The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[Artistsean]

Hope the title of the thread isn't a spioler, and if there is already a thread where I could post this let me know and I will.

possible spoiler bellow,


If you've seen the pictures then you know that the Joker has been changed, and his origin has possibly been changed as well.
spoiler about a possible origin change of the Joker:

Spoiler

he may not fall into a vat of acid and may wear make up instead.

Here is the picture the studio released of the Joker:

Spoiler

And if you saw Batman Begins you know that Ras al Ghul was changed as well, and that his origin was changed too.

Spoiler

Ras is changed from a man who has lived for centuries because of the Lazuris Pits, to a more real world criminal who lives and lives by using decoy Ras al Ghuls and passing down his name to an apprentis.

played by Liam Neeson:

Scarecrow was changed too, slightly

Spoiler

from a solo doctor who has a full costume to a doctor who uses a mask and gas to torture patients, and works for Ras al Ghul. Also he mostly would wear a suit because he would just slip on the mask. Although he is still a psycho who experiments on his patients.

Also They have said that Batman (their Batman) would not be in a JLA movie because their version wouldn't fit in. Probably because their version, to them, wouldn't seem right in a world that has super aliens, space cops, magical amazons, and what not. It doesn't fit in with their reality.

So what I am wondering based on how they have changed these two characters is,
How would you have them change any other characters?
In terms of making them more fitting in the Batman Begins/Dark Knight world.
How would you change their costumes? How would you change their backstories?
I guess I am wondering more about how you would change their origins and backstories and parts of their character that make them not fit in the Batman Begins movie world.

Like Mr. Freeze, or Killer Croc?

Spoiler

Would Mr. Freeze's story about cryogenitcs and having to wear a suit to keep him in sub zero temperatures have to be changed because its too unrealistic?
Would Killer Croc have to be changed from a reptile looking guy to a more human looking circus freak guy or something?

 

[The Redux 714]

Killer Croc i could easily see as a boxer who had his face beaten in one too many times, went broke, and decided to make a comback after some back-alley surgury that gives him a slightly-lizard like face. Someone here keeps posting pics of a comic they are drawing, and I like thier design.

Poison Ivy - Not too sure how this one could work..but I'll think about it...

Mr. Freeze - Man who after a freak accident (lots of those going around) requires his body temp to stay at freezing level and has a grudge against...Wayne?

The Riddler - I dont really see him working. Simply because he's not really much of a threat by himself. Now..teamed up with someone...

Other than that, Riddler-meister is pretty much already very realistic.

Catwoman - Theif with a cat theme. You can't get much more ground into reality than that...

Penguin - Short mobster with a big nose that has a thing for fly animals...excepts bats, of course.

The Joker - Falls into a vat of high-concentrated clorene, bleacing his skin white, and dying his hair green. Sure, he'd have to apply the balck around his eyes and red lips, but who's perfect?

Two-Face - Again, as long as people are open to inturpretation, he's not that hard either.

Now, as for making threads about Nolan's "realisim", I'm getting rather sick of it. Listen up peeps...I got a doozy of a story for you...

He (Nolan) is doing whatever he wants, and will make tons of money off of it. The last thing anybody needs is "fans" trying to figure out what this man is PAID to do...

This "realism" debate has gone on far too long. If we got a really "real" Batman movie, we'd have a guy dressed in PJs falling of roofs with a bungee-cord and card-board batarangs. Not to mention he'd be sick all the time; damp caves will do that to ya. Realism fanboys need to shut up and accept what is given to them. Same with these "purists": We got a pure Batman movie..and look what happened? People moaned because it too scary and made ZERO sense. Which is true, if thought about...

STOP WITH THESE THREADS! Or better yet, just make one large thread, and sticky it to the top of the page, call it, "The Realism BullCrap Thread! Think you know what you're talking about? POST IT HERE!" I know we got one already...hmm, why not make it to where posting this sort of thing not in th thread results in a warning or something?

 

[Gianakin_]

The term "realism" and the phrase "gritty, realistic blabla" have been misinterpreted dangerously. I see people getting angry at Nolan just because others use the above word and phrase without thinking too much of it.

 

[The Redux 714]

The term "realism" and the hrase "gritty, realistic blabla" has been misinterpreted dangerously. I see people getting angry at Nolan just because others use the above word and phrase without thinking too much of it.

Like your sig, I'm am digging what Nolan is doing. The fnas, however, are starting to get to me.

 

[Luchastyle]

well there's a difference between "realism" and "grounded in reality." the movie ghostbusters was grounded in reality. but there was no realism to ghostbusters. all you have to do is explain something completely unrealistic using pseudo-science and put it in a realistic environment. and i agree that most people don't understand the difference. and they make ridiculous arguments from both sides. i do like the idea of things being grounded in reality for batman though. it makes it cooler to me.

 

[Gianakin_]

Like your sig, I'm am digging what Nolan is doing. The fnas, however, are starting to get to me.

Agreed, but... what are fnas?

 

[Shabonkerz]

I don't know if I would even introduce either M.r Freeze or Croc into Nolan's Batman movies. There seem way too out there. I mean if Joker's origin doesn't fit Nolan's vision, its way more likely that even the concept of these characters don't fit it.

I think Nolan is very interested in the mob of Gotham and how villains orchestrate through them, and how they influence Batman, the city, the police, and the villains all at once. The Penguin would be a good fit because of this, although Nolan has seen as tricky even for the Penguin. I'm guessing Catwoman will, if at all, appear in the 3rd film only if Rachel Dawes is killed, since she is a love interest. The Riddler might be tricky too, but it could work. How I'm not sure, but he would have to start at Wayne Enterprises R&D. The Mad Hatter I could see in Nolan's work though with a lot of modifications. Not a lot of villains would work with Nolan, because in their comic book form, they are not only really independent but also deformed in unrealistic ways, and they were written for 5 cent comic books that came every month, not the movies.

If Nolan were to introduce a new villain in the 3rd movie, I'd think it would be Roman Sionis, the Black Mask.

 

[Gianakin_]

...Or the Riddler.

 

[Katsuro]

If a certain character couldn't fit without a lot of change, I just wouldn't use them. Take Mr. Freeze for example. Sorry, but I cant see him working in the slightest. A gun that shoots a freezing beam isn't just unrealistic, but kinda silly.

Most other characters could fit pretty easily if you used the right interpretation. That's the thing about most comic book characters, they've been done so many times over the past several decades, there's a handful of different versions. A short fat mobster with a penchant for birds wouldn't be hard to do in Nolan's films, you dont need to go the freak monster angle.

 

[Nepenthes]

Killer Croc. A new spin but still the same old monster. Bear with me.

He's not a hokey cajun or a circus freak or a brainless enforcer. He HAS actually run his own crew in comics before and so he does in this version, running a network of drug dealers and car re-birthers etc, but his main personal interest is in illegal fighting, both man and animal. When we meet him he's BIG and ugly and thugged-out in heavy jewelry, fur coats, gilded guns and knives etc. Think Antwon Mitchell from The Shield except with all the garish trappings of luxury, success and power on display. oh and he kills people with his hands and teeth. Of course he's also little scaly, skin condition, or if it's not too tactless make him an African-American albino for a striking visual. or both. He has diamond-studded teeth, 'scales' tattooed across his arms and the letters CROC across his neck. He's extremely dangerous in a one-to-one. Maybe he fights pitbulls for fun.

That's just the introduction. As Croc becomes more involved in the story we learn from Gordon that Waylon Jones grew up a lonely, scrawny little outcast 'freak' on the streets of Gotham. It becomes obvious why he's so obsessed with his fearsome image and reputation - being 'Croc' is the only way he's survived into adulthood, and indeed, it's what enabled him to to rise to power. In this way he's similair to Burtons Penguin. By cultivating a ruthless, larger-than-life persona he's overcome his inner freak - the frightened, starving lizard-boy - and become one of the most respected players in Gotham. We can imagine he was actually a kind and sensitive kid but his world crushed him and now the monster's risen up and buried him. This vulnerability, self-awareness and self-pity would occasionally shine through on screen, it's important.

Batman understands all this perfectly, having once taken refuge in a monster himself. But unlike Bruce Waylon can only save himself by hurting others, so he has to go.

And now for the fall. Batman chases Croc and corners him where there's no bodyguards, automatic weapons or pet alligators to help him. Batman has already destroyed Crocs fleet of cars, trashed his flashy hangout, frightened away his girls, and now in a filthy back alley Batman strips aways the fancy clothes and the jewels, and in a cruel finishing touch he knocks the diamond-studded teeth from Crocs mouth and taunts him until he's reduced to a pleading quivering wreck. Croc is actually begging Batman to leave him alone. Police find him tied up and humiliated in front of his old stripclub, and they put him in the wagon.

As the cops take him to the station he's completely unraveling. Self-pity turns to rage. He's been stomped, bullied and broken before and this time is no different. He looks through the bars at the smirking cops and this is where the real Croc is born. Powered by primal rage and survival instinct he smashes through the metal grille and rips out the drivers throat with one hand. The second cop pulls his gun, Croc shoots him with it, grabs the keys and emerges from the cage half naked, wild and snarling, his mouth a toothless gummy mess. Onlookers scream and he runs into a sewer tunnel. From here we've got something much closer to the comics.

Maimed corpses are turning up in back alleyways. A jogger at twilight is dragged screaming into the bushes in Gotham Park. Croc's empire, image and reputation is smashed. The veneer of power and respectability is gone. He's back to the old freak-boy surviving on instinct and robbery, except this time he's not so frightened and weak. A dental surgeon is founded maimed in his office, and one of Crocs old girls is picked up wandering in the street, dazed and bloody, Croc having returned to an old hang-out and things turning violent. Batman knows that Croc will leave a trail of bodies as he attempts to muscle his way back into the underworld.

When they eventually meet again, Croc has sharp new metal teeth, studs of metal in his knuckles and elbows (he rose up in streetfighting remember) and he's abandoned all the bling, the superficial image. He doesn't have to act now. When Batman stomps his arse again (although he almost had his face chewed off) Croc doesn't break and cry this time, he's just a snapping beast. Batman says "You could have left, gone somewhere quiet, you'd be left alone. You didn't have to become like this". But Waylon says "Heh. A croc only belongs in the wild". He means the city, the streets, the down and dirty. But then Gordon tranqs his arse and says "yeah, or a zoo". And then the Penguin says 'waugh'

 

[BubbaGump]

Good one, nepenthes.

I think any villain is possible in Nolan's world. Look at Ra's, one of the most mystic characters in Batman's rogue gallery. Take away an element (the Lazarus Pits) and make him a mountain ninja--hey! We get another great interpretation of a character.

In this way, characters such as Mr. Freeze or Poison Ivy are still plausible. Take out an element and add something else and you've got a villain perfectly suitable for a "grounded-in-reality" world.

I think the best example for "realistic" is Gotham Central. They didn't change the outlandishness of villains, just made them operate in a gritty down-to-earth world. They kept Freeze's gun, Poison Ivy was naked and could control plants--but they worked in a realistic setting. It worked, it was great.

Gotham Central FTW!

 

[Artistsean]

Wow, glad this is getting responces. And I am glad that people are actually coming up with ideas and such.
I do agree with the idea that some characters could probably never be used, but I also agree that some characters could be used if they just switched out the far fetched stuff.

A character like Clay Face wouldn't work at all I think, even though he is one of my favorites. But the original version would work, he was an actor (I think) who would put on a clay mask and night and kill people (he was a serial killer who would wear a clay mask). That would work, but it wouldn't be the more popular version of that name.
Man-Bat wouldn't work at all since the basis for his character is mutating into a bat creature and all of that is too far fetched for the Nolan Batman films.

Mr. Freeze I do think would work, just like Ras al Ghul, but how would you change it to make it work? Would you have to switch out the freeze gun and if so what would you replace it with?
I would love to see Christopher Lloyd play him though.

Many characters would work, since they are usually human criminals and sometimes gangsters. But if the Joker had to be changed I think so would many others (tweaked to fit in).
Cat Woman would work, and not have to be changed much or at all I think. She is a trained human (just like Batman) but only on the other side of crime.
Riddler and Panguin would work really well too, especially Panguin. Especially the idea that came later of Panguin running and owning his own night club which he used as a front for illegal activity, meanwhile his night club is THE place to be. I agree that Black Mask would work too.

But on the characters (like Ras) what stuff would you have to change and what would you change it to?
Ras was changed from a guy who is brought back to life using the Lazuris Pit to a name who survives because of decoys and passing down the mantel to another.
I think Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, and a few others would fit into this section.

 

[EagleVision]

It's hard to get a question up here that no one has thought about and you clearly gave this one some thought and it's a good one. Kudos. However, I still have to deal with the way they're doing characters now, in their new realism way instead of appreciating the comic-book fashion. So I'll give you the short answer to your question.

Ask Nolan. (Either that or we'll have to just wait and see)

 

[Artistsean]

I just thought of something else too,
going along with Nolan's more realistic take on all the characters and their stories,
Do you think Batman will ever reach the level he is at in the comics now?
I mean do you think he will be someone who knows exactly how long he can hold his breath, someone who has a fall back plan for most situations and someone who has an emergency plan for taking down any superhero (not that he will meet any, but would that be in his character)?
Do you think Nolan will make him the most dangerous human on the planet (like in the Batman cartoons and comics)?

Poison Ivy, I think, would have to be changed. Maybe make her an eco terrorist/ crime boss or something. Same character, same goals, but cut out the part where she controls plants.

Robin wouldn't work either, and they have stated that he wont be included. The concept of Batman having a child as a partner (or any partner) is unrealistic. And was only used originaly to bring in young readers. So His character wouldn't work in the movies.

where as Two-Face, I think, goes in the catagory of Nolan's reality with characters like Catwoman. He fits perfectly.
Two-Face is just a normal human, no real training in fighting or anything. He is a normal human who is scarred, (and hopefully had a life of abuse and pain that caused him to create a multiple personality), and then becomes a mob boss.
(I hppe they include the idea that he, Gordon, and Batman were all friends.)
I think, like Catwoman, Two-Face can be transfered to Nolan's Batman without any changes.

 

[BubbaGump]

A character like Clay Face wouldn't work at all I think, even though he is one of my favorites. But the original version would work, he was an actor (I think) who would put on a clay mask and night and kill people (he was a serial killer who would wear a clay mask). That would work, but it wouldn't be the more popular version of that name.

Yeah, I'm getting a Texas Chainsaw/Halloween vibe from that. I don't like it.

Man-Bat

wouldn't work at all since the basis for his character is mutating into a bat creature and all of that is too far fetched for the Nolan Batman films.

I wouldn't use Man-Bat in a film anyway.

Mr. Freeze

I do think would work, just like Ras al Ghul, but how would you change it to make it work? Would you have to switch out the freeze gun and if so what would you replace it with?
I would love to see Christopher Lloyd play him though.

Taking the gun away would be like getting rid of the Batsuit.

Many characters would work, since they are usually human criminals and sometimes gangsters. But if the Joker had to be changed I think so would many others (tweaked to fit in).
Cat Woman would work, and not have to be changed much or at all I think. She is a trained human (just like Batman) but only on the other side of crime.
Riddler and Panguin would work really well too, especially Panguin. Especially the idea that came later of Panguin running and owning his own night club which he used as a front for illegal activity, meanwhile his night club is THE place to be. I agree that Black Mask would work too.

Can't disagree there.

 

[BubbaGump]

Yeah, I don't know why the character names were seperated in quotes.

 

[Nepenthes]

The only character that can't be done is Man-Bat. Otherwise the main issue is whether an adapted character remains interesting enough to include over someone else. I love Poison Ivy but I'd much rather see a realistic version of Firefly, Freeze or Croc before her. She'd be great for a drama/thriller but not so much action, so she's automatically a third tier villain eg Falcone. There's also the isue of overlap: a villain like Black Mask is too thematically similar to Penguin and Two-Face to warrant his adaption.


Firefly could be a very striking and memorable enforcer type, a particularly dangerous match for Batman. He begins as a career arsonist who becomes too reckless for the mob to trust. They want someone they think they can control, someone who doesn't hang around the crime scene to 'see visions' in the flames. They send hitmen to his house but Firefly is prepared: the house is booby trapped and half a dozen hitmen are cooked alive but Firefly is protected by his fancy little suit. He can now stand in the midst of his own infernos.

I'd include a primitive jet pack, maybe just for short bursts of flight and possibly retractable glider wings just keep the look. But more importantly he's extremely fast and agile, flitting about, twirling streams of fire, vanishing, appearing. Apart from specialized flamethrowers he's also fond of booby traps and flashbulbs. He has the look of a hi-tech ninja, full body cover and he also uses lights as a decoy. Batman sees a flicker in the darkness, think it's Firefly, heads over and gets torched.

After he falls out from the mob he's recruited by another villain, Penguin, Two-Face etc and goes about waging war. Firefly sees destruction as part of the natural order. Like movie Ra's he gets a kick out of hastening the demise of that which cannot be saved. Batman, naturally, disagrees. I haven't thought to hard about it but if anyone can think of good parallels/dynamic for Firefly and Batman, I'd be interested.

looks similair to this


I have an idea for Freeze that takes away the cold suit but is particularly chilling and true to character. Very noir thriller. Will post later. Also Clayface without the exaggerated shapeshifting.

 

[Artistsean]

I'd love to hear them.
Nolan's version of Batman sort of reminds me of Ultimate Batman, using Marvels Ultimates [Avengers] method to make characters more realistic.
I don't know if Mr. Freeze works without his freeze suit or (maybe without his gun though). But I would love to read your idea.
I like your idea for Firefly. Sounds cool, he could be one of the enforcer bad guys (like Scarecrow in the first film). I'd also like to read your Clayface idea.
I think Riddler and Panguin and especially Catwoman would fit the best in the coming sequals (that I hope Nolan makes after part 3).
Catwoman can be put into Nolan's Batman world without any changes.
She would make sence in terms of story telling too, she is like Bruce (I think even her past is a little like his) but she is on the opposite side of the law that he is.
I would want them to use this costume though, makes the most sence to me.

But she is a character that would require the least amount of change.
I would like to see them use Riddler and make him a man with Obsessive Compulsive Dissorder who feels compelled to leave clues at crime scenes.

or go with Panguin being a regular criminal crime boss who has worked is way into high society. He owns and runs a night club, the place the rich must go to be seen (even Bruce Wayne), and he also uses that place as a front for his crime, and often uses the club for the criminal acts (like robbery, extorsion, and luandering money, even murder.) Panguin's story could be film nior and show the old time Hollywood side of Gothem.

Even if they don't do another Batman Nolan film after part 3 I hope they still show some art and designs and stories for what they would have done with other characters.

 

[Matt.S99]

Ivy- I dont want her to have any ''plant powers''. Just a regular lady working at some flower related business who has something against both batman and bruce wayne(break up or something? lol jk). So basically she just creates harmful chemicals from different plant parts and tries to go after batman.

Her looks would be something simple, maybe a green dress? not too sure about that

 

[SodaPop]

For the penguin have it be a british arms dealer who gets his operation shut down by batman and seeks revenge and has a fetish for the little birds that wear tuxes. He could be a regular sized guy who carries an umbrella(but no umbrella weapons) and is bent on revenge.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Ivy- I dont want her to have any ''plant powers''. Just a regular lady working at some flower related business who has something against both batman and bruce wayne(break up or something? lol jk). So basically she just creates harmful chemicals from different plant parts and tries to go after batman.

Her looks would be something simple, maybe a green dress? not too sure about that

Yeah, Ivy should just be a florist who wears a green dress.

And while we're at it, let's just make Mr. Freeze an Ice cream man who kills people out of his ice cream truck. Oh and Clay Face can simply be a man who wears prosthetics and robs a revlon chemical factory.


Would Nolan honestly EVER stoop that low? Batman facing a florist?

 

[MAKIEVELLI]

Killer Croc. A new spin but still the same old monster. Bear with me.

He's not a hokey cajun or a circus freak or a brainless enforcer. He HAS actually run his own crew in comics before and so he does in this version, running a network of drug dealers and car re-birthers etc, but his main personal interest is in illegal fighting, both man and animal. When we meet him he's BIG and ugly and thugged-out in heavy jewelry, fur coats, gilded guns and knives etc. Think Antwon Mitchell from The Shield except with all the garish trappings of luxury, success and power on display. oh and he kills people with his hands and teeth. Of course he's also little scaly, skin condition, or if it's not too tactless make him an African-American albino for a striking visual. or both. He has diamond-studded teeth, 'scales' tattooed across his arms and the letters CROC across his neck. He's extremely dangerous in a one-to-one. Maybe he fights pitbulls for fun.

That's just the introduction. As Croc becomes more involved in the story we learn from Gordon that Waylon Jones grew up a lonely, scrawny little outcast 'freak' on the streets of Gotham. It becomes obvious why he's so obsessed with his fearsome image and reputation - being 'Croc' is the only way he's survived into adulthood, and indeed, it's what enabled him to to rise to power. In this way he's similair to Burtons Penguin. By cultivating a ruthless, larger-than-life persona he's overcome his inner freak - the frightened, starving lizard-boy - and become one of the most respected players in Gotham. We can imagine he was actually a kind and sensitive kid but his world crushed him and now the monster's risen up and buried him. This vulnerability, self-awareness and self-pity would occasionally shine through on screen, it's important.

Batman understands all this perfectly, having once taken refuge in a monster himself. But unlike Bruce Waylon can only save himself by hurting others, so he has to go.

And now for the fall. Batman chases Croc and corners him where there's no bodyguards, automatic weapons or pet alligators to help him. Batman has already destroyed Crocs fleet of cars, trashed his flashy hangout, frightened away his girls, and now in a filthy back alley Batman strips aways the fancy clothes and the jewels, and in a cruel finishing touch he knocks the diamond-studded teeth from Crocs mouth and taunts him until he's reduced to a pleading quivering wreck. Croc is actually begging Batman to leave him alone. Police find him tied up and humiliated in front of his old stripclub, and they put him in the wagon.

As the cops take him to the station he's completely unraveling. Self-pity turns to rage. He's been stomped, bullied and broken before and this time is no different. He looks through the bars at the smirking cops and this is where the real Croc is born. Powered by primal rage and survival instinct he smashes through the metal grille and rips out the drivers throat with one hand. The second cop pulls his gun, Croc shoots him with it, grabs the keys and emerges from the cage half naked, wild and snarling, his mouth a toothless gummy mess. Onlookers scream and he runs into a sewer tunnel. From here we've got something much closer to the comics.

Maimed corpses are turning up in back alleyways. A jogger at twilight is dragged screaming into the bushes in Gotham Park. Croc's empire, image and reputation is smashed. The veneer of power and respectability is gone. He's back to the old freak-boy surviving on instinct and robbery, except this time he's not so frightened and weak. A dental surgeon is founded maimed in his office, and one of Crocs old girls is picked up wandering in the street, dazed and bloody, Croc having returned to an old hang-out and things turning violent. Batman knows that Croc will leave a trail of bodies as he attempts to muscle his way back into the underworld.

When they eventually meet again, Croc has sharp new metal teeth, studs of metal in his knuckles and elbows (he rose up in streetfighting remember) and he's abandoned all the bling, the superficial image. He doesn't have to act now. When Batman stomps his arse again (although he almost had his face chewed off) Croc doesn't break and cry this time, he's just a snapping beast. Batman says "You could have left, gone somewhere quiet, you'd be left alone. You didn't have to become like this". But Waylon says "Heh. A croc only belongs in the wild". He means the city, the streets, the down and dirty. But then Gordon tranqs his arse and says "yeah, or a zoo". And then the Penguin says 'waugh'

That is beautiful. Seriously. I don't know what it is, but you've got it. Since you seem to have a talent for storytelling, try something for Freeze and the Riddler please. That is really, really good.

 

[Victarion]

Short and sweet for Freeze: A weapons expert who resorts to cryogenics to keep his wife Nora alive. In order to pay the bills, he hires himself out as a hitman for the highest bidder. Rather than conventional weaponry, he utilizes the cryogenics in the form of a "Freeze gun". A quick and clean kill.

-Morzan

 

[Artistsean]

What if Mr. Freeze had a high tech freeze gun but wasn't in a cryogenic suit?
Or
What if Mr. Freeze had a cryogenitc suit (maybe no gun) but his suit wasn't a high tech armor, but more like a insulating space suit material type suit?
He could still have his bubble helmet. What that work for anyone or not? I have a feeling thats going to far into realism. Its easy to get carried away turning a far out there character human, but Nolan's bad guys still have a sci fi super bad guy edge to them.
What would be acceptable to change and what wouldn't? (for any character, not just Mr. Freeze.)
Like would you not accept Clayface not being made of clay? Or would you not accept Killer Croc not looking like a reptile human?
What about the Vantriloquest? Or Poison Ivy or Catwoman?

How much realism on a character would you accept, and how little?

The only character that can't be done is Man-Bat. Otherwise the main issue is whether an adapted character remains interesting enough to include over someone else. I love Poison Ivy but I'd much rather see a realistic version of Firefly, Freeze or Croc before her. She'd be great for a drama/thriller but not so much action, so she's automatically a third tier villain eg Falcone. There's also the isue of overlap: a villain like Black Mask is too thematically similar to Penguin and Two-Face to warrant his adaption.


Firefly could be a very striking and memorable enforcer type, a particularly dangerous match for Batman. He begins as a career arsonist who becomes too reckless for the mob to trust. They want someone they think they can control, someone who doesn't hang around the crime scene to 'see visions' in the flames. They send hitmen to his house but Firefly is prepared: the house is booby trapped and half a dozen hitmen are cooked alive but Firefly is protected by his fancy little suit. He can now stand in the midst of his own infernos.

I'd include a primitive jet pack, maybe just for short bursts of flight and possibly retractable glider wings just keep the look. But more importantly he's extremely fast and agile, flitting about, twirling streams of fire, vanishing, appearing. Apart from specialized flamethrowers he's also fond of booby traps and flashbulbs. He has the look of a hi-tech ninja, full body cover and he also uses lights as a decoy. Batman sees a flicker in the darkness, think it's Firefly, heads over and gets torched.

After he falls out from the mob he's recruited by another villain, Penguin, Two-Face etc and goes about waging war. Firefly sees destruction as part of the natural order. Like movie Ra's he gets a kick out of hastening the demise of that which cannot be saved. Batman, naturally, disagrees. I haven't thought to hard about it but if anyone can think of good parallels/dynamic for Firefly and Batman, I'd be interested.

looks similair to this


I have an idea for Freeze that takes away the cold suit but is particularly chilling and true to character. Very noir thriller. Will post later. Also Clayface without the exaggerated shapeshifting.

Just thought of another idea for Firefly,
When he takes off his fire proof helmet and goggles his face should be scarred (and weathered) from burn marks and exposure to heat.

 

[Nepenthes]

^ Yeah I considered that too, it IS in the comics after all. But it's also kinda predictable and overdone, another disfigured villain whose physicality reflects their gimmick. It should have never happened in the comics I think.




Anyway, I actually had to use Google to dig this up...buried in the Batsuit thread....Mr.Freeze beaten with the realism hammer. At the time I posted it people were complaining that every Freeze story was the same; he basically whinges about his wife and then zaps people, and it was getting boring...


"Here's my idea for a heavily toned-down Freeze that would actually be pretty damn grim, bringing out the best of his story. He doesn't have to be a one-note character crying over the death of his wife, instead, make him a relatively normal guy conflicted over the fcked up things he has to do to save her. His wife is in an illegal and experimental cryo-stasis, however in this version it's in a dingy clandestine bunker instead of some nice shiny hi-tech lab. A cure for her disease is now available.... but because the cryo-process was imperfect he doesn't know how to bring her out without leaving brain damage. He needs to experiment on other living patients, and he needs a steady supply.

The scientist makes a deal with a criminal enterprise to dispose of their mob victims as long as they're delivered to him alive. Maybe the mob try to blackmail him into when they discover his secret bunker or something. Either way, it's mutually beneficial; when the 'experiments' eventually become corpses the freezing process will confuse police examiners to the time of death, thwarting investigation. So now you've got a terrified and desperate scientist freezing people alive in a dark little basement and ultimately committing murder for his wife. He's tortured by it but he has no choice. Eventually the mob boss decides the scientist will probably collapse under the strain of such depravity and confess to the police, so he sends hitmen along to get him. But the scientist is as clever as he is paranoid, and the hitmen never return. He devices a weapon to fend of the inevitable reprisals that will follow.

The reason he uses this special 'Liquid Ice' pump is because it doesn't kill on contact. Victims become slow and collapse into a frozen unconsciousness, thus preserving them for experiments. Previously on the first attack against the hitmen the scientist used regular dry ice, the kind that exists in the real world. This stuff is deadly, it kills on contact so it's no good. At this point he needs to go out and proactively target his enemies instead of waiting for them to send hitmen to his bunker, endangering the safety of his wife. He'll wipe them out until they agree to leave him alone, but while he's killing them he may as well get paid for it...so here's the opportunity for an alliance with a rival mob. The desperate scientist becomes reluctant assassin: he doesn't doesn't belong in this seedy world and it begins to eat his soul. Also, he knows not to make the same mistake twice....to preserve his identity among his new cohorts he wears a full body thermal suit, the one he wears to keep warm when working in his refrigerated bunker. He looks like a ghostly spaceman, they dub him "Mr.Freeze".

When Batman eventually clues his way to Freeze's bunker he's attacked by mindless, vicious freeze-zombies! They're the brain damaged survivors of the process who are now subservient to the scientist. He encases Batman in a layer of ice, his ruined armour protects him but he's numb, slow and clumsy, making it hard to avoid blows from an icepick. Freeze tries to apologise for what he's doing, crying as he lays on blows. When he's finally sent to Blackgate Bruce Wayne pays for an in-house cryolab so the repentant scientist can continue researching how to save his wife, along with the victims that are still frozen alive."