The Dark Knight I guess joker just applies make-up after all

[BatSpider]

Yeah BatSpider, I'm thinking we walked into something not so pleasant going on in here.

We must bring justice to this Thread!

 

[sglass03]

To be fair, I hold the people who "mock" Ledger's death in the same regard as the people who "mourn" it like they lost a personal friend.

Ledger was a great actor, and his death robbed the world of talent, to be sure. But we didn't know him personally, nor did he hold a place in our lives akin to being a father, a brother, or a son (and he was all of those.) We have no right to mock his death, nor go around shedding tears like we are unduly personally affected. IMO, both are an insult to his REAL family and friends.

Ledger was simply an artist whom most of us liked and respected. Let's not turn this into an melodramatic sideshow.

 

[Mercurius]

Back on track? What track? Where I come from, most 70 year olds spend their time sitting in the garden and sipping gin and tonic. Where exactly is he supposed to "be", physically, at his age? Should he be like one of those geriatric bodybuilders that look like a condom stuffed with tangerines?

Let me see: so you think because one is aged one should become a barrel?

Or that there is nothing between überfat and your tangerine old bags?

It's an interesting point of view, surely, but you should consider the difficulty of carrying that carcass everywhere. Must be quite painful.

Not to say it hurts the eyes.

The 70 year olds from where you come from are real sluggards, aren't they?

 

[Crook]

To be fair, I hold the people who "mock" Ledger's death in the same regard as the people who "mourn" it like they lost a personal friend.

Ledger was a great actor, and his death robbed the world of talent, to be sure. But we didn't know him personally, nor did he hold a place in our lives akin to being a father, a brother, or a son (and he was all of those.) We have no right to mock his death, nor go around shedding tears like we are unduly personally affected. IMO, both are an insult to his REAL family and friends.

Ledger was simply an artist whom most of us liked and respected. Let's not turn this into an melodramatic sideshow.

How incredibly moronic.

No, he may not have been close to some people as a brother or close relative, but that doesn't mean they can't shed a tear or so for someone they've admired, respected, and looked up to.

I personally am not one of those people, but I'm not gonna hold it against anyone who is. I'd completely understand if they felt strongly hurt by the news of his death. I have quite a few people that I greatly admire, but have never talked to, and their sudden death WOULD affect me greatly. It's completely natural to feel grief if you are emotionally invested with someone else, even if it is from afar.

 

[Mr. Superhero]

To be fair, I hold the people who "mock" Ledger's death in the same regard as the people who "mourn" it like they lost a personal friend.

Ledger was a great actor, and his death robbed the world of talent, to be sure. But we didn't know him personally, nor did he hold a place in our lives akin to being a father, a brother, or a son (and he was all of those.) We have no right to mock his death, nor go around shedding tears like we are unduly personally affected. IMO, both are an insult to his REAL family and friends.

Ledger was simply an artist whom most of us liked and respected. Let's not turn this into an melodramatic sideshow.

And yet, who are you to proclaim how people should and should not feel about Ledger's death? If someone feels hurt by Heath's death, then they feel hurt by it. Are you saying that there is a national guideline as to how much a person can feel towards the death of an artist?

It's ridiculous. People cannot help their feelings, and if they have come to admire Ledger over a period of time, then they are going to be affected by his death. I, for one, was pretty distraught when I heard the news about Heath. That's just how I felt, and I wasn't going to let anybody tell me how I should feel about his death.

 

[TheBat812]

That's a bit of a cop out isn't it? Removing the 1989 film from the problem. When it is the central issue. The issue is that for every person who is looking forward to The Dark Knight, who approaches this movie with an open mind, there is another person who cannot get past 1989. They are stuck in a time warp and are get angrier and angrier when they see other people enjoying what looks to be an exciting new direction for The Joker character. So I think the issue is Burton and Nicholson. Because they represent some rose-tinted view of the world.

 

[regwec]

I don't see why it's unacceptable to criticise Heath's performance. The fact of his untimely death doesn't actually change his performance itself.

For the record, I had nothing against his casting, and still don't; he was obviously very talented.

 

[sglass03]

I can see why this thread has degenerated into a series of useless arguments.

I'm not telling anyone how to feel. You can feel however you like. My statement is that, IMO, the people who come about rudely mocking Ledger's death are in the same boat as the people who come about pretending their lives have been ruined by it - they are attention-seekers. Perhaps it is not as destructive or ugly outright, but it's just as offensive.

Now let me explain:

There's nothing wrong with mourning someone you respected. When Ledger died, I was shocked, disappointed, and saddened that the world had lost such a talent. But my day went on as usual, because Ledger was not a personal friend, a sibling, or a family member. Our "grief," whatever that might be, doesn't even begin to hold a candle to his parents or other close relatives/confidantes.

They have experienced his highs, his lows - the birth of his daughter, his separation from Michelle Willaims. They have raised him since birth, grew up with him, had personal conversations, all the things we have with our own friends and family. How do WE know Ledger? Simply by his film roles and media-related appearances? Does that even compare? By pretending we are just as torn by this as they are is rude, in my opinion. Our role as fans is not to pretend we knew him, but to respect his memory and give his family privacy and our sympathy. The world has been robbed of talent, but they have paid a larger price - they have been robbed of a dear loved one.

 

[Crook]

And who's to say they're pretending? And how do even measure the amount of grief that should be allowed in comparison to Heath's loved ones? Grief is grief. Does it matter "how much"?

It's not anyone's place to state how one should deal with pain.

 

[Kelly]

Get back on topic guys....

 

[sglass03]

I don't see why it's unacceptable to criticise Heath's performance. The fact of his untimely death doesn't actually change his performance itself.

For the record, I had nothing against his casting, and still don't; he was obviously very talented.

That's exactly my point. Some people are taking personal offense when you look to criticize Ledger's performance, as if you are speaking ill of a personal friend, when you, in fact, are not.

And, for the record in my own case, I love everything about Ledger's performance - from what I've seen, he looks to be the best Joker yet. And I've always thought he was a great actor, even if his casting surprised me at first (of course, I've come to see it was an excellent decision.)

But his death shouldn't result in a banishment of honest opinions and assessments of his acting - this is a message board, after all. If someone has a problem with his portrayal, they shouldn't be automatically villainized because he's passed on.

 

[regwec]

Hahah! Just ignore the pedantry when it grates too much.

 

[Kelly]

Get back on topic guys....

I'll ask one more time....

 

[Crook]

You didn't say please.









Nor did you ask in the first place.

 

[regwec]

Understood, I just wanted to make it clear why I wouldn't respond to the provocation.

Can somebody find that picture of The Joker in a vest that was taken by a scooper some time ago?

He looked almost exactly like one of The Sensei's Men of Death...

 

[Marx]

SO THE JOKER IS JUST SOME GUY WHO WEARS MAKEUP AFTERALL???












Whoa.

 

[Kelly]

You didn't say please.









Nor did you ask in the first place.

That was me asking.....

 

[Nightwing1977]

I think it'd be best if everyone in the world tried to stay in shape. That's why starting today for a whole month I'm cutting out chips, candy, etc. The only junk food I may eat will be fast food. Other than that, I won't be eating a lot of junk. I'm trying to give my body a chance to lose some more fat so I don't end up like that thing in the picture above.

Yep. It not about looking good, but improving your health. Less risk of heart attack, diabetic, etc.

that's all damiean does.

Yep. He so immature & always will be. He just do nothing but make excuse & think he know what happend when Heath die. Too full of himself.

People who mock Heath's death don't do it because they like Burton and/or Nicholson. They do it because they lack character.

And they lack class too.

Anyway, back on topic.

 

[deathfromabove]

People who mock Heath's death don't do it because they like Burton and/or Nicholson. They do it because they lack character.

 

[gwynplaine]

One of the many things I love about that new Joker is that sometimes his face reminds me of one the greek mask that symbolises theatre and drama, the smiling one of courset: .

 

[Mr. Socko]

SO THE JOKER IS JUST SOME GUY WHO WEARS MAKEUP AFTERALL???



Whoa.

The Joker isn't 'just some guy' at all. I realize you were just kidding, but that's something that a lot of people bring up. I am in favor of perma-white mind you, but when others say without it he's "just some guy in makeup" their argument only seems weaker because it pretty much insinuates otherwise he is "just some guy with white skin." Neither is the case.

 

[Marx]

The Joker isn't 'just some guy' at all. I realize you were just kidding, but that's something that a lot of people bring up. I am in favor of perma-white mind you, but when others say without it he's "just some guy in makeup" their argument only seems weaker because it pretty much insinuates otherwise he is "just some guy with white skin." Neither is the case.

Indeed I was kidding Socko but the topic of conversation has returned to the purpose of the thread.

 

[Beanjuice]

agreed. if he was just "some guy" he wouldnt have been that important to the batman world at all

 

[Gianakin_]

I'll wait and see how they handle the whole deal with his make-up.

Right now, I'm of the opinion that it probably won't matter, but since they went out of their way to change it, a reasonable explanation would be appreciated/ required.

 

[gwynplaine]

agreed. if he was just "some guy" he wouldnt have been that important to the batman world at all

Indeed, if he was just "some guy" he'd be John Wayne Gacy (or should I say Pogo the clownt: ) and wouldn't be that interesting.