The Dark Knight I guess joker just applies make-up after all

[Marx]

Do I think that Nolan has recycled things? Yes I do. I have mentioned this before, maybe in this thread, maybe not. Definately somewhere on this site though.

For example -

At the end of B89 - The Joker is standing in front of his float, gas has gone everywhere. Batman approaches in the Batwing. Joker says "come to me you gruesome son of a b****, come to me. Come on, hit me?" Or something close to that. Batman fires, he misses of course. Joker pulls out a huge gun, fires and hits Batman causing him to crash on the cathedral steps right behing him.

Scene from TDK (which was have only seen a small small clip of) - The Joker is standing in the middle of the street. Batman approaches on the Batcycle. Joker walks up the street eratically with gun in hand firing at Batman, screaming at him, "Come on, hit me!" Batman misses of course, and crashes in the middle of the street right behind Joker.

SO yes, Nolan has borrowed ideas of scenes. Or appears to have. I am talking about his take on the characters themselves.

 

[The Shape]

Do I think that Nolan has recycled things? Yes I do. I have mentioned this before, maybe in this thread, maybe not. Definately somewhere on this site though.

For example -

At the end of B89 - The Joker is standing in front of his float, gas has gone everywhere. Batman approaches in the Batwing. Joker says "come to me you gruesome son of a b****, come to me. Come on, hit me?" Or something close to that. Batman fires, he misses of course. Joker pulls out a huge gun, fires and hits Batman causing him to crash on the cathedral steps right behing him.

Scene from TDK (which was have only seen a small small clip of) - The Joker is standing in the middle of the street. Batman approaches on the Batcycle. Joker walks up the street eratically with gun in hand firing at Batman, screaming at him, "Come on, hit me!" Batman misses of course, and crashes in the middle of the street right behind Joker.

SO yes, Nolan has borrowed ideas of scenes. Or appears to have. I am talking about his take on the characters themselves.

I can see the similarities there, but each scene takes place at a different point in a different story, and the character's motivations seem different as well.

In '89, Batman targets the Joker with all of his missiles and guns, obviously trying to kill him, but magically misses. Then, the Joker pulls out his long gun and shoots down the Batwing. In TDK, the Joker is shooting at Batman, but then he loses the gun and eggs Batman on. Batman speeds towards the Joker, but the Joker stands fearless and Batman must swerve away and skid to a stop, otherwise he would have hit and killed the Joker.

 

[CaptainClown]

ya 89 batman wanted to kill joker vs tdk batman seems to want to but end up chickening out.

 

[Marx]

I can see the similarities there, but each scene takes place at a different point in a different story, and the character's motivations seem different as well.

In '89, Batman targets the Joker with all of his missiles and guns, obviously trying to kill him, but magically misses. Then, the Joker pulls out his long gun and shoots down the Batwing. In TDK, the Joker is shooting at Batman, but then he loses the gun and eggs Batman on. Batman speeds towards the Joker, but the Joker stands fearless and Batman must swerve away and skid to a stop, otherwise he would have hit and killed the Joker.

That's true Shape. Crook had just asked if I thought Nolan borrowed ideas. I think he has borrowed ideas of scenes. They are similiar, but not the same though. You're right.

 

[gwynplaine]

Do I think that Nolan has recycled things? Yes I do. I have mentioned this before, maybe in this thread, maybe not. Definately somewhere on this site though.

For example -

At the end of B89 - The Joker is standing in front of his float, gas has gone everywhere. Batman approaches in the Batwing. Joker says "come to me you gruesome son of a b****, come to me. Come on, hit me?" Or something close to that. Batman fires, he misses of course. Joker pulls out a huge gun, fires and hits Batman causing him to crash on the cathedral steps right behing him.

Scene from TDK (which was have only seen a small small clip of) - The Joker is standing in the middle of the street. Batman approaches on the Batcycle. Joker walks up the street eratically with gun in hand firing at Batman, screaming at him, "Come on, hit me!" Batman misses of course, and crashes in the middle of the street right behind Joker.

SO yes, Nolan has borrowed ideas of scenes. Or appears to have. I am talking about his take on the characters themselves.

To me that 3 minutes trailer was more exciting that all of Burton's movie.
But I also agree that for the time it was great and I love "B returns"t: .

 

[The Shape]

That's true Shape. Crook had just asked if I thought Nolan borrowed ideas. I think he has borrowed ideas of scenes. They are similiar, but not the same though. You're right.

That's the only scene that seems similar out of the scenes we've been exposed to so far.

Obviously, things will be recycled and reused, as we saw in Begins, but that's life.

 

[Marx]

That's the only scene that seems similar out of the scenes we've been exposed to so far.

Obviously, things will be recycled and reused, as we saw in Begins, but that's life.

Exactly. I'm more interested in what Nolan's interpretation of the characters has been. I think what he has done is really good.

 

[Ryo Jin]

I ain't no rat!!!

Besides, in a thread this bad, who's there to rat to?

 

[The Shape]

ya 89 batman wanted to kill joker vs tdk batman seems to want to but end up chickening out.

It was pretty much a game of Chicken. Batman was expecting the Joker to jump out of the way, but he was wrong.

 

[CaptainClown]

It was pretty much a game of Chicken. Batman was expecting the Joker to jump out of the way, but he was wrong.

at the risk of killing him? Nah Keatons Batman wanted to kill Joker; TDK batman seems to be playing chicken with Joker.

 

[The Shape]

at the risk of killing him? Nah Keatons Batman wanted to kill Joker; TDK batman seems to be playing chicken with Joker.

Right, that's exactly what I said. He was expecting Joker to jump out of the way, but when he wasn't doing that, Batman had to swerve past him. I even said it was a game of Chicken.

 

[CaptainClown]

well you didn't specify which batman you were talking about so I assumed it was Keaton and he is playing chicken.

 

[nickyg641]

Well, "new" does not always equal bad, and "old" doesn't always equal good.

The truth is that for every person that wishes we could get a Batman movie that is more faithful to the comics, there is another person that loves the direction these movies and enjoys seeing a different interpretation of the characters.

There is no possible way that everyone will be pleased when a Batman movie is made.

Still, do you think you would have heard a single person complain if the Joker had been permawhite? I mean, we've seen Batman's origin told more times than a Joker with permawhite. Did that make Batman Begins "the same old thing", for being an origin story?

well you didn't specify which batman you were talking about so I assumed it was Keaton and he is playing chicken.

Actually, I always assumed that Keaton was "playing chicken", as well.

 

[Marx]

Still, do you think you would have heard a single person complain if the Joker had been permawhite? I mean, we've seen Batman's origin told more times than a Joker with permawhite. Did that make Batman Begins "the same old thing", for being an origin story?


Actually, I always assumed that Keaton was "playing chicken", as well.

I don't know if I'd go that far. BB was done very well! But there is such a thing as beating a dead horse.

 

[nickyg641]

I don't know if I'd go that far. BB was done very well! But there is such a thing as beating a dead horse.

What exactly do you mean? BB was beating a dead horse with the origin, or TDK would be beatng a dead horse with a permawhite Joker?

 

[CaptainClown]

Actually, I always assumed that Keaton was "playing chicken", as well.

It kind of felt like chicken, but considering he was shooting at him; and he tried killing him at axis chemicals earlier. Keaton was out for blood

 

[Crook]

What exactly do you mean? BB was beating a dead horse with the origin, or TDK would be beatng a dead horse with a permawhite Joker?

Both answers would be wrong anyway.

 

[Marx]

What exactly do you mean? BB was beating a dead horse with the origin, or TDK would be beatng a dead horse with a permawhite Joker?

I guess I just mean that there is a need to do things differently from time to time. Rather than doing them the same way again. The Joker has appeared the same way in every screen version there is. I think Nolan's new version is refreshing.

 

[The Battousai]

Still, do you think you would have heard a single person complain if the Joker had been permawhite? I mean, we've seen Batman's origin told more times than a Joker with permawhite. Did that make Batman Begins "the same old thing", for being an origin story?

I wouldn't call Bruce's parents being killed Batman's origin per se - it's more of a catalyst for the events that lead up to him putting on the mask.

Not only has Joker had more origins in the comics than Batman, but Joker has also had more origins on film as well. Batman, on the other hand, has only had one entire on-screen origin.

 

[Crook]

I guess I just mean that there is a need to do things differently from time to time. Rather than doing them the same way again. The Joker has appeared the same way in every screen version there is.I think Nolan's new version is refreshing.

You must've been real disappointed with Batman.

 

[nickyg641]

I wouldn't call Bruce's parents being killed Batman's origin per se - it's more of a catalyst for the events that lead up to him putting on the mask.

Not only has Joker had more origins in the comics than Batman, but Joker has also had more origins on film as well. Batman, on the other hand, has only had one entire on-screen origin.

In my original post, I didn't mean the Joker's origin, just permawhite Joker. I was merely pointing out that we've seen Batman's backstory several times, in animation and film. We saw it twice in the old franchise.

What made the difference is that Nolan presented this aspect in a refreshing way, not necessarily chucking it completely. I don't see why permawhite couldn't get the same treatment. Do it in a different way. Don't show the origin. Make it part of the mystery.

He could do it in a more realistic way; it doesn't have to look like caked on makeup. With today's makeup techniques, there's no reason they couldn't have produced a creepy, striking, and realistic-looking effect.

And, besides, it's not like permawhite is the thing making the difference. What's "refreshing" about this Joker is the performance, and Nolan's unique visual take on the character (it actually would have been pretty cool if, in addition to permawhite, the Joker had the scarred smile, and wore the black and red makeup.)

 

[The Battousai]

In my original post, I didn't mean the Joker's origin, just permawhite Joker. I was merely pointing out that we've seen Batman's backstory several times, in animation and film. We saw it twice in the old franchise.

What made the difference is that Nolan presented this aspect in a refreshing way, not necessarily chucking it completely. I don't see why permawhite couldn't get the same treatment. Do it in a different way. Don't show the origin. Make it part of the mystery.

He could do it in a more realistic way; it doesn't have to look like caked on makeup. With today's makeup techniques, there's no reason they couldn't have produced a creepy, striking, and realistic-looking effect.

And, besides, it's not like permawhite is the thing making the difference. What's "refreshing" about this Joker is the performance, and Nolan's unique visual take on the character (it actually would have been pretty cool if, in addition to permawhite, the Joker had the scarred smile, and wore the black and red makeup.)

And I agree with these other points -

I was just trying to point out that Batman's origin isn't necessarily the murders of Bruce's parents.

 

[Marx]

You must've been real disappointed with Batman.

No at all. I LOVED B89. I wasn't really referring to BB either. I was referring more to the reinvention of the Joker for TDK. It's refreshing. (That's all I have meant by the "beating a dead horse comment."

 

[The Joker_1000]

I'm watching Batman (1989) right now. It's at the end with the Joker taking Vale up the Church.

 

[Marx]

I'm watching Batman (1989) right now. It's at the end with the Joker taking Vale up the Church.