The Winter Soldier If this is most Avengers-related, why is it coming second?

[XtremelyBaneful]

This might not be a very important question but I pondered this the other day. After Avengers, phase 2 was announced starting with iron man 3, then thor 2, then captain america 2, then gotg, and so forth.

I also remember reading that captain america 2 was gonna be the film most affected by the events of the avengers.

If that's the case, why wasn't the winter soldier the first film to be released after avengers? why was it iron man 3? Is it solely because they thought iron man 3 is the biggest money maker?

well they sure as bad place wouldn't be wrong seeing as how iron man 3 was only 300 mill away from tying with avengers themselves, but it doesn't seem smooth to me if captain america 2 is going to be most connected one of history's greatest films 2 years after it is released

 

[cherokeesam]

This might not be a very important question but I pondered this the other day. After Avengers, phase 2 was announced starting with iron man 3, then thor 2, then captain america 2, then gotg, and so forth.

I also remember reading that captain america 2 was gonna be the film most affected by the events of the avengers.

If that's the case, why wasn't the winter soldier the first film to be released after avengers? why was it iron man 3? Is it solely because they thought iron man 3 is the biggest money maker?

well they sure as bad place wouldn't be wrong seeing as how iron man 3 was only 300 mill away from tying with avengers themselves, but it doesn't seem smooth to me if captain america 2 is going to be most connected one of history's greatest films 2 years after it is released

Most direct answer is definitely that IM3 was going to be the biggest moneymaker. But from a plot standpoint, CATWS is supposed to be the lynchpin between not only Avengers 1 but also Avengers 2, so having it nestled at the halfway point between those movies seems the most logical place.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Most direct answer is definitely that IM3 was going to be the biggest moneymaker. But from a plot standpoint, CATWS is supposed to be the lynchpin between not only Avengers 1 but also Avengers 2, so having it nestled at the halfway point between those movies seems the most logical place.

so I was half right in saying that it's because iron man is the biggest money maker.

with that being said, even if cap 2 is supposed to be the bridge to avengers 2, doesn't mean it should come out later simply because there are several other stories being told as well (im 3, thor 2, gotg, and so forth). I suppose it is a good move from disney since im3 is so far 2013's biggest blockbuster, but I would have preferred to have seen cap 2 come first.

 

[Loki882]

This might not be a very important question but I pondered this the other day. After Avengers, phase 2 was announced starting with iron man 3, then thor 2, then captain america 2, then gotg, and so forth.

I also remember reading that captain america 2 was gonna be the film most affected by the events of the avengers.

If that's the case, why wasn't the winter soldier the first film to be released after avengers? why was it iron man 3? Is it solely because they thought iron man 3 is the biggest money maker?

well they sure as bad place wouldn't be wrong seeing as how iron man 3 was only 300 mill away from tying with avengers themselves, but it doesn't seem smooth to me if captain america 2 is going to be most connected one of history's greatest films 2 years after it is released

If TWS is going to be the solo film that's most connected to Avengers 2, then logic would dictate that it be releases CLOSER to when Avengers 2 comes out, so that things are still relatively fresh. If it was released right after Avengers, then people might forget some of the important details when the other three movies come out later. Plus, Tony's PTSD in IM 3 was directly related to what happened in Avengers, so addressing that right away made sense.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

It's completely from a production/development point.

Captain America is coming third, because in Phase 1, the Iron Man movies came out first, followed by Thor, and then Captain America. And they're likely to want to keep a pace between their heros.

The plot of the Avengers 2 wasn't worked out by the time Iron Man 3 went into production. Nor was it when Thor 2 did.

With CATWS, they had their chance to take their time in working out a script that sets up the Avengers, while also providing some development for Steve.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

If TWS is going to be the solo film that's most connected to Avengers 2, then logic would dictate that it be releases CLOSER to when Avengers 2 comes out, so that things are still relatively fresh. If it was released right after Avengers, then people might forget some of the important details when the other three movies come out later. Plus, Tony's PTSD in IM 3 was directly related to what happened in Avengers, so addressing that right away made sense.

that's like saying one can watch avengers and then avengers 2 right after that without having to watch the rest of the mcu to be caught up with the whole story.

things are set in motion in every single film, and i do not think 1 film stands in between 2 avengers films most importantly.

It's completely from a production/development point.

Captain America is coming third, because in Phase 1, the Iron Man movies came out first, followed by Thor, and then Captain America. And they're likely to want to keep a pace between their heros.

The plot of the Avengers 2 wasn't worked out by the time Iron Man 3 went into production. Nor was it when Thor 2 did.

With CATWS, they had their chance to take their time in working out a script that sets up the Avengers, while also providing some development for Steve.

in that case, there should have been a hulk film last year instead of a thor film. as well, I did not like how iron man had 2 films in the first phase as well as the most appearances. i heard that rdj was even paid much more than his costars.

 

[Shikamaru]

Don't IM3, Thor: TDW, and CA:TWS take place around the same time?

 

[BullMcGiveny]

in that case, there should have been a hulk film last year instead of a thor film. as well, I did not like how iron man had 2 films in the first phase as well as the most appearances. i heard that rdj was even paid much more than his costars.

But they're not making any Hulk movies anymore, they've simply taken him out of circulation and moved Thor and Cap one slot.

I don't really mind Iron Man getting two movies, as this was Marvel still working out stuff, but the amount of Iron Man in Avengers was more than I cared for. He was paid a lot more than his co-stars, fifteen times as much, some say. And per-Whedon, he's getting a huge role in Age of Ultron.

It's kind of funny, but Iron Man benefits the most from Marvel's schedule, and Cap benefits the least.

Because Iron Man came earliest in the phase, which granted two things A) the production of his movie was focused purely on Iron Man's mythos as opposed to world building and set-up for other movies and B) making the most of the buzz generated by the Avengers and.

But Cap comes last of the Avengers movies (so not counting GOTG) and therefore his movie isn't completely developed with the intention of furthering of his own story, but setting up an Avengers movie. By the time the movie is released, the buzz is also all but gone.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Don't IM3, Thor: TDW, and CA:TWS take place around the same time?

we don't know yet, there is no official statement about the timeline.
but as Thor 2 didn't look like happening around christmas time I kinda doubt it.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Because Iron Man came earliest in the phase, which granted the production of his movie was focused purely on Iron Man's mythos as opposed to world building and set-up for other movies .

we had that with IM2 and people complained

 

[BullMcGiveny]

we had that with IM2 and people complained

I was referring to Iron Man 3.

It's funny, though. Iron Man 2 wasn't terribly popular because it concerned itself too much with world-building, and Marvel's took the criticism as heart but only as far as Iron Man is concerned.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I don't remember excessive world-building in T:TDW

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I don't remember excessive world-building in T:TDW

I remember some world destruction in TDW more than any world-building.

 

[Loki882]

I was referring to Iron Man 3.

It's funny, though. Iron Man 2 wasn't terribly popular because it concerned itself too much with world-building, and Marvel's took the criticism as heart but only as far as Iron Man is concerned.

I think that Marvel took the criticisms to heart, but went too far the other way. For instance, people complained that there was too much SHIELD in IM 2, so Marvel overreacted and had NO SHIELD in IM 3, which didn't make narrative sense. SHIELD was interested in the Ten Rings organization way back in IM 1, hence why Coulson wanted to debrief Tony. As far as people knew, the Mandarin was the leader of the Ten Rings and he was bombing sites on US soil and threatening the President of the US. Having SHIELD not show up AT ALL was also a mistake on the writers part, just in the other direction. Marvel didn't address the criticisms from Thor at all since they were still there in TDW, only worse.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

But they're not making any Hulk movies anymore, they've simply taken him out of circulation and moved Thor and Cap one slot.

I don't really mind Iron Man getting two movies, as this was Marvel still working out stuff, but the amount of Iron Man in Avengers was more than I cared for. He was paid a lot more than his co-stars, fifteen times as much, some say. And per-Whedon, he's getting a huge role in Age of Ultron.

It's kind of funny, but Iron Man benefits the most from Marvel's schedule, and Cap benefits the least.

Because Iron Man came earliest in the phase, which granted two things A) the production of his movie was focused purely on Iron Man's mythos as opposed to world building and set-up for other movies and B) making the most of the buzz generated by the Avengers and.

But Cap comes last of the Avengers movies (so not counting GOTG) and therefore his movie isn't completely developed with the intention of furthering of his own story, but setting up an Avengers movie. By the time the movie is released, the buzz is also all but gone.

i'm just saying, there's a pebble in the path they made whether they're changing things up or not.

 

[TheVileOne]

This might not be a very important question but I pondered this the other day. After Avengers, phase 2 was announced starting with iron man 3, then thor 2, then captain america 2, then gotg, and so forth.

I also remember reading that captain america 2 was gonna be the film most affected by the events of the avengers.

If that's the case, why wasn't the winter soldier the first film to be released after avengers? why was it iron man 3? Is it solely because they thought iron man 3 is the biggest money maker?

well they sure as bad place wouldn't be wrong seeing as how iron man 3 was only 300 mill away from tying with avengers themselves, but it doesn't seem smooth to me if captain america 2 is going to be most connected one of history's greatest films 2 years after it is released

It's actually third in Phase 2 following Iron Man 3 and Thor 2.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

yeah I know, I realized that after making the thread :\

just the thought that im3 came first is what immediately jumped to my head

 

[BullMcGiveny]

I don't remember excessive world-building in T:TDW

Well, yes. There wasn't.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I don't remember that in any of them tbh

 

[Xeno]

I think that Marvel took the criticisms to heart, but went too far the other way. For instance, people complained that there was too much SHIELD in IM 2, so Marvel overreacted and had NO SHIELD in IM 3, which didn't make narrative sense. SHIELD was interested in the Ten Rings organization way back in IM 1, hence why Coulson wanted to debrief Tony. As far as people knew, the Mandarin was the leader of the Ten Rings and he was bombing sites on US soil and threatening the President of the US. Having SHIELD not show up AT ALL was also a mistake on the writers part, just in the other direction. Marvel didn't address the criticisms from Thor at all since they were still there in TDW, only worse.

Since we son't know where CATWS fits in with IM3 chronologically we still have no idea whether or not SHIELD's absence "makes sense." It could very well be that the turmoil and treachery that will happen inside SHIELD in the film was what prevented the spy agency from intervening in Tony Stark's woes.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Since we son't know where CATWS fits in with IM3 chronologically we still have no idea whether or not SHIELD's absence "makes sense." It could very well be that the turmoil and treachery that will happen inside SHIELD in the film was what prevented the spy agency from intervening in Tony Stark's woes.

they could have mentioned something about in im3 then.

 

[Xeno]

they could have mentioned something about in im3 then.

Who could have mentioned it? No one involved in the events in IM3 has any close ties to SHIELD so there is no way that they could have known about turmoil there.


Rhodey did mention that the President and the US military had been embarrassed by the fact that they hadn't been able to respond better during the Battle of New York, so they wanted to handle the Mandarin on their own. Apparently they would have told SHIELD to stand down anyway, so that the military and Iron Patriot could be seen protecting the US effectively for political purposes.

 

[Moridin]

It's completely from a production/development point.

Captain America is coming third, because in Phase 1, the Iron Man movies came out first, followed by Thor, and then Captain America. And they're likely to want to keep a pace between their heros.

The plot of the Avengers 2 wasn't worked out by the time Iron Man 3 went into production. Nor was it when Thor 2 did.

This. IM3 had begun scripting before the first Cap film was even released. It takes a minimum of two years to make these kinds of films.

in that case, there should have been a hulk film last year instead of a thor film. as well, I did not like how iron man had 2 films in the first phase as well as the most appearances. i heard that rdj was even paid much more than his costars.

TIH didn't make enough money to warrant a sequel. By the time Hulk became the breakout star of the Avengers, Marvel already had already decided on, and set in motion the Phase II films.

Iron Man 2 was immediately greenlit because 1) the first was so successful, they were sure of another hit, 2) they hadn't yet got the ball rolling on Cap & Thor yet, which IIRC Marvel were originally hoping to release in 2010 (and Avengers 2011) but you can't release a movie you haven't even scripted so they were all moved back a year.

 

[cherokeesam]

Since we son't know where CATWS fits in with IM3 chronologically we still have no idea whether or not SHIELD's absence "makes sense." It could very well be that the turmoil and treachery that will happen inside SHIELD in the film was what prevented the spy agency from intervening in Tony Stark's woes.

I think there's hints that the Phase II films (everything except GOTG, anyway, which may/may not) are roughly concurrent. It's a pretty common theory that SHIELD's absence in IM3 will be explained by the power struggle in CATWS (and I'm about positive that Feige himself said that's the case), and Darcy had an offhand remark in TDW about not being able to reach SHIELD during the whole Greenwich fracas.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Who could have mentioned it? No one involved in the events in IM3 has any close ties to SHIELD so there is no way that they could have known about turmoil there.

pepper, since she seemed to really like coulson throughout the iron man films and in avengers and i'm sure someone would have informed her about his death since avengers and she'd be wondering wats going on with shield

TIH didn't make enough money to warrant a sequel. By the time Hulk became the breakout star of the Avengers, Marvel already had already decided on, and set in motion the Phase II films.

i'm just saying, they broke the pattern is all. i figured they didn't do another hulk since the first wasn't so popular nor the boot before it.

or preboot, if you will.