The Dark Knight Rises Improving Fight Scenes

[returntovoid]

The point of this thread is not that the fight scenes need fantasy elements like The Matrix or some other slo-mo s**t^^

All I said on the first post is that it needs better choreography like all the fights in Bruce Lee movies and the bar fight in Daredevil, so, you can see what's going on when Batman is fighting.

I'm completely fine with the fight scenes in BB and TDK but I can not deny that there is room for improvement, there is definitely room for improvement for the choreography of the fight scenes.

 

[Piuchén]

I thought the fighting was just fine in both movies considering he was only up against common criminals. But, if we see him going up against someone that can match him in strength, then we should see a lot more moves from him.

Exactly, we haven"t seem yet against a very good oponent but if I don"t think the point is in more moves, maybe more aplications because when 2 great oponents fight you only see the most efectives techniques that each one has, not a lot of diferent moves.

 

[Crook]

Bourne took out several weak opponents in the span of the trilogy. Still looked bad-ass. It's not an excuse.

 

[Crook]

So to play devil's advocate here, were Batman to use more moves and show just a bit more finesse ala Jason Bourne, the question amongst many would be: was that necessary?

 

[Kane]

I'd like to see more hand-to-hand style fights. His gadgetry is nice, but to see Batman truly kick ass without some kind of weapon would be cool. Similar to his introduction in The Dark Knight. More of that kind of stuff.

 

[nathaniel]

Exactly, we haven"t seem yet against a very good oponent but if I don"t think the point is in more moves, maybe more aplications because when 2 great oponents fight you only see the most efectives techniques that each one has, not a lot of diferent moves.

Please stop mixing reality with a fantasy movie that has a slight realistic edge people!

The Ras fight scene then should have been an amazing fight scene seeing as Ras (at this point) should be the better fighter, all we got was two people wrestling like mugs in an enclosed space with the camera desperately trying to hide Neesons vast height difference to bale.

It wasnt exactly a pulse pounding final fight was it? people should just accept Nolan just cant direct an exciting fight scene.

Ras vs Batman in BB should have been a bit like Ozymandias vs niteowl and rorshach in watchmen (but without the super strentgh and other hyper fantastical stuff in that scene) where ozy is such an amazing fighter he can almost read what an opponant is going to do and in turn uses the bare miniumum in body movement and attacks to take down two expert fighters. When you think about it this fight scene is probably the best ever so far in a CBM.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

none of that matters as long as it looks good on film and keysi,no matter how good it is in reality, looks crap on film. TDK and BB big problem for me was the batman seemed like a guy in a suit rather then the batman who roams rooftops, and can move like a cat of the comics batmans three biggest attributes are his intelligence,his fighting skill and his obsession/drive to the mission imo only the drive was truly done well.

films like Chocolate show how fight scenes should be done when the female lead leaps into a pack of three guys and while in midair takes out two while strangling another is when the pathetic fights in BB/TDK look like amatuer filmaking.

Another thing they should do is bring in Freerunners to act as stunt doubles for rooftop scenes.

They Keysi Fighting Method is fine for on-screen, perhaps more so than many other martial arts. It was the fact that the actors were so slow, it was as if they were all waiting for the blows to come. There were way too many pauses in between blows, and it looked like they had just rehearsed the fights and were awaiting each others' strikes.

I would like to see more sickening, bone-crunching moves though. Like someone jumping off of something toward Batman, and Batman tackling him him mid-air and ground-and-pounding him.

 

[returntovoid]

You see these two Videos from the Batman: Arkham Asylum video game.

This is exactly how clearly I want to see Batman fighting and showing all his Martial Arts skills.

"Batman: Arkham Asylum Free Flow Combat Trailer"

"Batman: Arkham Asylum Sewer Combat"

 

[Piuchén]

Please stop mixing reality with a fantasy movie that has a slight realistic edge people!

The Ras fight scene then should have been an amazing fight scene seeing as Ras (at this point) should be the better fighter, all we got was two people wrestling like mugs in an enclosed space with the camera desperately trying to hide Neesons vast height difference to bale.

It wasnt exactly a pulse pounding final fight was it? people should just accept Nolan just cant direct an exciting fight scene.

Ras vs Batman in BB should have been a bit like Ozymandias vs niteowl and rorshach in watchmen (but without the super strentgh and other hyper fantastical stuff in that scene) where ozy is such an amazing fighter he can almost read what an opponant is going to do and in turn uses the bare miniumum in body movement and attacks to take down two expert fighters. When you think about it this fight scene is probably the best ever so far in a CBM.

Because Ozymandias was not a regular human, I hate to say it but take the fantasy and super strength from that fight wouldn"t be so great.

I still prefer the "boring and bad looking" Nolan fights than the example you named, and elbows and wrestling against a higher opponent is an intelligent tactic, maybe Nolan can direct a great fight scene but he doesn"t want for Bats, I"m sure about that since I heard: "You have skills but this is not a dance" in Begins.

 

[Crook]

Visual flair does not have to necessitate "dancing" or blatant choreography. And I wouldn't bring that up in relation to Nolan's film, btw. If you look at the Hong Kong and Penthouse fight sequences and honestly tell me it didn't look rehearsed, there's some denial going on.

 

[nathaniel]

some of you seem to be in conflict seeing batman as a real person in nolans films so the fights have to look like a real man fighting 5-10 men which is completely impossible to do.

Some of these conversations that seem to make out its so real are very odd sorry its 2009 and the fact Nolan messed up batmans skills (intelligence and fighting) irks me no end but many sem to forgive it on the alter of "Badass" as long as batman grabs a guy and growls menacingly at him its all gravy for them.

 

[nathaniel]

Visual flair does not have to necessitate "dancing" or blatant choreography. And I wouldn't bring that up in relation to Nolan's film, btw. If you look at the Hong Kong and Penthouse fight sequences and honestly tell me it didn't look rehearsed, there's some denial going on.

People are confusing the sudden cult of "thats what a reallife batman would do" idiocy with what truly would work in a movie feturing such a well known hero.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

some of you seem to be in conflict seeing batman as a real person in nolans films so the fights have to look like a real man fighting 5-10 men which is completely impossible to do.

Some of these conversations that seem to make out its so real are very odd sorry its 2009 and the fact Nolan messed up batmans skills (intelligence and fighting) irks me no end but many sem to forgive it on the alter of "Badass" as long as batman grabs a guy and growls menacingly at him its all gravy for them.

That's not true at all. I know people who have taken on that many and more.

 

[nathaniel]

That's not true at all. I know people who have taken on that many and more.

PLEASE

Tell me your joking?

 

[Cunning Stunts]

PLEASE

Tell me your joking?

No, not at all. I actually know of a master in my martial art that got jumped by ten guys, and he managed to take out all but about two, before getting taken down himself... It's how he got into my martial art, actually. The Grandmaster saw how powerful of a fighter he was, so he took it upon himself to resuscitate the guy, and began training him.

So, no, I'm not joking.

 

[Rishi]

I thought the fights in TDK were great; BBs were cut too close/editted too much but TDK was an improvement.

 

[Piuchén]

PLEASE

Tell me your joking?

Martial arts masters always tell stories like that, that"s why I prefer combat sports, you don"t see so many "secret powers".

 

[returntovoid]

that"s why I prefer combat sports

You mean, Boxing???

 

[Crook]

No, not at all. I actually know of a master in my martial art that got jumped by ten guys, and he managed to take out all but about two, before getting taken down himself... It's how he got into my martial art, actually. The Grandmaster saw how powerful of a fighter he was, so he took it upon himself to resuscitate the guy, and began training him.

So, no, I'm not joking.

Highly doubtful the guy took on all 10 at once. Unless you're the HULK, skills don't matter when you're greatly outnumbered like that.

 

[COMPO]

I think she should meld together the both styles of editing allow us to see the fight but keep it cut so its seen through the thugs eyes and makes Batman like a shadow.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Highly doubtful the guy took on all 10 at once. Unless you're the HULK, skills don't matter when you're greatly outnumbered like that.

Highly doubtful, yes, but you don't know this dude (I also said he didn't get all ten of them down). The Hulk practically pales in comparison to this man. He's trained his body to an insane level. He used to put pollen all over his feet before sparring, and during an entire match, you'd swear he didn't even touch you with any kicks during the match. Afterward, he'd bring you into a room with a black light, and you'd be covered in glowing footprints.

This guy isn't your typical "Crazy old martial arts master". He is literally one of the best martial artists you'd ever meet. Hell, his current instructor (who is apparently one of the world's best sword-training instructors) has never taken more than ten students at a time, and will only replace a student if he/she passes away or quits, for whatever reason. He was so impressed by the instructor I was talking about that he broke his own rule and took him as an eleventh student.

So, no, again, I'm not joking.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Martial arts masters always tell stories like that, that"s why I prefer combat sports, you don"t see so many "secret powers".

There's no "secret power". This isn't one of those dudes who goes on T.V. claiming he can blast you with Chi energy from across a room. Those guys do crack me up, however.

 

[Mantis Rapture]

He is literally one of the best martial artists you'd ever meet.

Name him.

Anyway...

...The fight scenes in both of Nolans 'Batman' joints were incredibly underwhelming. Poorly shot in BB (although if you watch the extras on the DVD with Buster Reeves practicing the fights you'll see they were actually pretty good pieces of choeography) and just plain poor in TDK (maybe not the final one against the SWAT team, i really enjoyed that), for a third film i definitley wanna see improvement.

Now, i'm a massive fan of Hong Kong cinema and martial arts films, but i definitley don't wanna see that over stylised stuff in a Batman film, especially in Nolans 'hyper-real' batuniverse he's created. 'Taken' is easily the blueprint that a third film should work from, and the Keysei method could easily be incorperated into that style of fight scene. I wouldn't mind a superfluous high kick or an acrobatic flourish thrown in at an appropriate moment (a swift kick to the head is remarkably demoralising to an untrained opponent), but keep it 'real', keep it gritty - all the while showing us that Batman is one of the best fighters in the world.

But what i do wanna see is Batman doing more...well, Batman stuff in the fights. Using his evironments, using the darkness, using the cape - I mean, i loved TDK and all, but in all the fights (well the garage, party and club fights) Batman just...appeared...and started fighting. And i don't mean appeared out of nowhere, i mean he appeared off camera. The penthouse party fight, for example..."You gotta a little fight in you...i like that"..."Then your gonna love me!" - Batman's just...there. Where the **** did he come from? And more importantly, why the **** did Nolan miss an opportunity for a 'classic' Batman entrance. Have him smash through a skylight. Knock the power out and appear from the shadows. That's always what i remember from the comics - a splash page of Batman bursting out of nowhere and taking some mother****ers down, not just appearing out of shot in the middle of a party where you'ld think maybe one of the Jokers goons would've spotted him.

The build up to the first confrontation in BB was near perfect. The goon gets dragged into the container. Others get picked off while batarangs take out the lights - the guy looks up and he's there, swooping down in a classic Batman moment. "WHERE ARE YOU?!?!?"...."Here"...classic build up to a fight...none of this in TDK, and it needed it.

 

[Mantis Rapture]

Ras vs Batman in BB should have been a bit like Ozymandias vs niteowl and rorshach in watchmen (but without the super strentgh and other hyper fantastical stuff in that scene) where ozy is such an amazing fighter he can almost read what an opponant is going to do and in turn uses the bare miniumum in body movement and attacks to take down two expert fighters. When you think about it this fight scene is probably the best ever so far in a CBM.

I thought that scene was garbage. Loved the film though. Rorshach fighting the cops could work in a Batman film, i guess.

The only decent fight scenes in any superhero movies i've seen were in Blade 1 & 2 and the Spiderman films - both far too superpowered to have any influence on a Batman film.

 

[griffolyon12]

I would like to see the fights a tad more stylized in the third film. As well I'd like it if we saw Batman using his brains a bit more in fights as opposed to his brawn. Him using his environment to fight his enemies.