BvS IF Christian Bale returns as Batman...

[I'm Venom]

If he isn't in the film, this just proves a complete lack of coherance between all the DC films at this point. This is where Marvel is making more effort to make commitments.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I know its Bruce in TDKR who gets the moaning from fans but Bruce also wanted to quit in TDK and he was certainly never a man who felt like he'd be Batman for his whole life in BB. Bruce was more than happy to step down in TDK cause of Dent.

In Nolan's version Batman was simply a stage of Bruce's life that he just couldn't overcome. That is clear throughout the trilogy and is not tagged on in TDKR. It is a different way to approach the character. And having Bruce finally get away from Batman gives the story an ending.

It does give the story an ending. Which is why I'm ready to move on. I didn't personally have a problem with it in TDK because by the end, he was still Batman.

 

[shauner111]

Did that really happen with Skyfall, though? If not, I don't see it as a valid argument. I understand that if Bale said he wanted to return, WB would probably want to do it because he's very profitable. But he's said he doesn't want to, and WB has officially announced it would be a new Batman. All of these "ifs" and "buts" just don't count and get peoples' hopes up for something that just won't happen. Trying to debate a rumor against a fact just doesn't work.

It's extremely valid because it's just the facts of how the business works. It's a business first and foremost. If the script hasn't begun and Goyers only done an outline, even with a press release that jus says the "Batman hasn't been cast"...that means nothing if Bale walks into a room. Im sorry but everything changes right there. Start from scratch and go through the risk with a new guy is only happening because they're forced to. Their 2.5 billion dollar Batman wants back in...and then yes...he's back in. No debates. It's a done deal.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Batman Returns....

Mask of the Phantasm.....after Andrea and Bruce consummate their relationship after years apart, Alfred asks Bruce "Might one ask what this bolds for your alter ego?" Bruce says "I'm not sure Alfred. Everything is happening so fast. Maybe after this is settled....maybe then...."

Knightfall.....after Bruce is able to walk again Tim Drake sets out to find him. At first Bruce is rejecting the idea because he's ready to move on with his life as Bruce Wayne until Tim Drake tells him of Jean Paul Valley's decent into madness caused by the Order of St. Dumas. Even after he returned from that he went on another break to reevaluate his life while Dick took up the mantle ever so briefly.

And even after considering it, he never stopped being Batman after MOTP. We have many years of the animated series that can attest to that fact.

And in Knightfall, well, you just answered that yourself. Dick took up the mantle ever so briefly. Wasn't long before Bruce had to return to the cape and cowl, I'm betting.

 

[BH/HHH]

It's interesting how often that line gets reversed to "Anybody can be Batman" when in the movie it's "Batman could be anyone". There's a HUGE difference in meaning between the two lines. I think people just let the fact that they are foreshadowing Blake's fate there distract from the true meaning of that line. Bruce is describing his intentions and talking from Gotham's point of view...he's saying to all of Gotham, Batman could've been anyone.

That is not the same as saying, "Anybody can do it, it's easy!". People seem to interpret the line that way but that's not what it's about at all.

Also, in Begins Alfred asks Bruce how long he'll be back in Gotham and Bruce says, "As long as it takes to show the people of Gotham their city doesn't belong to the criminals and the corrupt." You'll hear Nolan talking about Bruce viewing his mission as a finite endeavor if you look up Begins-era interviews.

Just some minor pet peeves with me. I think it's fine if people don't care for an interpretation of Bruce Wayne that sees a possible way out for himself from the beginning, but don't throw the other movies under the bus and give Begins a pass. This is the way Nolan envisioned the character from the start. Of course since it was Bruce's early days as Batman in BB, it felt like there was a long road ahead so we accepted him as the Batman of the comics. But it was never the case. Begins even ends on a note of Rachel telling him "One day when Gotham no longer needs Batman, we can be together."

Well of course Batman could be anyone, that's why he has a secret identity lol

Btw I'm not saying anyone can do it, it's easy, I'm simply stating that Bruce Wayne is Batman. It's his mission, he wants what happened to him to never happen to anyone. Yet in the two Dark Knight movies he just wants to quit so badly. After Rachel died the mission should have been even more important.

But as I said its a great trilogy it's just those aspects that bugged me. I can even get on board with him wanting to quit while Rachel is around but after she died he should have gone even deeper into the mission. I have to admit these are my own problems as I hate that they ended the series in such a final way and the 3rd film wasn't as satisfying as the previous two.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

It's extremely valid because it's just the facts of how the business works. It's a business first and foremost. If the script hasn't begun and Goyers only done an outline, even with a press release that jus says the "Batman hasn't been cast"...that means nothing if Bale walks into a room. Im sorry but everything changes right there. Start from scratch and go through the risk with a new guy is only happening because they're forced to. Their 2.5 billion dollar Batman wants back in...and then yes...he's back in. No debates. It's a done deal.

So, you're saying that didn't happen with Skyfall? Like I said, making something up in order to have a stance in a debate does not work because it isn't factual information. "Ifs" and "buts" don't work. All you're doing is presenting hypothetical situations and going on rumors, while I present something that is a fact at this point in time. When WB officially announces something different, then you'll have a defense. I understand you want Bale to return and Mayimbe has given a glimmer of false hope, but it's not happening.

Keep hoping, though. I'm not going to argue this anymore. It's tiring and it's getting nowhere.

 

[BH/HHH]

Batman Returns....

Mask of the Phantasm.....after Andrea and Bruce consummate their relationship after years apart, Alfred asks Bruce "Might one ask what this bolds for your alter ego?" Bruce says "I'm not sure Alfred. Everything is happening so fast. Maybe after this is settled....maybe then...."

Knightfall.....after Bruce is able to walk again Tim Drake sets out to find him. At first Bruce is rejecting the idea because he's ready to move on with his life as Bruce Wayne until Tim Drake tells him of Jean Paul Valley's decent into madness caused by the Order of St. Dumas. Even after he returned from that he went on another break to reevaluate his life while Dick took up the mantle ever so briefly.

To be fair to Batman Returns he doesn't say he wants to quit he's just trying to get Selina to not kill Max Shreck and be with him .

MOTP, as I said above for the love of his life who in this case Andrea, I can see him wanting it but after that doesn't occur the mission becomes more important.

Knightfall, but as always he inevitably returns to carry out the mission.

 

[Dusty_Lane]

Plus, I think some of you are missing the point of his retirements in TDK Trilogy. This wasn't a universe set up to where there are five dozen super freaks in Arkham Asylum. At the start of Begins, Gotham is a city suffering from an economic depression, mob violence, crooked politicians, and a corrupt police force. Batman, Gordon, and Dent pretty much clean house making it a safer place thus the need for Batman wasn't a necessity once the task was completed. It's just how this world was set up. He's not out there trying to nab every street corner purse snatcher when Gordon's got a police force that's doing it's job. Certain major events are what draws this Batman out into the open. I just feel that if suddenly the world were to change in a since of where now aliens walk among us that could be a good reason for him to come back yet again.

 

[BatLobster]

The point is the idea is constantly flirted with in the mythos. They can't usually go all the way with it because they have another issue to sell or another episode to do. Nolan viewed the whole thing as a finite story, which was a totally cool and unique way to present the Batman mythos.

The only thing I knew going into TDKR was that I didn't want to see another "Batman on a rooftop, the fight rages on eternally" kind of non-ending. That would have been the most played out, uninteresting route to go.

Well of course Batman could be anyone, that's why he has a secret identity lol

Well yeah, but when Bruce says that he's responding to Blake's question of "why wear a mask?". So that's the whole point. The mask helped him be a symbol in addition to protecting the ones he cared about. I just think people take that quote way out of context, that's all. Minor pet peeve of mine.

As for the rest, that's your opinion and I can respect that. Again, I just don't feel there was a drastic change in direction. It's pretty thematically consistent to me from beginning to end.

 

[BH/HHH]

My main problem with the Dark Knight trilogy and infact WBs whole DCU strategy was the first two films would have been a great base for a DCU. They could have had what Marvel has now. I'm still not convinced Nolan wanted to do a 3rd film and I think he only did it cause WBs le him make Inception (which I think is his masterpiece).

 

[shauner111]

In some ways Rises feels more satisfying than the others and vice versa. Im biased though. I LOVE every one of those moves to death. But you cant really say Batman should have delved deeper into crime fighting after Rachel's death because first of all he did, he went after Joker with all his might. But then it's like you're ignoring what happened at the end. The reason why he couldn't dive deeper afterTDK was because Batman and Gordon made Dent the hero. Nolan has said, in order for that sacrifice to mean anything, it had to have worked and stabilized Gotham for a good period of time. This is why he went into hiding. And this is why while he was in hiding he tried taking care of Gotham as the businessman Bruce Wayne by creating a machine...that failed....by that point the Dent Act was in place and there was no organized crime to go after. So he sank into depression wanting to be Batman without an outlet. He didn't go out after typical muggers because this version never was about that. It was about the big leaguers. In the trilogy he used his Bat status to scare the common thieves, etc...but he never actually went after them.

Its all just a different interpretation. We need different takes on the character on film, different endings, or else it gets boring and repetitive. Comics can do things film cant with Batman. And film can do things comics cant.

 

[Dusty_Lane]

And even after considering it, he never stopped being Batman after MOTP. We have many years of the animated series that can attest to that fact.

And in Knightfall, well, you just answered that yourself. Dick took up the mantle ever so briefly. Wasn't long before Bruce had to return to the cape and cowl, I'm betting.

My point was not that he did quit, but was contemplating the idea. That was your question afterall right? When did he ever consider quitting like that.

 

[Broseph44]

My main problem with the Dark Knight trilogy and infact WBs whole DCU strategy was the first two films would have been a great base for a DCU. They could have had what Marvel has now. I'm still not convinced Nolan wanted to do a 3rd film and I think he only did it cause WBs le him make Inception (which I think is his masterpiece).

Yeah BB especially could have been a perfect start to a DCU.

 

[Gold Samurai]

It would have been too cliche/on the nose to have Batman continue on until he's 90/alone and bitter like the animated series portrayed Bruce's life.


Can't we get one adaptation where he's at peace

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Honestly, I think the comics could have done everything that the Nolan movies did. If anything, I think comics have a lot more freedom to do so because of all of the different versions of one hero you can have on multiple comics.

I'd just like the movies to be more closer to the inherent Batman mythos because we don't constantly get those like we do comics, and they are the main way that audiences are exposed to Batman and his world. Personally, I feel like the Nolanverse didn't give us an accurate representation of that.

 

[Dusty_Lane]

I'm sorry but I just gotta say this! F--- Marvel! Not everyone enjoys their cinematic cheese fest. Yeah they have their own successful formula, but let's be realistic here. It wouldn't be jack without Iron Man which in turn wouldn't be jack without RDJ! Last time I checked, two billion dollar Batman movies ain't too shabby. Nor is a 600 million dollar Superman film which is still a helluva lot more than any other non-RDJ Marvel studio flick ever earned!

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

My point was not that he did quit, but was contemplating the idea. That was your question afterall right? When did he ever consider quitting like that.

No, what I said was when has he really wanted to quit like that? Of course he's contemplated it and in some instances even tried to stop; but he either doesn't go through with it, or he's compelled to return to the cape and cowl.

 

[Broseph44]

I'm sorry but I just gotta say this! F--- Marvel! Not everyone enjoys their cinematic cheese fest. Yeah they have their own successful formula, but let's be realistic here. It wouldn't be jack without Iron Man which in turn wouldn't be jack without RDJ! Last time I checked, two billion dollar Batman movies ain't too shabby. Nor is a 600 million dollar Superman film which is still a helluva lot more than any other non-RDJ Marvel studio flick ever earned!

Whoa now take a deep breathe. What I got from this post is that you don't like RDJ.

 

[Dusty_Lane]

And further more I predict Marvel is about to start seeing it's fair share of flops with Ant-Man, Guardian of the Galaxy.....is there anyone who's really gonna care? Stop holding them in regard like they are infallible. Lords knows since they first started doing mainstream comic films in '98 with Blade that they've had more misses than hits.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

It would have been too cliche/on the nose to have Batman continue on until he's 90/alone and bitter like the animated series portrayed Bruce's life.


Can't we get one adaptation where he's at peace

I tolerate it as long as that version of him isn't continued. For a closed trilogy, it's okay I guess.

 

[Dusty_Lane]

Whoa now take a deep breathe. What I got from this post is that you don't like RDJ.

On the contrary I'm saying he's one of the most important ingredients in their success. If it wasn't for him I wouldn't even bother with those movies at all. My point was that I'm tired of people trying to hold everything up to Marvel like they are the supreme gods of how to make superhero franchises work.

 

[Broseph44]

People are just saying that DC is slacking in getting any sort of connected universe going. Marvel regardless of if you enjoy the movies or care for them, have been successful. I think even without RDJ marvel fans would still have supported the movies. Because it was a connected universe. Which is something all comic fans want to see.

 

[BH/HHH]

Well yeah, but when Bruce says that he's responding to Blake's question of "why wear a mask?". So that's the whole point. The mask helped him be a symbol in addition to protecting the ones he cared about. I just think people take that quote way out of context, that's all. Minor pet peeve of mine.

As for the rest, that's your opinion and I can respect that. Again, I just don't feel there was a drastic change in direction. It's pretty thematically consistent to me from beginning to end.

Fair enough, been nice discussing it though. t:

Yeah BB especially could have been a perfect start to a DCU.

Definitely

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

But I'm glad that BB wasn't the start to a DCU because of what they did after that movie.

 

[BatLobster]

Here's the thing. Before Marvel started their own film studio, this whole idea of a shared cinematic superhero universe was unprecedented. Marvel Studios is in the business of making NOTHING but superhero films. Warner Brothers is a movie studio that just so happens to own DC Comics. They have lots of other films on their slate besides superhero films, it's not even fair to compare the two. WB is a studio that takes home Best Picture Oscars. It's two different business models. WB is not in the business of ONLY making superhero movies like Marvel is.

So, nah I don't see ending the Nolanverse as a missed opportunity. It was never designed to be part of a DCU from the start. I'm glad we didn't have to be subjected to WB hijacking what Nolan and Bale created and diluting it over the years with studio mandates...the way they're hijacking the MoS franchise right about now.

It's also funny how quickly spoiled we get. It's not too long ago that a merely "good" Batman film was not something to take for granted and was worth getting excited over. Now because of what Marvel has done, it's like we feel entitled to have a shared universe. That was never a priority for me. I just wanted to see a good Batman movies. And heck, I know for a fact there are plenty of MoS fans who simply wanted to see good Superman movies and are now getting Batman shoved into their world all of a sudden.

I dunno, I guess I'm grateful to have a trilogy with a unified creative vision that stands alone and wasn't compromised by pressure to put more heroes on the screen. TDK Trilogy was really a "pre-Avengers era" endeavor and now we're entering into this post-Avengers world. If Avengers had flopped, something tells me we would not be seeing a Batman/Superman movie in 2015.

Fair enough, been nice discussing it though. t:

Ditto. t: