Comics If you could erase everything from Spider-Man's history starting from one point...

[Spider-Kurt!]

where would you start? Keep in mind, EVERYTHING in Peter's life starts new from that point.

 

[DACrowe]

Somoetime in the early '90s before the Clone Saga. That way we erase the Clone Saga, Norman coming back, Aunt May coming back (though JMS did use her well, it was still a terrible retconn and we could restart before she died anyways), Aunt May dying even, MJ leaving Peter, MJ being "dead," Venom being a *****, the whole spider-totem, spider-god crap, and teh stupid unmasking and everyone knowing. Also Flash and Liz turning into *******s.

I mean I did enjoy some of the best GG stories since Norman came back, Aunt May finding out, Ezekiel, etc. but the **** since about 1994 to now far outweighs the good though.

 

[The Joker]

Somoetime in the early '90s before the Clone Saga. That way we erase the Clone Saga, Norman coming back, Aunt May coming back (though JMS did use her well, it was still a terrible retconn and we could restart before she died anyways), Aunt May dying even, MJ leaving Peter, MJ being "dead," Venom being a *****, the whole spider-totem, spider-god crap, and teh stupid unmasking and everyone knowing. Also Flash and Liz turning into *******s.

Sounds good to me

 

[Spider-Kurt!]

Me too.

 

[Norman Osborn]

where would you start? Keep in mind, EVERYTHING in Peter's life starts new from that point.

Sins Past...

I know the popular answer would be the clone saga but for me,as convoluted a mess as it was, it had its shining moments (and I Personally like the idea of the possibility of the return of Kaine and Baby May) , SP and the Other were simply "shiners"

 

[Infinity9999x]

Somewhere mid Clone Saga, before it shot epicly out of proportion, and before we found out Aunt May wasn't really dead, and that Norman was behind everything.

At that point, I would hire a detective, find Citizen Kane, and have him impliment his solution to the clone saga, and then get the guy who does Spider-girl to write Spider-man.

 

[bulok]

Somoetime in the early '90s before the Clone Saga. That way we erase the Clone Saga, Norman coming back, Aunt May coming back (though JMS did use her well, it was still a terrible retconn and we could restart before she died anyways), Aunt May dying even, MJ leaving Peter, MJ being "dead," Venom being a *****, the whole spider-totem, spider-god crap, and teh stupid unmasking and everyone knowing. Also Flash and Liz turning into *******s.

I mean I did enjoy some of the best GG stories since Norman came back, Aunt May finding out, Ezekiel, etc. but the **** since about 1994 to now far outweighs the good though.

Make it so!

 

[Citizen_Kaine]

If you make the saga never happen, you get the angry "Spider" who apparantly ya'll have forgotten about. Like the Clone Saga or not, the end was result was that Marvel saw how conterversial the idea was, and Spider-Man was taken back to his roots. Additionally the Saga helped create some new characters and memorable moments to the Spider-mytho's and while it had its faults, it is definalty and important aspect to the history of Spider-Man, completly ignoring it, and denying its existence would be quite a faulty step in logic(Ahem Marvel). Now, in my opinion the reboot is where it all went wrong. Everything was fine and dandy with Dematies and Defalco at the helms of the Spider-books, and Spidey was being taken back to his roots. The humour returned(Thanks to Ben Reilly) Mary Jane continued to find new purpose(Thanks to Baby May), and the stories were intresting , and featured the return of Norman Osborn as a key antagonist but in a way that was not over the top(Thanks to you guys). However... The reboot changed that, MJ quit her studies and became a super model again, while starting to worry about Peter being Spider-Man. Aunt May returned instead of Mayday, and continued to act as though Peter was frail, and Spider-Man was a menace. Osborn started channeling his inner Joker and became responsible for every aspect that was wrong in Peter's life. The writers killed MJ in an attempt to make Peter hip with the ladies again yet wrote him as miserable and suffering in every issue. Worst of all Howard Mackie and Bryne reigned supreme, having Uncle Ben get killed by a computer salesmen, the creation of Captain Power, and the loss of Doc Ock's pants.

This my friends was the worst time in Spider-Man history. The cut off point should not be at the begining of the Clone Saga, that very few have read complete, but at Peter Parker 97. This is where Osborn went omnipent, this is where Aunt May returned for no reason, this is where it all went wrong.

 

[SpideyStu2]

Yeah I couldn't agree more with that one ^. I wouldn't hit the RESET button before the Clone Saga but shortly after it. The Clone Saga was a mess but it didn't change anything that couldn't be "fixed" (****e Gwen, unmasking).

It's either at this point where you hit the reset button or around the time that JMS first gets on Amazing Spider-Man. But not before the Clone Saga.

 

[Eddie Brock]

i agree with doing it mid-Clone saga
it was a good saga....but just drawn out WAY too long

 

[Parker756]

lol The Final Crapter...thats when i stopped collecting

but I would have probably erased everything a little before that. Definitely after Peter Parker, Spider-man 75 (death of Reilly and Osborn comes back), cause for some reason I still love that issue. I enjoyed the SHOC storyline that happened right afterwards too, but things started to suck a little bit after that. But if I could erase one storyline from ever happening it would be The Final Crapter. NOTHING good came out of that. Hell, the last issue Spidey fights the freaking Daily Bugle for the whole damn issue.

 

[imdaly]

<snip>

AMEN!!!

 

[DACrowe]

Well I love the end of the clone saga (except getting rid of baby May and leaving it up) and there were a few good DeMathis stories, a great Lizard, story etc. in that time period but definetly reset before Final Chapter.

And for the record do not do it just before JMS took over. If you recall the era before JMS was worse than anything he did, this was the time of stupid Peter who was always in depression by Mackie/Bryne with lame villains no one cared about and turned Doc Ock, Venom, Sandman, etc. into whiney emo *****es, they tried to reset Peter's Origin wiht "Chapter: One" and MJ was dead but wait no she isn't but she leaves Peter because he is a horny teenager with no depth....

No JMS reinvigorated the titles alongside Paul Jenkins back at the beginning of the decade. It wasn't until about three years later with Sins Past did everything go downhill. Albeit these last 3 years have been awful and all signs point to him going out on the worst note possible iin August too though.

 

[The Shredder]

Somewhere mid Clone Saga, before it shot epicly out of proportion, and before we found out Aunt May wasn't really dead, and that Norman was behind everything.

At that point, I would hire a detective, find Citizen Kane, and have him impliment his solution to the clone saga, and then get the guy who does Spider-girl to write Spider-man.

I like that.

 

[arachnid-guy]

The Final Chapter.


It's more like The Final Straw.

 

[Lt. Figgnuts]

I wouldn't.

Because that's just damned lazy and uncreative, moreso than any of the numerous problems with Spidey these days.

 

[Rez]

I, also, wouldn't. There are always going to be extreme lows in any ongoing story and we just have to accept that and hope that we get more highs than lows.

I love the entire Clone Saga and the months shortly therafter, but hate everything from late 1998 until January 2001, where we got the brilliant Revenge of the Green Goblin story- and also led up to JMS taking over the books in mid 2001. Everything from there out is fantastic, with JMS turning out great stuff and other stories in other books- like A Death in The Family(What should have been the final appearance of the GG) and others. Unfortunately, once we get to mid 2004 or so, things take a turn for the worse with Sins Past and never really got better. However, now, we have one hell of a book with Sensational, and FNSM is getting better. Soon, Amazing will be revamped.

Like I said, highs and lows. The Final Chapter IS the worst story in Spidey History, and though ASM 400 is my favourite Spidey issue ever, there is NO WAY I would want to get rid of some of the stories we've had with Aunt May since her revival. My point is, you have to take the bad with the good and realize that even the most horrible of stories can lead to something amazing down the line.

I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[Infinity9999x]

If you make the saga never happen, you get the angry "Spider" who apparantly ya'll have forgotten about. Like the Clone Saga or not, the end was result was that Marvel saw how conterversial the idea was, and Spider-Man was taken back to his roots. Additionally the Saga helped create some new characters and memorable moments to the Spider-mytho's and while it had its faults, it is definalty and important aspect to the history of Spider-Man, completly ignoring it, and denying its existence would be quite a faulty step in logic(Ahem Marvel). Now, in my opinion the reboot is where it all went wrong. Everything was fine and dandy with Dematies and Defalco at the helms of the Spider-books, and Spidey was being taken back to his roots. The humour returned(Thanks to Ben Reilly) Mary Jane continued to find new purpose(Thanks to Baby May), and the stories were intresting , and featured the return of Norman Osborn as a key antagonist but in a way that was not over the top(Thanks to you guys). However... The reboot changed that, MJ quit her studies and became a super model again, while starting to worry about Peter being Spider-Man. Aunt May returned instead of Mayday, and continued to act as though Peter was frail, and Spider-Man was a menace. Osborn started channeling his inner Joker and became responsible for every aspect that was wrong in Peter's life. The writers killed MJ in an attempt to make Peter hip with the ladies again yet wrote him as miserable and suffering in every issue. Worst of all Howard Mackie and Bryne reigned supreme, having Uncle Ben get killed by a computer salesmen, the creation of Captain Power, and the loss of Doc Ock's pants.

This my friends was the worst time in Spider-Man history. The cut off point should not be at the begining of the Clone Saga, that very few have read complete, but at Peter Parker 97. This is where Osborn went omnipent, this is where Aunt May returned for no reason, this is where it all went wrong.

Agreed, if you look above Citizen Kane, you'll see that if I had control, I would have already drafted you and used your ideas to fix the clone saga and everything else.

 

[Shockdingo]

I agree with many points raised, but I feel that overall the totem stuff should be axed, they completely were trying to change everything we knew and loved about spiderman. The "chosen" aspect kills the whole "hapless schmuck who fell face forward int powers he never asked for" feel. I feel the whole thing was too drastic and unneeded.

As for the clone saga, leave it be. I loved Kain and various ideas were great. I never read the whole thing, but I liked somethings here and there.

 

[freemadison]

I wouldn't.

Neither would I. Although I must admit that Final Chapter was a total crapfest. t:

 

[SpideyInATree]

I'd say everything after Book of Ezekiel should be erased. Even though JMS did a good New Avengers arc it wasn't until after Book of Ezekiel that his run pretty much got tainted with bad ideas. Even though they were two BAD ideas they need to be erased.

I'd keep everything about the Clone Saga and if I had a chance to change that I'd have kept Ben Reilly the one true Spider-Man and let Peter Parker, MJ, and Baby May live happily ever after in Oregon, making guest appearances every now and again and have started with a fresh new Spider-Man. But then none of JMS' run would have been relevant.

 

[matt50]

i would have kept ben reilly as spider man as well....the stories were fresh, loads of potential, and worth buying

 

[Spade]

Everything past Peter getting the false test result that he was the clone. The Clone Saga started a perfect set-up: Peter has a child with MJ on the way, and hands over the threads to Ben Reilly. It wouldn't have disrespected the fans by effectively saying we've been reading the tales of a clone for quite some time like the horrid plot twist did, provided some happiness for Peter and still re-affirmed his heart-held notion that "with great power comes great responsibility." Ben could have taken up the mantle from Peter, with a large room for new tales to be told. Even better, you could explore future venues in a new fashion. What if Warren made Ben's cells stable when he created him, ensuring he wouldn't have clone degeneration? Or what if he did begin to suffer from degeneration later on, and Mayday came to replace him in her early teen years?

By making Peter the clone it started to delve too much into the "secrets Peter has yet to be told" element that ruined the Clone Saga, and in the end it's that very truth that completed itself in "Revelations"- completely uninventive plot twists that curtail the growth of new stories by taking us back to an already-impacted past. From there it's gotten worse- the retconning of Peter's superhero origin, the revival of Stormin' Norman and his man-purse, May's return (which, after such a poignant end, ruined the feel- when a character is revived the potential for screwups only grows), the horrible canon flashback we call 'Sins Past' (a sin unto itself), and 'One More Day' (which is looking to be one giant jump back in Spidey's progression). Had the Marvel seniority, Harras in particular, had the brass ones at the time to go through with making Ben the new focus the Clone Saga could have been looked upon fondly rather than the point where the stories took that deep plummet down the creative toilet bowl.

 

[Kevin]

reboot.

 

[Vile]

Maximum Carnage to present.

Burn it all.