BvS IF Christian Bale returns as Batman...

[BH/HHH]

The dialogue between Bruce and John Blake in John's patrol car about how Batman can be anybody was weird to me

It was weird to me too man, I really didn't get that aspect of Rises. Then Nolan says that he always wanted it to be Batman could be anybody. ******** because that's never even a theme or idea until the third film.

 

[BatLobster]

Um, not to start a Rises debate in here...but yes it was. The idea of becoming "more than just a man" was established pretty early in Begins. The idea of wanting to inspire people.

When he tells Blake that in the car, he's not saying "oh anybody can just do what I do". He's saying the POINT was for Gotham to realize that a hero could be anyone...it could've been any Gothamite out there fighting for them. The point was basically to restore Gotham's faith in good/humanity. Anonymity helped add to the mystique of that.

I doubt the announcement and press release was slapped together. Honestly seems like something that has been in the works behind the scenes, but I digress. I just think Mayimbe knows that saying stuff like this will get us talking about it. That's why it gets on my nerves. A few days ago it was 100% sure Bale wouldn't return after Comic-Con, now it's 99.9%? I'm not necessarily just talking about you but that goes for others here as well.

We've spent a long time in the past discussing how Bale would return if they had a WF movie, and now they finally announce that there will be a new Batman, yet we're still on the Bale possibility when rumor man Mayimbe sparks it up. WB has told us the sky is blue when some think there's a chance it could be red. Even for discussion's sake, it's still redundant and we should have moved past this a while ago. But I'm done, discuss away.

You're probably right and I've said pretty much what I wanted to say on the matter.

 

[shauner111]

They've officially said it would be a new Batman. This is not Bale or Nolan saying it. Part of the official press release for WF:



It's not a slight possibility. Not going to happen. But okay.

A while ago we all got used to the fact that Bale wouldn't be returning, and now because of Mayimbe's rumor, we're "entertaining the possbility" again? How much sense does that make? Let's face the facts.

Yes, but ElMay has been on point. He said theyre entertaining the idea again. Plans change. Bale could also be playing a new Batman too. We don't know any facts. People lie all the time. Cavill said at comic con that he had no idea about a batman/superman movie, then it was announced that day.

 

[Deserana]

Yeah that was definitely a theme brought up in Begins and developed throughout the trilogy, finally reaching its payoff with Blake.

 

[MrMaooz]

Let's not get cheeky here, Maooz.

I see what you did there...and I like awlawt.

 

[Dusty_Lane]

WB has told us the sky is blue when some think there's a chance it could be red. QUOTE]

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Yes, but ElMay has been on point. He said theyre entertaining the idea again. Plans change. Bale could also be playing a new Batman too. We don't know any facts. People lie all the time. Cavill said at comic con that he had no idea about a batman/superman movie, then it was announced that day.

WB has laid out the facts for us in the official press release. Those are the facts at this point in time. Mayimbe has set up a rumor about what he's "heard". Now compare the rumor to WB's official press release. I would understand if WB never specified on whether or not it would be a new Batman, but they outright said it. No one is lying about that when it's on an official press release. Why would they lie about that anyway? They realize how profitable Bale would be as Batman so they wouldn't lie about it for the sake of a surprise. They would just say that Bale is returning. I mean, c'mon. Really? These are delusions of grandeur.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

This argument should have died with Comic-Con. Sweet lawd. It's like a constant tug-o-war here, I swear.

I see what you did there...and I like awlawt.

*In my Austin Powers voice* I thank you!

*

 

[BH/HHH]

Um, not to start a Rises debate in here...but yes it was. The idea of becoming "more than just a man" was established pretty early in Begins. The idea of wanting to inspire people.

When he tells Blake that in the car, he's not saying "oh anybody can just do what I do". He's saying the POINT was for Gotham to realize that a hero could be anyone...it could've been any Gothamite out there fighting for them. The point was basically to restore Gotham's faith in good/humanity. Anonymity helped add to the mystique of that.

I see the whole symbol stuff yeah but that to me doesn't translate to anyone can be Batman for me, it's Bruce's journey he has the motive and he works hard to get there.

To be honest though Nolan's Bruce isn't really bruce to me. Bruce shouldn't want to quit at any opportunity he gets, letting someone else take the mantle. That's not Bruce Wayne to me and I think that version only started in TDK, I don't think it's there in Begins.

Don't get me wrong the Nolan trilogy is quality but those aspects bug me and I don't think the 3rd film sits that well alongside the other two, it seems out if place to me as one reason is the anybody can be Batman stuff.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I see the whole symbol stuff yeah but that to me doesn't translate to anyone can be Batman for me, it's Bruce's journey he has the motive and he works hard to get there. Bruce shouldn't want to quit at any opportunity he gets, letting someone else take the mantle. That's not Bruce Wayne to me and I think that version only started in TDK, I don't think it's there in Begins.

I agree.

Honestly I don't think that's what Nolan first intended to do when he brought up the "symbol" thing in Batman Begins. The symbol talk has always been a part of Batman. I think Rises is when they first got the idea that Batman could be anybody.

 

[BH/HHH]

I agree.

Honestly I don't think that's what Nolan first intended to do when he brought up the "symbol" thing in Batman Begins. The symbol talk has always been apart of Batman. I think Rises is when they first got the idea that Batman could be anybody.

Yes agreed

I love Bale but I think it's time to move on and give us a true Batman that doesn't want to quit all the time. Infact I feel if Bale's Bruce had met Superman before Rises he'd have quit anyway knowing Supey could handle it all.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Yes agreed

I love Bale but I think it's time to move on and give us a true Batman that doesn't want to quit all the time. Infact I feel if Bale's Bruce had met Superman before Rises he'd have quit anyway knowing Supey could handle it all.

I know some people here love that Bruce moved on with his life in TDKR, but when has Batman ever really wanted to quit like that? Batman is Bruce's true self. It is what gives him his true purpose and drive in life, not being Bruce Wayne. I just don't understand.

 

[BH/HHH]

I know some people here love that Bruce moved on with his life in TDKR, but when has Batman ever really wanted to quit like that? Batman is Bruce's true self. It is what gives him his true purpose and drive in life, not being Bruce Wayne. I just don't understand.

Yeah and people use the Dark Knight Returns as an example but the guy was hitting old age when he quit in that. Even after that he still came back.

 

[Dusty_Lane]

I know some people here love that Bruce moved on with his life in TDKR, but when has Batman ever really wanted to quit like that? .

Batman Returns.....Batman Forever.....Mask of the Phantasm......Knightfall.....The Dark Knight Returns.....need I go on?

 

[shauner111]

WB has laid out the facts for us in the official press release. Those are the facts at this point in time. Mayimbe has set up a rumor about what he's "heard". Now compare the rumor to WB's official press release. I would understand if WB never specified on whether or not it would be a new Batman, but they outright said it. No one is lying about that when it's on an official press release. Why would they lie about that anyway? They realize how profitable Bale would be as Batman so they wouldn't lie about it for the sake of a surprise. They would just say that Bale is returning. I mean, c'mon. Really? These are delusions of grandeur.

Let me put it this way. Ill use Skyfall as an example. Let's say Daniel Craig was done after Skyfall and they said they would reinvent Bond, even with a press release and then Craig wanted back in or one of the producers contacted him one more time before the script for the sequel was written. They would sign a deal with Craig in a heartbeat. This is even bigger than that because Bale's Batman has made like over 2 billion dollars in 3 films. Im sorry but if Bale asked to be a part of it after their "press release" you can bet your life that they'll sign him back. There wont even be a thought.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Yeah and people use the Dark Knight Returns as an example but the guy was hitting old age when he quit in that. Even after that he still came back.

Exactly. And in Batman Beyond he was still Batman in old age and only quit because his health had deteriorated so much he had to stop. It's never a choice when he quits. Even when he's not Batman, he's Batman. He never loses it, if you know what I mean.

 

[Dusty_Lane]

Yeah and people use the Dark Knight Returns as an example but the guy was hitting old age when he quit in that. Even after that he still came back.

He was about 45 when he first quit. At the beginning of Dark Knight Returns he was said to have been retired for ten years. Bruce was 55 in that story.

 

[BH/HHH]

Batman Returns.....Batman Forever.....Mask of the Phantasm......Knightfall.....The Dark Knight Returns.....need I go on?

When did he want to quit in Batman Returns?

Forever ok I'll give you that one.

MOTP was before he became Batman so that doesn't really count, he wasn't fully into the mission. Knightfall? He's forced to quit he doesn't quit by choice he gets his back broken. What's he supposed to do fight in a wheelchair? Also he always intends to return that's why he starts to rebuild himself.

As I said above, he's old when he quits in TDK and he quits through tragedy, he thinks he's responsible for Jason dying and he doesnt really want to quit so much ashe feels he has too. Even then he still can't stay away cause he inevitably Returns.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Let me put it this way. Ill use Skyfall as an example. Let's say Daniel Craig was done after Skyfall and they said they would reinvent Bond, even with a press release and then Craig wanted back in or one of the producers contacted him one more time before the script for the sequel was written. They would sign a deal with Craig in a heartbeat. This is even bigger than that because Bale's Batman has made like over 2 billion dollars in 3 films. Im sorry but if Bale asked to be a part of it after their "press release" you can bet your life that they'll sign him back. There wont even be a thought.

Did that really happen with Skyfall, though? If not, I don't see it as a valid argument. I understand that if Bale said he wanted to return, WB would probably want to do it because he's very profitable. But he's said he doesn't want to, and WB has officially announced it would be a new Batman. All of these "ifs" and "buts" just don't count and get peoples' hopes up for something that just won't happen. Trying to debate a rumor against a fact just doesn't work.

 

[BH/HHH]

He was about 45 when he first quit. At the beginning of Dark Knight Returns he was said to have been retired for ten years. Bruce was 55 in that story.

And 45 isn't considered old for a human being fighting crime? Cause I'd say it us and he quits through tragedy not because he wants to quit.

Exactly. And in Batman Beyond he was still Batman in old age and only quit because his health had deteriorated so much he had to stop. It's never a choice when he quits. Even when he's not Batman, he's Batman. He never loses it, if you know what I mean.

Yes, you get it man I actually think Beyond did it best.

 

[Deserana]

I know its Bruce in TDKR who gets the moaning from fans but Bruce also wanted to quit in TDK and he was certainly never a man who felt like he'd be Batman for his whole life in BB. Bruce was more than happy to step down in TDK cause of Dent.

In Nolan's version Batman was simply a stage of Bruce's life that he just couldn't overcome. That is clear throughout the trilogy and is not tagged on in TDKR. It is a different way to approach the character. And having Bruce finally get away from Batman gives the story an ending.

 

[BatLobster]

I see the whole symbol stuff yeah but that to me doesn't translate to anyone can be Batman for me, it's Bruce's journey he has the motive and he works hard to get there.

To be honest though Nolan's Bruce isn't really bruce to me. Bruce shouldn't want to quit at any opportunity he gets, letting someone else take the mantle. That's not Bruce Wayne to me and I think that version only started in TDK, I don't think it's there in Begins.

Don't get me wrong the Nolan trilogy is quality but those aspects bug me and I don't think the 3rd film sits that well alongside the other two, it seems out if place to me as one reason is the anybody can be Batman stuff.

It's interesting how often that line gets reversed to "Anybody can be Batman" when in the movie it's "Batman could be anyone". There's a HUGE difference in meaning between the two lines. I think people just let the fact that they are foreshadowing Blake's fate there distract from the true meaning of that line. Bruce is describing his intentions and talking from Gotham's point of view...he's saying to all of Gotham, Batman could've been anyone.

That is not the same as saying, "Anybody can do it, it's easy!". People seem to interpret the line that way but that's not what it's about at all.

Also, in Begins Alfred asks Bruce how long he'll be back in Gotham and Bruce says, "As long as it takes to show the people of Gotham their city doesn't belong to the criminals and the corrupt." You'll hear Nolan talking about Bruce viewing his mission as a finite endeavor if you look up Begins-era interviews.

Just some minor pet peeves with me. I think it's fine if people don't care for an interpretation of Bruce Wayne that sees a possible way out for himself from the beginning, but don't throw the other movies under the bus and give Begins a pass. This is the way Nolan envisioned the character from the start. Of course since it was Bruce's early days as Batman in BB, it felt like there was a long road ahead so we accepted him as the Batman of the comics. But it was never the case. Begins even ends on a note of Rachel telling him "One day when Gotham no longer needs Batman, we can be together."

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Batman Returns.....Batman Forever.....Mask of the Phantasm......Knightfall.....The Dark Knight Returns.....need I go on?

Yes and everytime he quits he is compelled to return to his true self as Batman. That is the point. Nolan's TDKR presented it like a happy ending end-all-be-all once he's done being Batman. No idea about Knightfall, though. Can't speak on that one.

And using Batman Forever as a valid source? They've already f**ked up Batman so much in that movie to the point where it just doesn't work as defense. Batman Forever didn't ***** up Batman but it's in the same boat as the Nolan movies. A filmmaker's individual interpretation.

 

[shauner111]

I know some people here love that Bruce moved on with his life in TDKR, but when has Batman ever really wanted to quit like that? Batman is Bruce's true self. It is what gives him his true purpose and drive in life, not being Bruce Wayne. I just don't understand.

He's wanted to quit many times, Nolan just gave him his happy ending because it's film and a different interpretation that can allow this kind of ending. Comics simply don't allow it. Again, film is different from the source material obviously. Things can be changed. Nothing is wrong with that. It's about presenting fresh stories, not always ending every single Batman movie for the next 200 years with Bats on a ledge somewhere.

But for people who hate the idea, Bale returning in Bats/Supes should be something that eases your frustrations.

 

[Dusty_Lane]

When did he want to quit in Batman Returns?

Forever ok I'll give you that one.

MOTP was before he became Batman so that doesn't really count, he wasn't fully into the mission. Knightfall? He's forced to quit he doesn't quit by choice he gets his back broken. What's he supposed to do fight in a wheelchair? Also he always intends to return that's why he starts to rebuild himself.

As I said above, he's old when he quits in TDK and he quits through tragedy, he thinks he's responsible for Jason dying and he doesnt really want to quit so much ashe feels he has too. Even then he still can't stay away cause he inevitably Returns.

Batman Returns....

Mask of the Phantasm.....after Andrea and Bruce consummate their relationship after years apart, Alfred asks Bruce "Might one ask what this bolds for your alter ego?" Bruce says "I'm not sure Alfred. Everything is happening so fast. Maybe after this is settled....maybe then...."

Knightfall.....after Bruce is able to walk again Tim Drake sets out to find him. At first Bruce is rejecting the idea because he's ready to move on with his life as Bruce Wayne until Tim Drake tells him of Jean Paul Valley's decent into madness caused by the Order of St. Dumas. Even after he returned from that he went on another break to reevaluate his life while Dick took up the mantle ever so briefly.