 40 years not to mention his entire ideology of wearing a mask (**** Raimi gets it better than JQ, just watch Spider-Man 2 for info).

Having Peter sell out and join the Avengers and give away his identity for shock value and to sell comics is a terrible idea. The status quo had to change, but the character was designed to grow and change by Lee and the next step was children. A far more interesting avenue thaan celebrity which will only end another writer's block by the end of next year.

Alas.

 

[JackBauer]

Having Peter sell out and join the Avengers and give away his identity for shock value and to sell comics is a terrible idea. The status quo had to change, but the character was designed to grow and change by Lee and the next step was children. A far more interesting avenue thaan celebrity which will only end another writer's block by the end of next year.

Alas.

the VERY simple concept that JQ just can't grasp is that if you're going to change the status quo, don't f**k with the character or his past.

Gwen dying changed the status quo, but didn't alter anything existing really. revealing that she slept with Norman and all that s#!t not only f**ks with Gwen's character, it f**ks with MJ's.

Peter going to college, working as a teacher, that works. having him move to the Avengers towers wasn't as bad as some say, but it DID remove a big part of what made Spider-Man the everyman he's supposed to be. but it does make sense. Peter would never refuse it. that's the kind of change that can be accepted.

changing the status quo is all about changing dynamics, as opposed to just coming up with a new plot twist purely for shock value or a new gimmick like Iron-Spidey.

JQ just refuses to understand this.

 

[hrk83]

I'll just say it is more in keeping with Peter's character to do what he wants as the right thing and not listen to unjust government laws or unfair assumptions from the authorities. That has been a staple in his unpopularity with the public and being a loner for 40 years. But no, now he is Tony Stark's (aka George W. Bush's) little ***** and gets to unmask himself because "he was told to do so" and not standing up for what he has believed for 40 years not to mention his entire ideology of wearing a mask (**** Raimi gets it better than JQ, just watch Spider-Man 2 for info).

Having Peter sell out and join the Avengers and give away his identity for shock value and to sell comics is a terrible idea. The status quo had to change, but the character was designed to grow and change by Lee and the next step was children. A far more interesting avenue thaan celebrity which will only end another writer's block by the end of next year.

Alas.

i agree with that mate.

 

[Marc]

Peter would never refuse it. that's the kind of change that can be accepted.

I agree with all but this, Peter has already refused joining the avengers. I don't accept that change but its really quite small on the scale of things going on.

You have to wonder if the unmasking fans have actually thought about the consequences of this. Spider-Man IS the mask, an alternate personality to protect his identity. Spider-Man is very literally DEAD, there is no purpose for his existence, the costume is moot, the personality is moot. The character is redundant. This is what pro-marvel slaves have reduced one of its greatest characters to.... a.... little... ***** in non-existance. *sigh*

What an improvement on the title. *claps*

 

[stillanerd]

I agree with all but this, Peter has already refused joining the avengers. I don't accept that change but its really quite small on the scale of things going on.

You have to wonder if the unmasking fans have actually thought about the consequences of this. Spider-Man IS the mask, an alternate personality to protect his identity. Spider-Man is very literally DEAD, there is no purpose for his existence, the costume is moot, the personality is moot. The character is redundant. This is what pro-marvel slaves have reduced one of its greatest characters to.... a.... little... ***** in non-existance. *sigh*

What an improvement on the title. *claps*

Or to be more accurate, it's Peter Parker who is dead, at least in the metaphorical sense, because he no longer has a relatively normal life apart from being Spider-Man, thus eliminating the drama involved with his life as Peter Parker and how he tried to balance that with his other life as Spider-Man--which was partly why readers for decades read Spider-Man comics in the first place. Now, he's essentially Spider-Man 24/7. Or rather, considering how much of Iron Man's lapdog he's become, Spider-Tool.

"But wait!" says Joe Q, "You have at least a YEAR AND A HALF worth of Spider-Man stories with the unmasking." Maybe so, but that just tells me that the "unmasking" was never meant to be permanent and was just a sales stunt. But unfortunately, the WAY Peter's identity as Spider-Man was revealed, whatever "solution" Marvel comes up with is going to be so convoluted that, in the end, even those who liked the unmasking are going to cry foul. So not only is Joe Q "sucessful" in alienating the long time fans, but he'll be "successful" in alienating the die-hard fans as well, including the ever sought after "new and causal readers" who will only end up being woefully confused without having Civil War explained to them all over again. Should've paid more attention to the Clone Saga Marvel.

 

[Fathermithras]

While I agree this was a ****ty, ****ty move for Spidey, and that his comics have been written like a ******ed chimp got the job, I can't say it's a dumb move for spider-man plot wise. Why? Because IRONMAN KNOWS WHO HE IS. Iron Man would have just told the world Peter is Spider-man if he didn't, and Peter probably revealed himself in order to prevent that from occurring and thus having the appearance of control. At least, that'd be what a sensible writer would come up with. But knowing the staff, his reasons are because he's a sellout who has to deal with having sold out. Oh well, ho hum. I wonder how they're gonna **** him up more?

 

[stillanerd]

While I agree this was a ****ty, ****ty move for Spidey, and that his comics have been written like a ******ed chimp got the job, I can't say it's a dumb move for spider-man plot wise. Why? Because IRONMAN KNOWS WHO HE IS. Iron Man would have just told the world Peter is Spider-man if he didn't, and Peter probably revealed himself in order to prevent that from occurring and thus having the appearance of control. At least, that'd be what a sensible writer would come up with. But knowing the staff, his reasons are because he's a sellout who has to deal with having sold out. Oh well, ho hum. I wonder how they're gonna **** him up more?

It certainly would've been more credible, while I wouldn't necessarily like it, if Peter went to that press conference, told them he was registering but not publicly revealing his identity for the sake of protecting his family--after all, the SHRA only requires you to disclose your identity to the government, not to the public--and then, the following day, some anonymous source "leaks" to the press that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, forcing Peter to confirm it. It would then leave open the possibility that Peter, after Civil War, can get out of it by saying he was "protecting" the "real" Spider-Man from registration by passing himself off as Spider-Man. Right now, however, because he volunteered to unmask publicly, it does make it more convoluted for him to regain his secret identity on top of making him look like a sell-out.

 

[Marc]

Or to be more accurate, it's Peter Parker who is dead, at least in the metaphorical sense, because he no longer has a relatively normal life apart from being Spider-Man, thus eliminating the drama involved with his life as Peter Parker and how he tried to balance that with his other life as Spider-Man--which was partly why readers for decades read Spider-Man comics in the first place. Now, he's essentially Spider-Man 24/7. Or rather, considering how much of Iron Man's lapdog he's become, Spider-Tool.

"But wait!" says Joe Q, "You have at least a YEAR AND A HALF worth of Spider-Man stories with the unmasking." Maybe so, but that just tells me that the "unmasking" was never meant to be permanent and was just a sales stunt. But unfortunately, the WAY Peter's identity as Spider-Man was revealed, whatever "solution" Marvel comes up with is going to be so convoluted that, in the end, even those who liked the unmasking are going to cry foul. So not only is Joe Q "sucessful" in alienating the long time fans, but he'll be "successful" in alienating the die-hard fans as well, including the ever sought after "new and causal readers" who will only end up being woefully confused without having Civil War explained to them all over again. Should've paid more attention to the Clone Saga Marvel.

Well there is no spider-man to be now. He's naked and without a costume to protect him. Dressing up is more pointless than the iron-spidey costume, if thats possible. Peter 'The Tool' Parker works for me, or just refer to him as The Idiot.

This is it, these people keep resorting to the SAME line "do you hate change?". Well apparently you guys do too, they keep coming up with this rubbish but then assuring us it isn't permanent. How exactly can you use the argument of 'all change is good' while at the same time saying it is only temporary. As bad as the defence was in the first place, self-contradicting it is just a tad pathetic. Subplots and mini-arc's are what continuing series should be about, these long, drawn out shock events make waves and get attention. And bad publicity is still good for getting sales, but that bubble bursts after a while. Its been seen in the past in comics and wouldn't be 'shocked' if it happened again. Its like marketing hype can only take you so far before you realise a guy like Michael Bay is a talentless hack and stop putting down cash for his ****ty movies. And its like they know they're doing badly too, I am sure Millar was leaving some not so subtle hints in civil war. Saying what spidey did goes against everything he believes in and how that was a powerful 'symbol'. Yeahuh. Or Tony using apporval ratings as his argument, rather than y'know... an actual argument. Its what politicians resort to when they have no position to try and confuse people, anyone using a percentage in a debate is automatically losing. Parallel of good sales, but **** all logic and sense applied... the marvel method.

 

[JackBauer]

I agree with all but this, Peter has already refused joining the avengers. I don't accept that change but its really quite small on the scale of things going on.

You have to wonder if the unmasking fans have actually thought about the consequences of this. Spider-Man IS the mask, an alternate personality to protect his identity. Spider-Man is very literally DEAD, there is no purpose for his existence, the costume is moot, the personality is moot. The character is redundant. This is what pro-marvel slaves have reduced one of its greatest characters to.... a.... little... ***** in non-existance. *sigh*

What an improvement on the title. *claps*

okay, maybe he'd not never refuse it, but it's undeniably more acceptable to have a guy who's been basically broke for years and years to accept a home for his family in a million dollar apartment.

it's not something outside the realms of possiblity. do I like it, personally? no, it's not my favourite decision, but I can deal with it.

it's not like completely changing the personality of a character to fit your story.

 

[Chris Wallace]

the VERY simple concept that JQ just can't grasp is that if you're going to change the status quo, don't f**k with the character or his past.

Gwen dying changed the status quo, but didn't alter anything existing really. revealing that she slept with Norman and all that s#!t not only f**ks with Gwen's character, it f**ks with MJ's.

Peter going to college, working as a teacher, that works. having him move to the Avengers towers wasn't as bad as some say, but it DID remove a big part of what made Spider-Man the everyman he's supposed to be. but it does make sense. Peter would never refuse it. that's the kind of change that can be accepted.

changing the status quo is all about changing dynamics, as opposed to just coming up with a new plot twist purely for shock value or a new gimmick like Iron-Spidey.

JQ just refuses to understand this.

I agree; and to think I defended "Sins Past".

 

[Aging Fangirl]

Though i generally agree with everything you said, trying to understand it from the anti-registration side (which i want to, even though i do think registration probably makes more sense) i think it can be seen as a violation of civil liberties in the sense that it effectively means you can't save someone you happen to see in trouble unless you are registered to do so. This is a huge infringement on the legal concept of self defence (ie defence of another or defence of property). Now to be fair you probably still can save someone in trouble just so long as you aren't wearing a mask or using powers, but it's not a huge extension to say this is still an in-road into the notion of defence and as such an infringement on civil liberties.
this occured to me in issue 2 when shield spot a hero (can't remember who) saving someone then proceed to take the hero down.

for example maybe a person has powers but doesn't want to work for the government and then sees an assault which they know they can stop. They may want to dash in there, save the day without then having to wait for officials to arrive at the scene who will then require the 'hero' to give up his day job and work full time for the government. The only other option seems to be to save the day without using his powers (as an ordinary citizen) which would be absurd

i think it's this enforced working for the goverment thing if you wish to use powers to help someone which is the infringment.

of course the other concern for heros is the potential of becoming lackies, or merely goverment or military weapons/pawns, being told what they can and can't be involved in, etc. no doubt the rushed legislation is a result of the public outcry, which is necessary story-wise, though a compromise would have been better where heros are registered, identifiable by SHIELD or the CIA, so they can still be held accountable when things go wrong, without becoming agents on a pay-role, subject to orders. of course that still doesn't solve the problem of why many heros have secret identities in the first place which is to protect themselves and families from retribution by the many super villians they face, if sensitive data on their identities got hacked. and in the Marvel universe where villians are often so powerful and resourceful that no one but heros are equiped enough to stop them i don't see how that data could ever be reasonably secure.

I know that this thread isn't directly about CW, but it is a hot button here. That said, I'm surprised no one has responded to this post.

14K london spider raises some very interesting points. What about those people who, for whatever reason, choose not to be heroes day in and day out. Maybe their powers are marginal. Maybe they're up in age, or very young. Maybe they're generally indifferent! Should this powered person be forced to 'join the marines' if he's suddently thrust into a situation that makes him want to take action? Or that forces him to take action? Suppose he's being mugged? Under the SHRA, if he's not registered, will they put him in the paddy wagon along with the mugger? There are two sides to this issue but they're not being explored equally.

Maybe this has already been discussed to hash over in the CW thread.

 

[JackBauer]

I agree; and to think I defended "Sins Past".

why?!

you should be ashamed of yourself!!

 

[stillanerd]

Sp

Well there is no spider-man to be now. He's naked and without a costume to protect him. Dressing up is more pointless than the iron-spidey costume, if thats possible. Peter 'The Tool' Parker works for me, or just refer to him as The Idiot.

This is it, these people keep resorting to the SAME line "do you hate change?". Well apparently you guys do too, they keep coming up with this rubbish but then assuring us it isn't permanent. How exactly can you use the argument of 'all change is good' while at the same time saying it is only temporary. As bad as the defence was in the first place, self-contradicting it is just a tad pathetic. Subplots and mini-arc's are what continuing series should be about, these long, drawn out shock events make waves and get attention. And bad publicity is still good for getting sales, but that bubble bursts after a while. Its been seen in the past in comics and wouldn't be 'shocked' if it happened again. Its like marketing hype can only take you so far before you realise a guy like Michael Bay is a talentless hack and stop putting down cash for his ****ty movies. And its like they know they're doing badly too, I am sure Millar was leaving some not so subtle hints in civil war. Saying what spidey did goes against everything he believes in and how that was a powerful 'symbol'. Yeahuh. Or Tony using apporval ratings as his argument, rather than y'know... an actual argument. Its what politicians resort to when they have no position to try and confuse people, anyone using a percentage in a debate is automatically losing. Parallel of good sales, but **** all logic and sense applied... the marvel method.

Spot on as always, Marc. Also, just to show that Marvel really didn't stand by their convictions, we started getting a game of "hot potato" immediately when Civil War #2 barely hit the stands, with Mark Millar saying that Spider-Man unmasking himself in public was Joe Q's idea, and then claims that he doesn't know whose idea it was and that maybe it was Tom Brevoot's. As for the hints, Millar even admitted that it wasn't his original idea for Spider-Tool to be on the registration side, and it's become patently obvious that Marvel, despite their claims of saying "there is no right or wrong side in Civil War" has in fact choosen a side, especially when the leader of one side is highly manipulative and is concerned about how the public views them rather than simply doing the right thing regardless of what the public thinks. Which is another reason Spider-Tool would not have unmasked publicly, considering how Aunt May's speech about people would love him more if you told them who you really are proved to be a bunch of baloney as far as the public was concerned.

 

[Chris Wallace]

He never cared about public approval before. And Aunt May can't possibly be that stupid. Do none of them know about Daredevil?

 

[Chris Wallace]

Something else about CW that confuses me; what the hell is the objective? Do the pro-regs think (Or hope) that the anti-regs will come around & sign up? Are the anti-regs hoping to get the Registration Act abolished? Does either side really think b****-slapping your friends will accomplish anything?

 

[Chris Wallace]

why?!

you should be ashamed of yourself!!

I am. I saw it as just a story, no big deal. Now I see it as another link in a chain of bad moves on Marvel's part that have done seemingly irreparable harm to my all-time favorite character.

 

[savemarvel]

Sp

Spot on as always, Marc. Also, just to show that Marvel really didn't stand by their convictions, we started getting a game of "hot potato" immediately when Civil War #2 barely hit the stands, with Mark Millar saying that Spider-Man unmasking himself in public was Joe Q's idea, and then claims that he doesn't know whose idea it was and that maybe it was Tom Brevoot's. As for the hints, Millar even admitted that it wasn't his original idea for Spider-Tool to be on the registration side, and it's become patently obvious that Marvel, despite their claims of saying "there is no right or wrong side in Civil War" has in fact choosen a side, especially when the leader of one side is highly manipulative and is concerned about how the public views them rather than simply doing the right thing regardless of what the public thinks. Which is another reason Spider-Tool would not have unmasked publicly, considering how Aunt May's speech about people would love him more if you told them who you really are proved to be a bunch of baloney as far as the public was concerned.

It shows that Marvel drop the ball big time and they know it, that's why they are pointing the figure at each other.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I saw JQ on TV yesterday; he was saying that Marvel was all about "making the fans happy & giving us the kind of stories we'd come to know the last 40 years". What a load of crap. He also said that they weren't going to undo Spidey's reveal b/c that would be cheating us.

 

[JackBauer]

I saw JQ on TV yesterday; he was saying that Marvel was all about "making the fans happy & giving us the kind of stories we'd come to know the last 40 years". What a load of crap. He also said that they weren't going to undo Spidey's reveal b/c that would be cheating us.

uh-huh, because JQ has never retconned anything before... he just forgets about it and never mentions it again.

this guy has some balls to say that Marvel's about making the fans happy. this coming from the guy responsible for Sins Past and The Other. : down

 

[Chris Wallace]

uh-huh, because JQ has never retconned anything before... he just forgets about it and never mentions it again.

Like the Byrne/Mackie era?

 

[Chris Wallace]

And let's forget about Aunt May & MJ for a second. hell, let's even forget about supervillains. What's to stop some small-time crook w/either a chip on his shoulder and/or a desparate wish to make a name for himself, from blowing up Midtown High or the Bugle just to hurt Peter?

 

[JackBauer]

And let's forget about Aunt May & MJ for a second. hell, let's even forget about supervillains. What's to stop some small-time crook w/either a chip on his shoulder and/or a desparate wish to make a name for himself, from blowing up Midtown High or the Bugle just to hurt Peter?

ssshhhh... you're making too much sense. Quesada will not like it.