Immigrant Civil Rights Movement

chaseter said:
It is funny how Lackey didn't even read the article.


I didn't have to, I googled the author's name, found the article, scanned it for the $20 billion figure and then read it was referring to.
 
chaseter said:
And sorry Mr. Sparkle. The Center is run by donations.

yeah, look dude, whatever, you're obviously not going to face up to the fact that like the article said CIS was born out of FAIR and financed by them , and though they are now separate, former members of FAIR work in CIS.

how much simpler can it be? JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ
 
Lackey said:
I didn't have to, I googled the author's name, found the article, scanned it for the $20 billion figure and then read it was referring to.
Yea good job. I doubt an author has never used the same two words twice in her whole career. Her is the quote since you were too smart to find it and read it.

"But [illegal] immigrants also use $20 billion more in welfare benefits than they contribute, he has found." The author was referring to them earlier in the sentences and was therefore implied.
 
TheSlag said:
But they are here legally, and are citizens of the country. So, I guess your solution is to just add more that cannot pay? Wouldn't THAT take away from these that are under the poverty line that you claim to care so much for?
No, illegals don't pay taxes but they take all the crappiest jobs for below minimum wage. So they contribute in other ways.

It could be argued that an illegal immigrant worker contributes more the the U.S. economy than the average tax payer. Without illegal immigrants many businesses simply wouldn't survive.
 
Look. Here's what I say. The 12 million illegals (I believe that's the number) who are already here, should be helped so they can become legal. In California, that's more voters, more electoral votes. From 55 to like 60 right there.
We should work to prevent further illegal immigration.

The guest worker program is just rubbish. That is exploiyive and to short term.
 
Mr Sparkle said:
yeah, look dude, whatever, you're obviously not going to face up to the fact that like the article said CIS was born out of FAIR and financed by them , and though they are now separate, former members of FAIR work in CIS.

how much simpler can it be? JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ
I don't need to say anything. I said it is run by donations...it is a charitable tax free organization. They have nothing to do with FAIR anymore.
 
chaseter said:
Yea good job. I doubt an author has never used the same two words twice in her whole career. Her is the quote since you were too smart to find it and read it.

"But [illegal] immigrants also use $20 billion more in welfare benefits than they contribute, he has found." The author was referring to them earlier in the sentences and was therefore implied.

From the article
So here it goes (drum roll, please): Immigrants, legal and illegal, put money into the economy and they take money out of the economy.

I know. It's shocking.

A 1998 report on California's economy found that immigrants took jobs from native-born high school dropouts and did contribute to a decline in wages.

Those same immigrants helped grow the economy 15 percentage points faster than the rest of the nation.

In 2005, Georgetown professor Harry Holzer told members of Congress that immigration has had a "modest" negative impact on the wages of less-educated native-born Americans, but that immigrant labor has reduced the price of food, clothing and housing — a distinct benefit for low-income consumers who spend much of their disposable income on these items.

Other studies have found immigrants reduce labor shortages in the health care and elder care services, thereby reducing costs of those services overall.

When it comes to education costs, it's unclear how much we're spending on the undocumented. A 2004 U.S. General Accounting Office report said current information "is not sufficient to directly estimate the state-by-state costs of educating illegal alien schoolchildren."

Then there are the remittances.

Some point out, rightly, that workers send billions of dollars to Mexico annually, making remittances the second largest source of foreign income after oil revenue. This, critics argue, is a drain on the U.S. economy.

This logic has two flaws.

First, a person should be free to spend their paycheck any way they choose, be it a remittance to family back home or a deposit into a Swiss bank account.

Second, wage earners in this country, legal or illegal, pay taxes to the tune of about $1.2 trillion, according to data from George J. Borjas, Harvard University professor of public policy and a well-established authority on immigration.

But immigrants also use $20 billion more in welfare benefits than they contribute, he has found.
 
blind_fury said:
No, illegals don't pay taxes but they take all the crappiest jobs for below minimum wage. So they contribute in other ways.

It could be argued that an illegal immigrant worker contributes more the the U.S. economy than the average tax payer. Without illegal immigrants many businesses simply wouldn't survive.
There are 18 million Americans that are jobless. Who is to say a homeless man wouldn't do that work? The only reason they have jobs is because they are taken advantage of because they have no US citizen rights and are not bound by things such as minimum wage. Those businesses know they are desperate for a buck and have hardly no formal education so they underpay them and overwork them.
 
Lackey said:
From the article
He is referring to illegal immigrants, those that do not pay taxes. How can someone who pays taxes get more money out of the government than they put in?
 
Lackey said:
private businesses always handle ANY service better than ANY government agency
That is until monopolies and oligopolies develop. Then the general public gets exploited.
 
blind_fury said:
No, illegals don't pay taxes but they take all the crappiest jobs for below minimum wage. So they contribute in other ways.

It could be argued that an illegal immigrant worker contributes more the the U.S. economy than the average tax payer. Without illegal immigrants many businesses simply wouldn't survive.

Or perhaps those businesses would have to pay more to get people to do the work (thus moving us away from becoming a 3rd world country, as opposed to moving us more towards it)... and not allow the rich to get richer off the slave labor. As well as might have to address the benefits that are included in those jobs as well, as opposed to paying such low wages without benefits, where the employees HAVE to use public services.
 
chaseter said:
There are 18 million Americans that are jobless. Who is to say a homeless man wouldn't do that work? The only reason they have jobs is because they are taken advantage of because they have no US citizen rights and are not bound by things such as minimum wage. Those businesses know they are desperate for a buck and have hardly no formal education so they underpay them and overwork them.

And... it might make the goverment reform their welfare system too... if these jobs paid better wages, and "legal" citizens that are below the poverty levels could fill them.
 
You know what I hate? Everyone thinks citizenship is the answer. Like you have to be a citizen to live in this country. God...
 
Illegal immigrants are just foolish. Those jobs that they currently are in will always be there. If they were legal citizens, they would be making a lot more money with a lot more benefits. It is stupid to not want the rights your new home offers at no charge.
 
rigel7soldiers said:
You know what I hate? Everyone thinks citizenship is the answer. Like you have to be a citizen to live in this country. God...
You don't have to be but you can drain and sponge off the legal citizens that are here. I can guarantee that if this situation turned a 180 and nobody wanted to be here...you would see the same effects happening in other countries...Mexico would certainly change their government's policies.
 
blind_fury said:
That is until monopolies and oligopolies develop. Then the general public gets exploited.


monopolies flourish under a state-controlled market
 
rigel7soldiers said:
You know what I hate? Everyone thinks citizenship is the answer. Like you have to be a citizen to live in this country. God...

Yeah... to hell with the laws.
 
chaseter said:
There are 18 million Americans that are jobless. Who is to say a homeless man wouldn't do that work? The only reason they have jobs is because they are taken advantage of because they have no US citizen rights and are not bound by things such as minimum wage. Those businesses know they are desperate for a buck and have hardly no formal education so they underpay them and overwork them.
LOL. You think some guy with a high school diploma who's last job was working at blockbusters making $7 an HOUR is really willing to do the same job as some desperate immigrant who is used to working all day in the sun for $7 a DAY???
 
TheSlag said:
Yeah... to hell with the laws.
Lets burn them...along with the American flag, and the Constitution while we are at it.
 
blind_fury said:
LOL. You think some guy with a high school diploma who's last job was working at blockbusters making $7 an HOUR is really willing to do the same job as some desperate immigrant who is used to working all day in the sun for $7 a DAY???
Why make $7 a day when you can make $7 an hour. They are too foolish to see that fact. And if push come to shove, I will do any freakin job as long as I can earn a living.
 
There's no law against living in the United States if you're not a citizen. From what I understand, all you need is a green card, or something. I'm not really all that knowledgable on the subject. But so long as you got in legally, you can live in the country without reproach, no?

And I'll have you know that my mother is not an American citizen, so could you please stop feuling my silent rage?
 
blind_fury said:
LOL. You think some guy with a high school diploma who's last job was working at blockbusters making $7 an HOUR is really willing to do the same job as some desperate immigrant who is used to working all day in the sun for $7 a DAY???

So it's OK to have slave labor as long as it's illegal immigrants?
 
chaseter said:
He is referring to illegal immigrants, those that do not pay taxes. How can someone who pays taxes get more money out of the government than they put in?


She, not he...and you're wrong. Looks like you're the one that needs to read the article.
 
rigel7soldiers said:
There's no law against living in the United States if you're not a citizen. From what I understand, all you need is a green card, or something. I'm not really all that knowledgable on the subject. But so long as you got in legally, you can live in the country without reproach, no?

And I'll have you know that my mother is not an American citizen, so could you please stop feuling my silent rage?

But the point of this thread, and the subject that spawned it is... "illegal" immigration.
 

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