I no longer hate Batman & Robin....

[Kevin Roegele]

Maybe Spider-Man 3's message of forgiveness has overwhelmed me, but I don't mind Batman & Robin anymore. In 1997 it was a nightmare, because I had to see dark and brooding Batman....but we have that again with Nolan and Bale, so B&R can be seen as the overblown superhero extravaganza it was always intended to be.

Here's something I've discovered recently; it's actually darker - or atleast more serious - than I thought. Schumacher tells the story with visuals; he doesn't care as much about the dialogue. So whilst a scene may feature endless puns and seem silly to the viewer, Schumacher sees two characters standing in the darkness, and the dialogue is just throwaway. If you watch the film on mute, most of it takes place in the shadows, despite the neon lighting (which is in the background).

There are a lot of gay overtones, but you'd be surprised how many movies have gay overtones - although few as obvious as B&R, admittedly. It's balanced anyway - Poison Ivy is so over-sexualized, and Alicia Silverstone wears mainly a Batgirl costume and a school uniform.

I know a lot of fans watch it and think, "Blasphemy! That's not like the Batman of the comics,".....but B&R is far less silly (I won't use the word camp as it's nearly always mis-used on these boards) than most of the Batman comics of the 40s and 50s.

So if we short-circuit that issue, the question becomes (as it always should be) is it a good movie? It has some wonderful cinematography. There are plenty of shots that are simply awesome. Pacing and editing is far superior to Burton's films. Finally, B&R has plenty of plot (Bruce and Dick falling out, Freeze, Ivy, Bane, Alfred dying, Barbara becomes Batgirl), whereas we all know Burton doesn't like plot. And it all builds to a satisfying climax.

For all it's faults, B&R does tell a story about loss, trust, and protecting our families.

It's not a good film, but it's a decent one.

 

[The Empire Ape]

I like the movie because it's so bizarre. This is art!

 

[CConn]

That's the one thing about both Schumacher movies, for all their faults, both films scripts were fairly solid. The pacing was strong in both, and both had some really fantastic undertones...storywise.

That is, I think, at least one thing a lot of other bad superhero films don't have.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

You know, if you just cut all of the puns out of B&R, it'd be on-par with BF. That's one of the things that bugged me about that "deassified" cut, as it cut more than just the bad out, it cut out the Robin leaving/Alfred dying storylines and I believe Barbara Gordon (No big loss, though)?

 

[Darkest Knight]

No, it isn't a decent film.

Man, reading your posts ... do you ever try to stand out and be different just for the sake of doing so. Either way you cut it, Batman and Robin is a horrendous film. And I'm not speaking on petty terms of their being nipples on the bat-suit, etc.

 

[Catman]

Maybe Spider-Man 3's message of forgiveness has overwhelmed me

Thats what it is!

 

[Kevin Roegele]

No, it isn't a decent film.

Man, reading your posts ... do you ever try to stand out and be different just for the sake of doing so. Either way you cut it, Batman and Robin is a horrendous film. And I'm not speaking on petty terms of their being nipples on the bat-suit, etc.

Okay, I'm glad you're not talking on petty terms....so in what terms do you mean? My point is that if you can look past all the glittery crap, B&R is pretty solid in terms of story-telling, pacing, character arcs which are simple but well defined.

 

[fabman]

I don't think it's solid. It's basically a rip-off of the Batman Forever storyline. Seems like Akiva Goldsman used that as guideline and replaced the characters with Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy & Co. It's a pretty bad movie, the hate for Joel Schumacher was ridiculous to me (c'mon, it's a damn movie and, also, we got a new, amazing one: Batman Begins) but it's really a bad movie. It is what it is, you can't say, if you ignore the puns, etc. They're in it, they're part of it, and if you take them out, you even won't have anything else left.

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

I once posted a blog about B&R and actually got quit afew good remarks about it. I personally never "hated" Batman & Robin. Its not what my particular taste for the Batman character is, but I never slammed it like the masses did. There were alot of aspects I did like about the film, the costumes for one, extravagant as they may have been, those were some amazing pieces of costume work. The sets as well, if you watch the bonus features and see how much work was put into them, you have to give credit. There were some scenes that I really thought were stand out scenes. One in particular was the part where Bruce interacts with Alfred when he is dying. Also the scene where Batman is talking to Freeze when he was defeated, trying to basically "save" Victor from becoming totally lost in his hate and redeem himself by trying save lifes instead of destroying them. There was also alot that i didnt like, but Im not going into all of them. Another thing, I have found that when you talk with "general" people about the Batman movies, B&R seems to be the ones that they remember the most. It could be because it was the most recent of the 4 original films, but also it could be because it was such a spectacle. visualy and musically.

 

[Sloth7d]

No man. Just no.

Few things-
-nipples
-bat skates
-smiling
-crappy batgirl plot

No man. Just no.

 

[Thespiralgoeson]

I'm sorry, but I just can't agree either. Batman & Robin is flat out terrible. The movie and acting was obviously intentionally overly corny, and campy. What I'll never really figure out is... why? I think Schumacher was really trying to evoke the 60's camp-era Batman. It's like the movie isn't a Batman movie at all, but rather an all-out parody of Batman, and comic-based movies in general. And to be perfectly honest with you, that would've been alright too if it was funny. But that's just the problem... the movie wasn't funny.

I think Schumacher really failed with B&R where he had succeeded with Batman Forever. Batman Forever had a good mix of camp/parody and action and drama. The camp factor worked in Forever because the performances were genuinely entertaining, and certain scenes, dialogue, and one-liners were actually funny, and at times witty. (Take Kilmer's first line of the movie, for example. "I'll get drive-thru." Classic.) In Batman Forever, while everything was sort of done with a wink, the acting was at least genuine. I never once got the feeling that the actors weren't taking their roles seriously (even if they completely missed the mark, as was the case with Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face)

Batman & Robin had nothing of the sort. The performances were so ridiculously fake (and this was done intentionally) that I could never for a moment suspend my disbelief and actually enjoy the movie. Take a minute to compare Schwarzenegger's performance as Mr. Freeze to Jim Carrey's performance as the Riddler. Carrey's performance as the Riddler, while a little over-done IMO, was so energetic, that it was pure entertainment to watch, and even exhilerating at times. But Arnold as Mr. Freeze? Doesn't even compare. Arnold had an incredible career as an action hero because he was just so tough and intimidating on screen. But all the badass factor he had going for him was cancelled out because of the overly stupid dialogue. ("A FREEZE IS COMING!!") That was pretty much the problem with all the performances in the movie, with the exception maybe of Chris O'Donnel as Robin. Nothing was taken seriously.

The movie might've worked as an action/comedy if the performances had been genuine, and the humor wasn't completely witless. But that was just the problem. The humor (if you can really call it that) was just stupid. The movie was so jam packed with intentionally stupid gimmicks and one-liners that we can't take a moment of the film seriously, because they're constantly reminding us (again, intentionally) how ridiculous everything is. All the humor in the movie basically consists of Schumacher and the actors telling the audience, "Look at us! Look at how silly and wacky these costumes and characters are!"

I also think it's fair to say the casting was bad. For the record, I don't care what anyone says. Under no circumstances would George Clooney EVER had made a good Batman. EVER! I must've heard at least a thousand times someone say that Clooney would've made a perfect Batman had it been a better movie. WHY?! Because he has a square jaw? No... I don't care how good the movie is. Clooney is an awful Batman. He has neither the inward intensity to convey a serious Batman, or the knack for one-liners to give us a light-hearted Batman. Kilmer got it just right, really. And so did Keaton. Clooney was just a bad choice. Here's a name that I never heard anyone throw out there before; Bruce Campbell. Seriously, think about it. In a movie that tried so hard to evoke the feel of the 60's TV show, I think Bruce Campbell would've been a perfect Batman. He's got the suave, genuinely funny self-mockery and the toughness that the role would require for an all out action/comedy. He's the closest thing to Adam West that would've been young enough for the role at the time.

The movie's one redeeming quality is its visuals. The costumes, sets and backgrounds are truly inspired, and amazing to look at, even if some of us find certain things about them repulsive. And we all know Uma Thurman was lovely to look at. But in the end, even her sex appeal (and god, she had a lot of it in that movie) and all of the other stunning visuals were drowned out by the awful, awful script, and Schumacher constantly telling the actors to act like cartoon characters.

The end result was that the movie utterly, utterly failed as both action and comedy.

 

[CConn]

No man. Just no.

Few things-
-nipples
-bat skates
-smiling
-crappy batgirl plot

No man. Just no.

Those are actually extremely minor and pointless complaints to have about the movie.

If something's going to make you hate a movie, have it be acting, or dialogue, or art direction. All of which were pretty horrible in B&R.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I never caught any gay overtones in B&R.



Anyway, dialogue is 50% of a film. And if we're talking about just putting a film on mute and just watching the visuals, that'd make the new Star Wars movies the greatest things ever created.

 

[Catman]

I don't think it's solid. It's basically a rip-off of the Batman Forever storyline. Seems like Akiva Goldsman used that as guideline and replaced the characters with Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy & Co.

I second that. When I saw Batman & Robin in theaters back in `97 that was the VERY FIRST THING that I noticed. I mean...the movies even start the same. We see Batman getting dressed only with Robin this time. Then, he stands there was the Batmobile takes its sweet ass time to get ready. Then instead of Bruce and Alfred exchanging some jokes its Batman & Robin. I remember sitting there and thinking, "wow! This is Batman Forever all over again." Then I soon realized that I was wrong...sort of. It was like Batman Forever but only 100x worse!

 

[Matt.S99]

as a comic book adaption,this movie was horrible,but to me its the same thing with catwoman,both really stupid but both are fun to watch if you dont look at it as a comic adaption

 

[batmaluco]

The main difference between BF and B&R is the lack of "tormented by his parents death" characteristic.
In BF there was an entire subplot about it. Even if part of it was deleted from the theatrical version, but some still remained.
In B&R there wasn't even a mention at all about that, Batman is no longer haunted by that.
And if you take that from Batman, he becomes just a man dressed like a bat.

But I don't hate it, I think it was just an anachronic 50's or 60's Batman in the end of 90's...

 

[Sloth7d]

Those are actually extremely minor and pointless complaints to have about the movie.

If something's going to make you hate a movie, have it be acting, or dialogue, or art direction. All of which were pretty horrible in B&R.

The nipples, crappy Batgirl plot, and Batmans constant smiling WAS 70% of the movie. I mean look how readily Bruce accepted Batgirl yet was so opposed to having Robin as a sidekick. Look how much Alfred wanted his neice to be a non powered vigilatey who would be putting her life in serious danger with every patrol. Look how instantaneously fast Batgirl knew how to fight crime like anyone can be a superhero by putting on a cape. Having bat nipples in my face for 70% of the time wasn't helping. It disgusted me as a batman fan. And Batmans happy go lucky one year later attitude peeved me too.The ice skates were just the icing on the cake.
I gave that movie a 6. Theres no way I'd ever consider it good. Mediocer at best.

 

[Bat Attack]

For being probably the first person on here to say that, you are the bravest SHH! member ever. I must agree though, I no longer hate the film. I can't live hating it forever so I just appreciate it for what it is. Yes it is campy but so what, Batman Forever was and it was a great film. Although, B&R is a very poor film nevertheless.

 

[The Kid]

Batman and Robin is the best episode of Superfriends I've ever seen

Brave? you call this brave? I made a thread defending ghost rider. That took guts.

 

[CConn]

as a comic book adaption,this movie was horrible,but to me its the same thing with catwoman,both really stupid but both are fun to watch if you dont look at it as a comic adaption

Technically, the tone and spirit of B&R was very close to that of the comics in the early 60s.

Bad puns, over the top villains, and endless gay innuendo is all straight out of the 60s.

 

[Rockbottom]

Its still a movie based off a bad time in comics, which makes it a bad movie. Proof really that not all 'faithful' movies are good.

 

[Bat Attack]

Batman and Robin is the best episode of Superfriends I've ever seen

Brave? you call this brave? I made a thread defending ghost rider. That took guts.

Why are you a troll now? I don't know you.

The 60's show didn't really have much gay innuendo. Infact, when was there any gay innuendo spoken in B&R?

 

[El Payaso]

I stopped hating Batman & Robin too. I'm more focused on the newer poo, Cheeser-man 3.

 

[Road Warrior]

I don't mind Batman & Robin anymore.

Hate is a strong word, so I also no longer hate Batman & Robin but I still think it's a horrible movie!

 

[CConn]

Why are you a troll now? I don't know you.

The 60's show didn't really have much gay innuendo. Infact, when was there any gay innuendo spoken in B&R?

I think a single middle-aged millionaire living with a young boy who runs around in nothing but a pair of green underpants is an innuendo unto itself...