I'm Reading Your Stuff: General News and Discussion Thread

[Eddie Dean]

Movie is obviously canceled. Why the free schedule?

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Movie is obviously canceled. Why the free schedule?

 

[Babillygunn]

You never felt that it was particularly hard for Bale's Bruce to activate the playboy persona; quite the opposite, it felt like it came really easy to him from day #1 and he didn't really have to obsess over the ways to pull it off or to really make it a performance. It never quite felt like Bale's Bruce had to rehearse lines in front of the mirror (regardless of the John Blake quote) or had to go out of his way to make a completely fake voice, or anything like that.

Also I'd argue that the thing with Bale's Bruce is that it sometimes felt like the playboy persona was, at least in terms of speech and all that, closer to his real self than even Batman was. Not really in terms of morals, but if you watch any of the Lucius Fox scenes in the trilogy he was suave and charming even there despite the fact Lucius knew his identity, and there were times were even with Alfred he got kinda playful (I mean, the "damn good television" line was already pure public Bruce material despite the fact that it was literally talking in reference to him being Batman) very different from the way he behaved in literally any scene as Batman where he had the most ridiculous intense voice and behavior.

I feel like we must’ve been watching completely different movies, because Bale’s “public” Bruce Wayne was completely different from the real one.

The need for separate personas was directly addressed in Batman Begins:


Subsequently, throughout the trilogy you literally see Bruce flip a switch from drunken playboy persona to serious Bruce on multiple occasions.

First this is brilliantly shown in the party scene in Begins (as well as the pool area scene)


You see it in TDK with another party scene that shows Bruce throwing out champagne with disgust as soon as he’s alone


And you definitely see it in the part where Bruce saves Coleman Reese by acting like a spoiled rich guy driving fast in a sports car


The look that he gives Reese at the end of that scene is the real Bruce. In one glance he is saying “this persona you think defines me? It’s not what you think. I will crash a car and nearly kill myself to save you. Even you, who would betray me and sell me out. I will lay may life on the line for you. So don’t confuse me with what I choose to portray to the public…now you see the real me.”

 

[Sawyer]

 

[Gothamsknight]

I think, for me, I just want Pattinson's Bruce to be in a different place in this film. It makes sense for him to have a different persona as Bruce, and it'll be part of his growth. He's growing into that version that we are familiar with. I hope Reeves goes that route.

 

[Sawyer]

 

[Sawyer]

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I think my main hope is to connect with this film - and to want to rewatch it. For me, I was really stoked for The Batman '22, but once it came out - it's like I knew it was 'good', but I didn't really feel connected to it. I didn't have an urge to revisit it. Nothing pulls me back to it. I loved everything in it - but I'd put the writing dead last on the list of things I loved. It was like the parts were greater than the sum, for me.

For the sequel, I'm hoping it gives context to the first film that enriches it for me - while also being a film I really want to revisit.

It's just been weird to have a Batman film feel one-and-done. I've talked to a lot of people on the more casual side who also had the "I liked it but I don't think I'd ever watch it again" feel.

I also hope that the 2nd film still works for Penguin's character even if you haven't seen the show - I think on of the big MCU mistakes has been the 'homework' angle of "If you haven't seen WandaVision, Multiverse of Madness makes a lot less sense..."

 

[Mindreaper21]

I wonder if (for some at least) The Batman doesn’t connect with them because it’s more focused on the detective aspect and not the action. Or, that it’s more psychological and not as theatrical.

When I first watched the Batman, I knew that it should be my favorite Batman film. It has my favorite villain as well as many other elements that I was hoping for and more. Though, I couldn’t figure out why it didn’t win me over the way I anticipated it would.

After the second watch, it made more sense for me. All of the Batman films prior to The Batman can all be seen as stand alone films. Though, The Batman is a series. It’s telling a very large story. So, I was able watch the first film as Episode 1.

Sure, there’s a long wait between films and shows. It’s definitely not for everyone, because some people have certain expectations from the content that they watch. Whatever the case, I do hope that more will be able to enjoy this series.

 

[J.Drangal]

I don't think people who have trouble connecting with The Batman are automatically at fault for expecting something else from it.

I can only speak for myself in the end, but what keeps me from connecting 100% with the film is that the mystery and investigation it uses as its "backbone", which everything depends on, just seems too flimsy to me. For example, when you're guessing who the "rat" is as early as the 44 Below scene, while all the film's characters are working out what seems to you bloated hypotheses (Oz running a drug business with corrupted cops, behind his boss's back but literally in his house), something just no longer works...

As @OnLeatherWings said, I can appreciate many parts of this film when isolated, as the technique and overall production remains objectively outstanding, from visuals to sounds.
I still seen it four times in theaters but since, I have to admit, I have trouble revisiting the film in its entirety. Every time, I just find myself taken out by some articulations in the story that simply don't work for me and ultimately turn it off...
I also find that many parts of the film are weighed down by static storytelling (not to be confused with a lack of action).

I really wish I'd love it more...
I still keep an eye on the franchise because, well, it's Batman, and if anything, I'm glad the character is in the hands of someone who takes it seriously.
But for the sequel, I'm hoping for a script that will seem tighter to me (and that's really my only expectation, by the way).

It's just been weird to have a Batman film feel one-and-done. I've talked to a lot of people on the more casual side who also had the "I liked it but I don't think I'd ever watch it again" feel.

I'm going to say something controversial, but this is just my personal experience.
The Batman is a film about which I wonder a lot in terms of its reception. If it weren't for a sites like Rotten Tomatoes or this forum, most of the sites I frequent, the podcasts I listen to and the people around me IRL seem increasingly iffy about the film. A sort of consensus acknowledging its formal success, followed by various criticisms going from characterization to story.

I'll be waved off Youtube view figures for The Penguin, but I'm among those who think The Batman Part II may have a bit of a challenge on its hands to reawaken the hype.


... becoming a pariah on the board in 3, 2, ...

 

[flickchick85]

Sucks for y'all, The Batman is now my most re-visited Bat-flick. Still a masterpiece to me, and the only Bat-flick to ever get me emotional. 🤷‍♀️

 

[DeadlyWest]

I've touched on why Batman means a lot to me and I think it's pretty relevant to this discussion so it's a story I'm gonna quickly retell. I'm gonna spoiler tag it just because it involves stuff that's quite triggering for some (mainly suicidal thoughts) but feel free to read otherwise.

Spoiler

My child/teenhood was...hard. From age 10 to 14 especially, it was a genuine struggle to give myself a reason each day to not take my own life. I felt utterly alone, my self worth was non existent and I blamed myself for trauma that wasn't my fault. It's not hyperbole to say that I genuinely should not be here, right now. I look back on those days and it dumbfounds me that I am still here. But I am, and it's for a multitude of reasons. I'm not gonna pretend Batman is the sole reason, he isn't. But...he wound up being one of the major ones.

I had a bucket list I wanted to work through, before I decided enough was enough with life, as it were. On that bucket list was watching every episode of BTAS. Simply because with TDK trilogy and the Arkham games, I did get more interested in Batman and always heard it was worth checking out. And I did, with not much changing for me.

Until...one very specific episode.



In my self hatred, I always...had the belief that I was almost pathetic, for what I struggled with. That it was just a me problem, that nobody else goes through it for such silly reasons in my mind. And that, in my childhood, extended even to what fictional characters represented. Batman doesn't get depression, he's too busy being a kickass superhero! Something like that is simply beneath him.

Then 2 minutes into watching this episode, I see Batman slumped in a chair. He tells Alfred that he's tired. That he has a weary spirit. That he wonders whether he's really making a difference. That he wonders if he has any real value in life.

To this day I don't really know why this is what made me snap out of it. But it did. I had to pause it right there to just start sobbing. Because I had just listened to someone say how I was feeling. I listened to this figure I thought grander than all of that verbalise what I couldn't put into words. I watched the rest of the episode and I watched as Batman realised he does have worth. He does make a difference.

It was the first time, of two, when watching something Batman related that I stopped seeing a silly superhero in a costume and saw a man who lives with what I lived with and continues to move forward. It was the first time, in a very long time, that I didn't feel alone. If it was not for that moment, when I was 13 years old, I don't think I'd be here. It's why I think, to this day, that life is worth living despite still living with this every day.

My love for Batman only grew from there, it grew and it grew. 9 years later, on March 4th 2022 I thought it was at its zenith. For the first two thirds of watching The Batman, I already thought it was within the top 3 best Batman films easily. Whether or not it topped Mask of the Phantasm though? That...was a little hard to judge.

But then I watched this



And for the second time in my life, I stopped seeing a character in a costume. I saw that man again. That man that saved my life and showed me I wasn't alone in my pain. Who showed me that I can move forward and be better, despite it.

I saw that man. Projected on a screen, in a ****ing cinema, surrounded by other people watching and seeing it themselves.

Emotional does not cover it. I was an absolute wreck for the final ten minutes.

And this is why The Batman resonated with me so much more than I think it did for a lot of the others here. We all love Batman, but all for varied and differing reasons. It stands to reason that certain elements and stories are gonna resonate differently with each of us. I know a lot of fans of TDK trilogy especially really resonate with the more martyr like depiction. That just never really hit me as much, as much as I could appreciate it from an objective perspective.

The Batman on the other hand, did something no other Batman movie did. It showed me the man who saved my life. On a big screen. For everyone to see.

I will always be grateful for that. In ways I cannot describe. It's why The Batman is my favourite movie of all time.

Not every version of Batman is gonna be for everyone or have a depiction that hits everyone as hard. And that's okay, it's par for the course for a character with such a diverse history.

But this, without a shadow of a doubt, is  my Batman

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I can only speak for myself in the end, but what keeps me from connecting 100% with the film is that the mystery and investigation it uses as its "backbone", which everything depends on, just seems too flimsy to me. For example, when you're guessing who the "rat" is as early as the 44 Below scene, while all the film's characters are working out what seems to you bloated hypotheses (Oz running a drug business with corrupted cops, behind his boss's back but literally in his house), something just no longer works...

That's a huge reason I don't think I 'connect' with it - the costumes, cinematography, casting, atmosphere and style are all a 10/10 - but the writing/plot is a 6/10 or a 7/10.

A great mystery/detective film is only as good as its core mystery. It should be compelling and interesting and should keep you guessing. But I found myself guessing way ahead and not being too compelled by what Batman was investigating because it just wasn't that interesting, to me...

If this wasn't a Batman film - I wouldn't have been there.

This is why Se7en succeeds, for me. The core mystery is compelling and leads to viewer speculation.

I can appreciate many parts of this film in isolation, and the technique and overall production remains objectively outstanding, from visuals to sounds.
I still seen it four times in theaters but since, I have to admit, I can't revisit the film in its entirety. Every time, I just find myself taken out by some articulations in the story that simply don't work for me and ultimately turn it off...
I also find that many parts of the film are weighed down by static storytelling (not to be confused with a lack of action).

Also concur.

I love a slow-burn. I don't need 'action' sequences. But I think part of the problem of the film with me is that there's a consistent lack of mobility in the story. And for a 3 hour film, it needs to justify its runtime and sadly, it doesn't (to me).

But for the sequel, I'm hoping for a script that will seem tighter to me (and that's really my only expectation, by the way).
I'm going to say something controversial, but this is just my personal experience.
The Batman is a film about which I wonder a lot in terms of its reception. If it weren't for a site like Rotten Tomatoes or this forum, most of the sites I frequent, the podcasts I listen to and the people around me IRL seem increasingly iffy about the film. A sort of consensus acknowledging its formal success, followed by various criticisms ranging from characterization to screenplay.

I'll be waved off Youtube view figures for The Penguin, but I'm among those who think The Batman Part II may have a bit of a challenge on its hands to reawaken the hype.

I really hope The Batman II is tighter, indeed. Reeves would be a fool not to tighten it up - as it's an almost constant critique even in the positive reviews.

And I also share your personal experience on the reception-front. I don't think it's as clear as some suggest because most other spaces online I visit, and in my own personal life - the film's reception is far more mixed. Most seem to think it dragged or was too long, at least. But almost all - even if they liked or didn't - don't indicate to me that they'd watch it again.

Also agree that the sequel is going to have a challenge to get the hype back up. 2026 is going to be a breakneck competitive year - and comic book films from franchises already saturated have to work harder to win over audiences.

And what gets me is that people on spaces like this will argue til they're blue in the face that everyone and their mother loved The Batman - but the second I mention what I've seen and people I've talked to, suddenly "Well, this Batman is for a much more sophisticated, niche audience..."

Well...which is it?

I heard "Finally, this is MY Batman!" when Begins came out. It just feels like this new film getting that response just indicates to me the cyclical nature of Batman films and even some fickleness in the fanbase.

I wonder if (for some at least) The Batman doesn’t connect with them because it’s more focused on the detective aspect and not the action. Or, that it’s more psychological and not as theatrical.

Not at all, speaking for me. The detective aspect/psychological is my jam, 100%.

The problem for me is that I didn't feel that it was all that 'detective-y'. Outside of him looking around a crime scene a couple times, there wasn't anything present that previous Batman films didn't do. Solving Riddler's riddles? Seen that before. Him interviewing suspects? That too. Going undercover? That too.

I just feel like it was hyped as this huge detective story, and it just...kinda wasn't.

 

[WayneMB]

 

[Elayis]

It's is a vibe movie, and while I can appreciate the aesthetics on display it’s not distinct enough from what Nolan did to stand on its own and the writing isn’t sharp or clever enough to hold my interest. It feels bloated. The mystery is drawn out, but it’s not that intriguing or shocking. Batman comes off as a little slow considering how long it takes him to solve it. It’s also very self-serious. Not all movies need comedy, but a little levity would probably have helped. The movie’s very one-note, and I can see how more casual fans might grow tired of it, especially after three hours. There are also instances where the visuals and music combine to come off as comedic when its not intended. Batman walking slowly towards Penguin’s upside down car while the Bat theme blares in the background was hilarious, and not in a good way. I also didn’t care for the over-reliance on the Batsuit’s bulletproof chest piece, and how he’d just absorb machine-gun fire without any sign of damage or injury.

The lack of development for the supporting cast, as well as Bruce outside of the suit, was disappointing. Alfred and Gordon felt like obligatory appearances, not fully rounded characters. Farrell’s Penguin came off as a pastiche of De Niro’s various mobster roles, and Dano’s Riddler was hardly in the movie, most of his screen time was video recordings, not real interactions. I also really dislike Reeve’s take on Joker. The actor’s fine, but making him scarred from birth seems like a massive misstep and misunderstanding of the character. The Joker is who he is because of conscious decisions he made, not a physical deformity that he had no control over.

This was my most anticipated comic book movie from the moment Reeves was hired, and that excitement only increased when Pattinson was cast. I’m incredibly disappointed that I ended up being underwhelmed by the film, and I really wish I could enjoy it the way most posters here seem to, but like @OnLeatherWings & @J.Drangal the movie didn’t wow me in the ways I thought it would. I’m still eagerly anticipating the sequel, and I hope that with the world now established the second film can dive deeper into Bruce’s psyche and new avenues that haven’t been explored on film, but my hype level is pretty low right now given how far away the release date is. Hell, as far as we know the script isn’t even done, which means casting is still months and months away.

 

[solidsnake86]

It's interesting hearing everyone's thoughts on The Batman. For me it was a bit different, I went into it thinking, why are we getting another take on batman that is almost an extension of Nolan's universe. But after watching it, its probably one of my favourite batman films. To me, it was the world building that was great and for some reason I revisit it a lot. I think the difficulty with a batman mystery story is that, if you are a fan, you pretty much know who the villains are, so nothing is too surprising. Whether it was the penguin or Falcone that was the rat, it's not earth shattering.

The truth is, it's good to be a batman fan, although there have been misses with the films, there have been a lot more that have hit. Especially growing up in the 80s and early 90s when there were more bad comic book films then good.

As for the sequel, I think they could stand to add in some more action but if they didn't I wouldn't complain.

But I also think that we are in our 7th iteration, give or take, of this character in live action. It starts to become a bit redundant and tougher to break new ground. We have seen the fantasy batman, the realistic batman, the comedic batman etc. there is only so much you can do. I say this as a huge batman fan. Sometimes it's a bit too much and I think the character needs a bit of a rest.

 

[Frodo]

A look back at the cast of The Batman

 

[J.Drangal]

I think the difficulty with a batman mystery story is that, if you are a fan, you pretty much know who the villains are, so nothing is too surprising. Whether it was the penguin or Falcone that was the rat, it's not earth shattering.

That's true, but to a certain extent.

Again, I'm only speaking for myself, but the moment I'm shown that all the city's corrupts meet in a club where the biggest mobster parades and the police commissioner deals outside the door like a small-time drug dealer, it becomes clear to me who's in charge here...
And so, it bothers me that it never occurs to Batman or Gordon that the best suspect for the "rat" who took down one of the city's biggest mobsters should actually be the other big mobster, and how this was an opportunity for him to put his soldiers on a political level. This always seems to me far too logical to be completely ignored, and this is where the film "loses" me on its story.
Knowledge of the lore or not is irrelevant here, I simply have the impression that the characters are "forced" by the script not to reach certain conclusions, which I associate with a writing "flaw", at the very heart of the whole thing. It's a "wodunit" and there's only one suspect...

But if anyone has another way of looking at it that could patch things for me, I'd be interested!

On the other hand, I think the film may rely a little too much on the audience's prior knowledge of this world when it comes to Gordon and especially Alfred.
The scene in the hospital between him and Bruce, though very well acted, seems to me to lack any real foundation specific to these new iterations.
I have trouble to bought into the emotion because I feel like I barely know them if that makes sense...

It's interesting hearing everyone's thoughts on The Batman. For me it was a bit different, I went into it thinking, why are we getting another take on batman that is almost an extension of Nolan's universe. But after watching it, its probably one of my favourite batman films. To me, it was the world building that was great and for some reason I revisit it a lot.

For me, the world-building and atmosphere are the strong points.
That's what brought I me several times in theater to see the film. That constantly rainy Gotham, the grimy streets and the immersive sound design... It's a world I want to stay in for hours, and for the first hour of the film, it's pretty much a perfect experience for me.

It's just that from the second act onwards, and despite the fact that I'm usually a spectator more receptive to the mood than the writing, the latter starts to bug me.

The truth is, it's good to be a batman fan, although there have been misses with the films, there have been a lot more that have hit. Especially growing up in the 80s and early 90s when there were more bad comic book films then good.

Oh definitely!

I don't want to give the impression that I didn't like The Batman. I wouldn't trade this film for anything within the comic book movie genre, which, in my opinion, is still mostly made up of very average films with a few happy accidents here and there...
Batman is a character that's really blessed to attract quality creators worldwide. Long may it continue!


EDIT : Also, thanks for the share @DeadlyWest, that was a very touching post!

 

[solidsnake86]

Again, I'm only speaking for myself, but the moment I'm shown that all the city's corrupts meet in a club where the biggest mobster parades and the police commissioner deals outside the door like a small-time drug dealer, it becomes clear to me who's in charge here...
And so, it bothers me that it never occurs to Batman or Gordon that the best suspect for the "rat" who took down one of the city's biggest mobsters should actually be the other big mobster, and how this was an opportunity for him to put his soldiers on a political level. This always seems to me far too logical to be completely ignored, and this is where the film "loses" me on its story.
Knowledge of the lore or not is irrelevant here, I simply have the impression that the characters are "forced" by the script not to reach certain conclusions, which I associate with a writing "flaw", at the very heart of the whole thing. It's a "wodunit" and there's only one suspect...

Totally agreed. My only explanation to that would be the thinking that a crime boss would not be a rat because of their own code since being a rat is frowned upon, lol. They also alluded to that with Penguin making a reference to Carmine not surving because he is a rat. Penguin was almost disgusted himself by that revelation. Thinking back, when Penguin was accused himself by Gordon and Batman, he says, do you have any idea what Carmine would do to me if he heard this talk (or something along those lines). So in my mind the thought doesn't even cross any of the characters minds because it is out of the realm of possibility.

 

[J.Drangal]

Totally agreed. My only explanation to that would be the thinking that a crime boss would not be a rat because of their own code since being a rat is frowned upon, lol. They also alluded to that with Penguin making a reference to Carmine not surving because he is a rat. Penguin was almost disgusted himself by that revelation. Thinking back, when Penguin was accused himself by Gordon and Batman, he says, do you have any idea what Carmine would do to me if he heard this talk (or something along those lines). So in my mind the thought doesn't even cross any of the characters minds because it is out of the realm of possibility.

Yep, I think that was the film's intention: to make us think that the rat was necessarily someone who had no choice but to spill the beans after his arrest. But still...

I'd probably have accepted the idea of Oz being suspected of trying to double-cross his boss better if his Iceberg Lounge had been a separate location from Falcone's fortress (which would have made it more believable to me that Batman could imagine him selling drugs behind his boss's back), and if the deleted scene where he clearly formulates his ambition to Selina (and thus indirectly to Batman through the spy lens) had been kept in the final cut...

Oh well!

 

[solidsnake86]

That's a good point about the deleted scene where penguin makes that comment to Selena. It would have added to the suspicion being placed on Oz.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

 

[Eddie Dean]

Nice

 

[Rick190293]

 

[TheSmoothKnight]