"I use to think they were missing the point of Batman."

What don't you get?

He makes sense. WB kept saying campier and people didn't like it because of it's dark mood. They wanted the campy 60's Batman, not he 70's-80's Batman that O'Neil and Miller helped remake.

 

Isn't that the same way Nolan did with Batman as he's facing his enemies - as he's in action that is?

 

How ironic. Some fans love complaining that Burton/Schumacher/Nolan/other fans don't understand Batman either.

 

I thought there was enough development of Batman. The scenes where there was development, Keaton wasn't in the costume. Any scene where its just Bruce and/or Alfred, it's really Batman.

And did you happen to notice he said "I use to think..."

 

Watching the Batman Returns special features you really see that Tim Burton didn't nessecarily want to make a Batman movie, but a Tim Burton movie featuring Batman. I still like the movie though.

 

Similar to how Nolan added his touch of reality in Batman Begins.

 

Coming from someone who made the Joker the killer of Bruces parents and Batman a stone cold murderer, Burton was zero room to talk about anyone missing the point of Batman.

 

You think Bruce didn't kill some ninjas at the monastary?

Joker killing Bruce's parents is something called an adaptation. Similar to how Ra's trained Bruce.

 

But Ras training Bruce didnt ruin the story

Joker killing Batmans parents and then Batman killing him did

It took away any motivation that Bruce had at all to be Batman

 

I believe that was the point. It basically asked, "Would Batman trade away his ideals to potentially seal the wound of his parent's deaths by killing the man who killed them?"

It's basically what happened with Chill if he actually finished the job.

 

No. Batman decided to fight crime. Beyond just fight his parents' killer.

Or the same you can say Joe Chill being killed by someone else took away any motivation that Bruce had at all to be Batman.

 

No

Batman is not like Spider-Man, he doesnt help people because hes a good person. He fights crime because hes an emotionally stunted 8 year old who fights all these evil because he can never get the one bad guy he truly wants.

Somone else killing Chill never lets Bruce move on and drives him to be Batman, ala Batman Begins

Batman killing Joker gives him closure and no reason to be Batman, ala Batman

Theres a reson the original franchise is dead. Schumacher finished it, but Burton started it.

 

That's, yes, one possible interpretation. I doubt people with such mental trauma could be that logic to say automatically 'He's dead, I'm cured'. Most probably he would try and find another face for his obsession. And another and another, becauise his obssession would be bigger than the real cause of it.

What do you mean by that? Like saying 'yes, let's blame Richard Donner for Superman IV, he started the whole franchise'?

The only reason the franchise died is because Batman & Robin was awful.

Exact same thing. Adaptation.

 

Nice point

 

Next time you watch Batman Forever pay close attention to the scenes between Bruce & Grayson. It addreses why he never stopped after Napier's death. In one of the scenes he says something to the effect of "what if you kill Harvey? your obsessions won't end there every night you'll go out there looking for another & another".

 

Why do you make everything about Batman Begins?

Are you obsessed?

 

What are you saying? How does a pre-Joker killing the Waynes ruin the story? It added the tension between the two that stories like Death in the Family and Killing Joke made. Just as Begins made Ra's Bruce's only trainer in the 7 years he was gone.

Bruce's motivation was NEVER revenge. His motivations have and always will be that no one ever has to suffer what he did as a child. Chill was killed in Year Two, but Bruce never hung up the cowl because his parents killer was dead.

 

No. I'm just sick of the double-standard with BB fans. They fail to see that Nolan changed Batman as much as Burton.

 

Ra's Bruce's only trainer? I don't think so. It was obvious he had more training than what he learned at the Monastary, but Ra's helped fine-tune it and hone his skills. Ra's was, however, his largest mentor, imo.

 

What I meant was that in the 7 years Bruce was abroad, he only went to 1 place for the training rather than span the globe training from various experts.

 

As opposed to not showing him training at all?

 

Ah. My mistake, then.

 

It was heavily implied that he had different forms of training prior to meeting Ra's. Just like how in the comics he trained with various people. Just because it wasn't shown it doesn't mean that it did not happen.