i thought Tony was trying to REEDEEM his mistakes

Discussion in 'Captain America: Civil War' started by 3dman27, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. 3dman27

    3dman27 super-hero wannabe

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    then how come he
    willingly endangered a minor, namely peter parker after all if PETER is a minor in the MCU so is spidey right?
     
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  2. MydnightPhoenix

    MydnightPhoenix Lois Lane --> Leia Lane

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    Tony is the reason I hated this movie.
     
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  3. First Avenger

    First Avenger Well-Known Member

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    It's not like he recruited him to fight Chitauri or Ultron drones,risks for his life were quite low. He needed someone powerful who could immediately be in to contain other heroes without too many questions.
     
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  4. metaphysician

    metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    The answer is the obvious answer: "Just because Tony Stark wants to do something, doesn't mean he doesn't screw up."
     
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  5. AndrewGilkison

    AndrewGilkison Well-Known Member

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    Compared to all the **** Tony did in the Civil War comic to further this agenda what he did here wasn't too bad.
     
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  6. IronManHype

    IronManHype Well-Known Member

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    Tony is the reason I loved this movie.
     
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  7. Iron_Stark

    Iron_Stark Kick names, take ass

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    give me a break, what First Avenger said, it's not like he had him going after murderous robots or aliens, or had him risking his life, all he needed him there was to tie up Cap and co, NOT FIGHT THEM.

    And if it came to blows, he knew Cap and co wouldn't kill anyone.

    This whole "endangering a minor" complaining is stupid. Might as well ask Stan Lee and all the writers at Marvel why they would put Spider-Man was in danger when he first came out, or question why comic Cap put a teen sidekick in danger during WWII or ask DC why they're ok with Batman putting all those Robins in danger.
     
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  8. OcStat

    OcStat Well-Known Member

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    I just bought the film last night so I need to watch it again to see if there is actually anything in the movie that supports this, but...

    If Tony is feeling guilty about a teenager dying in Sokovia, and he finds out a teenager is super powered and throwing themselves in harms way, maybe he feels he an obligation to keep an eye on him?

    And didn't he give Spider-Man a specific role to play in the airport battle? Support, not necessarily offense.
     
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  9. BoredGuy

    BoredGuy Chairman of the Bored

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    It seems that yes, Tony told him to stay out of the way and web people up
    and in the event that he found himself squaring off with someone, Tony told him how to safely neutralize them, i.e. "He said to go for the legs"
    Plus, that was at the point where Tony was still trying to avoid a real fight
     
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  10. BullMcGiveny

    BullMcGiveny Probably Disagree

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    There's a difference between action committed by the writer and those by a character. You can't judge their actions the same.

    Those have their origins being in the 1940s, when comic stories were less mature and society was less sensible in ways.

    They were also endangering kids. Probably why Bucky was retconned into being 17 years old and specifically trained to fight alongside Cap.

    And I haven't read a lot of Batman, but even I've read stories that acknowledge him as endangering kids.

    If you're going for a supposedly mature story, you need to play by the mature rules.

    CW didn't acknowledge anything being wrong about Tony blackmailing Peter into going to Germany, and infact treated it as a source of laughs.
     
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  11. Iron_Stark

    Iron_Stark Kick names, take ass

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    Now Tony blackmailed Peter? :whatever:

    It's not about society being less sensible, but society now being a bunch of overly sensitive pansies that get offended by the color of a coffee cup.

    So for people to complain about Spider-Man being in a fight really isn't all that surprising. Maybe in the next movie we can petition to have Spider-Man go to his "safe space" when the bad guys come and leave the fighting to the adults.
     
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  12. ThePhantasm

    ThePhantasm 2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper

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    everybody says the MCU doesn't have great villains, but Tony is one of the greatest comic book movie villains of all time
     
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  13. BullMcGiveny

    BullMcGiveny Probably Disagree

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    You mean like sensitive pansies who demand the Avengers being regulated because of 20 or so casualties during a crisis?
     
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  14. That9neGuy

    That9neGuy Well-Known Member

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    Despite the fact that they themselves tried to nuke the entire city.
     
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  15. Iron_Stark

    Iron_Stark Kick names, take ass

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    Two completely different things that aren't in the same realm. In real life, yes I would like gun regulations and for people that own them to be responsible for their actions.
     
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  16. BullMcGiveny

    BullMcGiveny Probably Disagree

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    I think they are. Both have to do with responsible behavior.

    Some collateral damage over the course of saving the world is a genre convention. As is kids suiting up to fight crime. We just accept them because that's the genre.

    When you say you're going to challenge themes of accountability of superheros, you can't have a blind spot just in the name of quip-thwip.
     
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  17. metaphysician

    metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    Also, bringing up the Accords isn't the best counterargument, seeing as the Accords wouldn't really change much of anything even with the event that inspired them. Unless, of course, you consider "the heroes don't intervene, because the bureaucrats wouldn't give the go, and thus Evil Villainous Plot happens unopposed" to be a solution. I suppose that would have meant the 20 or so Wakandan diplomats wouldn't have died. Instead, hundreds would die when weaponized Ebola is unleashed.
     
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  18. harryoscop

    harryoscop Well-Known Member

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    Peter: I can't go to Germany.
    Tony: Why?
    Peter: I got Homework, i'm being serious, I can't just drop out of school.
    Tony: Might be a little dangerous, better tell 'Aunt hottie' i'm taking you on a field tri-
    Peter: *Webs Stark's hand* Don't tell Aunt May!


    Yeah, no blackmail involved at all. :shrug:
     
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  19. Jaxon

    Jaxon Well-Known Member

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    Seeing as the Winter Soldier is meant to be a murderous assassin Tony bringing in Peter was stupid. It was clearly a retrofit to get him in there. Early promos had the line ups at the airport perfectly spaced without him then suddenly the line up changed when they cgi'd him in.
    Don't tey to think through the logic of this movie, you'll just hurt yourself.
     
    #19
  20. First Avenger

    First Avenger Well-Known Member

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    It's the opposite,they got him out of promos seeing as he was shooting with the rest of the actors. It wasn't a retrofit at all. And Spider-Man is stronger than Bucky,hell,he was the most powerful character after Wanda and Vision.
     
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  21. TeeKay

    TeeKay Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]


    Because they didn't want to reveal him yet. Same happened with Vision in the first trailer for AoU. Him and the twins are CGI'd out when Thor calls out Ultron. Holland was there on set in costume during the line up sequence and the charging shot.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    :shrug:
     
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  22. First Avenger

    First Avenger Well-Known Member

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    Y u use logic dude
     
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  23. Iron_Stark

    Iron_Stark Kick names, take ass

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    Really? This constitutes as blackmail now?

    Yeah Tony is a real evil manipulative A-hole. :whatever:
     
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  24. Flint Marko

    Flint Marko Bring me Thanos

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    "Blackmail" is when you demand money or property from someone in return for not revealing compromising or injurious information about that person. That didn't happen in any form. Tony's exact quote is:

    "Might be dangerous, but I'm going to tell Aunt hottie that you're going on a field trip...."

    Please explain to me how that's blackmail. Tony never mentions anything about revealing his secret identity or anything malicious to Aunt May, just that he's going on a field trip.

    If you have problems with the character's inclusion then that's fine, but this is not a valid one. To keep insisting that Tony "blackmailed" Peter is looking for problems where there aren't any.

    In regards to putting Peter in danger... remember how he singlehandedly took down Falcon and Winter Soldier, went toe-to-toe with Cap, and figured out how to take down Giant-man? Clearly Tony knew he could hold his own in what was a glorified wrestling match ("my plan was to go easy on them", "do what we discussed, web them up"), and he made the right call.
     
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  25. auditor

    auditor Well-Known Member

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    If were going to criticize tony it should be for trying to kill Bucky at the end. Bucky was a victim and Tony knew it. He was a total villain at that moment. I understand the emotions interfering with his judgement, but there is no reason he shouldn't have eventually realized what he was doing.

    I'm fine with teenage Spider-Man being in danger. I think this will be a big point for Spider-Man throughout these movies. So much responsibility and pain for a kid to carry on his shoulders.

    Plus he's not a normal teenager. If you put him in the ufc he'd wipe the floor with everybody.
     
    #25

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