Improving Spider-Man 3 (here we go again)

[Jordacar]

After seeing Spider-Man 3, I find that my mind is doing the same thing it was doing this time last summer when I saw X-Men 3, which is thinking of ways to make it better. Of course, it's totally pointless because the movie's already out, and it's totally unfair because the writers had a difficult job, and I probably couldn't have done much better if it was my job. But I can't help it. So I might as well share some of my ideas with you guys.

First of all, here's some of the things I WOULDN'T change:
-The cast. I was okay with Topher Grace as Eddie; clearly they want to represent Eddie as the dark side of Peter, which was fine; as cool as a villain as Carnage is, I could care less if he appears in the sequels or if Grace would have fit that role better. Bryce Dallas Howard was fine as Gwen, even if she didn’t do much. Tom Haden Church did very well as Sandman. And the always reliable James Cromwell comes through as Captain Stacy, even if he had even less to do than his daughter.
-The action scenes. The effects and the fights were top notch, with Spidey defeating Venom a high point.
-The Peter vs. Harry subplot. They’ve pretty much been building up to this for the last two movies, so it was good to see it pay off, and to see these two former best friends trying to kill each other. It felt a little awkward at times, but I survived. And I did dig the team-up at the end; it gave us more action and let Harry die a hero.

Now, here's some problems I had and how I'd fix them:

Problem #1: Flint Marko’s transformation into Sandman and the appearance of the symbiote are way too contrived. Flint, the guy who really killed Uncle Ben, just happens to stumble onto this test site and gain superpowers, while the symbiote appears out of nowhere.
Solution:
-Flint Marko, still in jail, volunteers for an experiment that will pay for his daughter’s treatment (which we will just call “the Sandman experiment”).
-A lab is analyzing a strange black substance brought back from the moon on a mission led by John Jameson (mentioned but not seen). That lab is in the same building as the Sandman experiment.
-The black substance is stored away. The Sandman experiment commences, but something goes horribly wrong. Cue awesome and scary transformation scene as Flint is atomized and the lab goes completely haywire and a fire breaks out. The whole building blacks out, including the floor with the black substance. When the emergency power kicks in, the black substance is gone.
-Spider-Man arrives to help get the doctors out of the burning lab. During this time, the black stuff attaches itself to Peter without him noticing.

Okay, so that connects the two origins together and gives us some motivation for the appearances of these two new villains. Problem #1 is solved.

Problem #2-3: So Peter gets into a fight, accidentally hits MJ, and decides that that’s the last straw and he must get the suit off. Boo hoo. Oh, and Gwen has nothing to do AT ALL.
Solution: Spidey, in the black costume, catches up with Sandman on a rooftop and beats the crap out of him. Sandman strikes a chimney and cracks it. Spidey goes into a rage, determined to take his revenge for Uncle Ben. He is so preoccupied with beating Sandman that he doesn’t notice the collapsing chimney. (The next bit is straight out of the comics). The chimney falls. Captain George Stacy is there to push a kid out of the way of the falling debris, and is crushed. Spidey turns and realizes what has just happened. He abandons Sandman and goes down to the street to find George underneath the debris. Dying, Stacy tells Spidey that he knows he’s really Peter, and to look after Gwen. He dies.

Sandman escapes, only to be caught by a special SWAT team armed with water hoses and liquid nitrogen tanks to put him on ice. He is apprehended and taken to prison (we’ll come back to that).

Jameson, the public, and Gwen all savage Spidey for the captain’s death. Peter, devastated, realizes that the black costume has turned him into a murderous monster, and goes to the bell tower to get the suit off. After that, I say he heads to a scrapyard to take out his frustrations at his utter failure as a hero before falling into MJ’s arms.

Pretty heavy, huh? I can’t help it, I’m very proud of that one. After that, there would have to be about 15 or 20 minutes without any action at all, to allow the characters to come to terms with Captain Stacy’s death and give the audience a chance to rest before the big finale.

Problem #4: Sandman and Venom just happen to meet on the street and decide to team up.
Solution: Remember how Sandman was apprehended? He’s cooling his heels in a special prison, until Eddie comes along,(using the symbiote’s disguising powers to infiltrate the place) and breaks him out.

Quick short action scene, a little less happenstance. Problem #4 is solved.

Problem #5: Gwen and MJ both need more to do.
Solution: Sandman and Venom kidnap both MJ AND Gwen (duh!).

I like this one. Gwen doesn’t have much experience as a damsel, so MJ could try to keep her calm, and we get some nice chemistry there.

Problem #6: Every villain knows Spidey’s identity by the end of the movies.
Solution: Sandman never finds out. After the big battle, Spidey merely gives Sandman an address. Sandman goes to the address and Peter is there. Sandman explains what happened that night (pretty much the same as in the movie), and Peter forgives him.

I have a few other ideas for scenes, but that’s pretty much the gist of it. Any objections or any other ideas, let’s hear ‘em.

 

[spideydave]

No we dont need sandman at all though unless Sony was willing to make a 3hour flick in order to FULLY explore it. Topher Grace is not Venom. We dont need a dark side of Peter. I would of just kept The Harry/ New Goblin stuff and have him torture Peter with randomly attacking Peter which is what he did in the comics. Matt Dillon would of pulled it off perfectly

 

[Masteryada]

I like how you linked the Sandman and Symbiote origins. That would be a definite improvement. I don’t like Spidey being responsible for Captain Stacy’s death though.

 

[bulok]

I like how you linked the Sandman and Symbiote origins. That would be a definite improvement. I don’t like Spidey being responsible for Captain Stacy’s death though.

He always had been.

It sucks that Marko is now responsible for Uncle Ben's death which completely exonerates Peter. So its ok that he let that burglar go now cos you know, his inaction doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

[Venomfan]

He always had been.

It sucks that Marko is now responsible for Uncle Ben's death which completely exonerates Peter. So its ok that he let that burglar go now cos you know, his inaction doesn't necessarily mean anything.

well if peter did stop the burgler the gun wouldnt have gone off in flints hand

 

[Masteryada]

He always had been.

Well in the comic Spidey’s was trying to stop Ock and he made a mistake. Yes he’s partially responsible for Stacy’s death but his intentions were good.

The way Jordacar describes it above it sounds like another Uncle Ben scenario. Captain Stacy dies because Peter neglects his responsibilities in order to pursue Sandman. That’s a major difference IMO.

It sucks that Marko is now responsible for Uncle Ben's death which completely exonerates Peter. So its ok that he let that burglar go now cos you know, his inaction doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Like Venomfan said, Peter still feels responsible because the burglar ran into Flint causing the gun to go off.

 

[Jordacar]

Well in the comic Spidey’s was trying to stop Ock and he made a mistake. Yes he’s partially responsible for Stacy’s death but his intentions were good.

The way Jordacar describes it above it sounds like another Uncle Ben scenario. Captain Stacy dies because Peter neglects his responsibilities in order to pursue Sandman. That’s a major difference IMO.

That was the idea. I thought that to make the story darker, something very bad has to happen to Peter as a result of the black costume, and what better way to do that than if his thirst for revenge would cause him to fail Uncle Ben all over again? Plus I thought it was a dramatic way of crossing Captain Stacy's death with the black costume story.

 

[ESchorcho]

I definitely agree with Jordacar. Peter should have done something very horrible while under the influence of the black suit. Peter embraces the black suit and the first thing he does is go shopping and dances around the street? It was kind of hard to believe that this was the same director that made the Evil Dead movies. Venom should have been a truly menacing character in the movie series, not lame final act.

Also, Sandman is trying to kill Spiderman but at the end when he knows he's been beaten he is supposed to be a sympathetic character?

 

[xii22_loop]

thats a relaly good idea Jordacar about tying the black goo and Sandman together. usually fan ideas can be cheesy, but thats a good idea. props

 

[t-bowdy]

Also, Sandman is trying to kill Spiderman but at the end when he knows he's been beaten he is supposed to be a sympathetic character?

Sandman was a flawed character. He turned to crime only to help his daughter.

 

[t-bowdy]

Also, Sandman is trying to kill Spiderman but at the end when he knows he's been beaten he is supposed to be a sympathetic character?

Sandman was a flawed individual. He turned to crime to save his daughter. He was never a truly a diabolical villian. Just a bloke who's luck had run quite dry :P

 

[t-bowdy]

Also, Sandman is trying to kill Spiderman but at the end when he knows he's been beaten he is supposed to be a sympathetic character?

Sandman was a flawed individual. He turned to crime to save his daughter. He was never a truly a diabolical villian. Just a bloke who's luck had run quite dry :P

 

[TheDemon'sHead]

I like those ideas but I also had some of my own. (I think we all did)

Black Costume:
The Black Costume should have been a science experiment and not some goo that fell from the sky. It would have been interesting if the symbiote was actually created by Curt Conners as an attempt to regenerate his arm. Thus setting up Lizard in movie 4. It eventually finds Peter somehow since his body is different than other people.

Sandman:
As much as I liked what they did with him in the movie I would have preferred if he was a goon that Harry hired and made into the Sandman to hunt down and kill Peter. Harry at the beginning thinks that he can't kill his own best friend so he hires people to do it for him. After Sandman fails Harry decides to take his father's serum.

In general I would have liked to see Sandman and Harry as the main antagonists and have the Black Costume story running in the background. That way you can have Peter reject it at the end and have Venom come around for the 4th film where he terrorizes MJ at the beginning. Like the rest of you I thought the Black Costume was too rushed. It should have carried over for at least another movie.

 

[TwilightPro101]

Shouldn't have killed off Venom so easily and quickly.

 

[Dr. Fate]

Shouldn't this be in the Spider-Man forums?

 

[Jordacar]

I like those ideas but I also had some of my own. (I think we all did)

Black Costume:
The Black Costume should have been a science experiment and not some goo that fell from the sky. It would have been interesting if the symbiote was actually created by Curt Conners as an attempt to regenerate his arm. Thus setting up Lizard in movie 4. It eventually finds Peter somehow since his body is different than other people.

Sandman:
As much as I liked what they did with him in the movie I would have preferred if he was a goon that Harry hired and made into the Sandman to hunt down and kill Peter. Harry at the beginning thinks that he can't kill his own best friend so he hires people to do it for him. After Sandman fails Harry decides to take his father's serum.

In general I would have liked to see Sandman and Harry as the main antagonists and have the Black Costume story running in the background. That way you can have Peter reject it at the end and have Venom come around for the 4th film where he terrorizes MJ at the beginning. Like the rest of you I thought the Black Costume was too rushed. It should have carried over for at least another movie.

Those are all interesting ideas; the black costume was a science experiment in the Ultimate books, and that wasn't too bad. I don't know about Harry sending goons to kill Peter because he can't kill his best friend himself. It seems to me that Harry is so full of hate by this time that he would ONLY want to do it himself, rather than sending someone else who would just screw it up. Saving Venom for movie 4 might have worked, it might even have been better, but I'm curious to see if it is possible to get three main villains into one story.

Shouldn't have killed off Venom so easily and quickly

Agreed. They should have set up Venom to return in the 4th film.

Shouldn't this be in the Spider-Man forums?

You're probably right...

A couple new ideas:
-Like I said, after Peter gets the costume off, he heads to a scrap yard to take his frustrations out on some innocent used cars. Then he shows up at MJ's (where else can he go?), his hands all bloody. He tells her about what happened while she patches up his hands.
-Later, Peter goes to Gwen's house as Spider-Man to basically try to beg for forgiveness. Gwen pulls a gun on him (she's the daughter of a police captain, after all), and with tears in her eyes calls him a murderer. Spidey carefully explains that before he became Spidey, someone important to him died because he wanted revenge, and that the black costume actually made him stronger, but caused him to forget what was important to him. He then explains that, after he takes care of Sandman once and for all, he'll leave his fate in Gwen's hands; if she wants, he'll burn his costume and find a way to be rid of his powers forever, and Spider-Man will be no more. She basically tells him to get out of her house before she shoots. He obeys.
-During the big finale, Sandman starts to have second thoughts and turns against Venom. Venom turns the tables (turns all the sprinklers on or something), and puts Sandman out of the fight.
-Venom approaches Gwen, and she is able to see what her ex has become, and what that costume must have done to Spider-Man. She looks Venom right in the eye and is like, "Spider-Man didn't kill my father. You did."

 

[DawnWarrior]

I’ve put this off for freaking ever, and now it’s time to get this out. It’s my turn to take a crack at repairing Spider-Man 3. I hope you folks still remember the movie. Here goes.

WHAT WORKS:
-The effects, the fights, all of it works about as well as it should.
-Harry. Despite the movie feeling very crowded with stories and subplots, his still works. And since it’s been building for the last two movies, it’s not worth holding it off till Spider-Man 4. My version would still feel crowded, but I wouldn’t change much of his story.
-The cast and the performances. That was fine. It was the script that failed them.
-All the scenes with JJ. Keep them exactly as is.
-The scene where Spidey gets the black costume off. (Almost. More on that later).

WHAT DOESN’T:
Problem #1: There’s way too much contrivance with Sandman and Venom’s origins, even by superhero standards.
Problem #2: Several things about the black costume. a) They didn’t do the costume’s powers. All it seems to do is enhance his strength and agility slightly and make him a dick. b) Playing the “dark side” stuff for laughs. About 10 minutes of “Spiderday Night Fever” that could be filled with darker stuff. Let’s see him beating up and torturing criminals and enjoying it and turning into a real bad boy, not a dork who thinks he’s a bad boy.
Problem #3: Gwen and her Dad. They’re both incidental. They deserve better.
Problem #4: Peter is too much of an idiot to MJ. In previous films Peter’s feelings towards MJ were paramount to the story at large, but here it doesn’t fit as well.

SOME THINGS I WOULD CHANGE:
-Bring in Electro. Yes it’s crazy, but hear me out. They don’t need to show his origin, just open the movie with Spidey fighting him and bringing him in. Afterwards, he can join up with MJ in the park.

Solving Problem #1: Origins too contrived.
-Jordacar had a fantastic idea with the duel origins:

Flint Marko’s transformation into Sandman and the appearance of the symbiote are way too contrived. Flint, the guy who really killed Uncle Ben, just happens to stumble onto this test site and gain superpowers, while the symbiote appears out of nowhere.
Solution:
-Flint Marko, still in jail, volunteers for an experiment that will pay for his daughter’s treatment (which we will just call “the Sandman experiment”).
-A lab is analyzing a strange black substance brought back from the moon on a mission led by John Jameson (mentioned but not seen). That lab is in the same building as the Sandman experiment.
-The black substance is stored away. The Sandman experiment commences, but something goes horribly wrong. Cue awesome and scary transformation scene as Flint is atomized and the lab goes completely haywire and a fire breaks out. The whole building blacks out, including the floor with the black substance. When the emergency power kicks in, the black substance is gone.
-Spider-Man arrives to help get the doctors out of the burning lab. During this time, the black stuff attaches itself to Peter without him noticing.

Okay, so that connects the two origins together and gives us some motivation for the appearances of these two new villains.

Works for me. I wish I could do something like what was done on the ‘90s cartoon with the arrival of the symbiote (my favorite scene on the ‘toon), but there’s just too much reworking involved there. But if it was 2 movies, then it would work!

-The cartoon worked in a great dream sequence from the comics where Peter’s two costumes fight over him, and the black one swallows him up. Maybe work that in when the symbiote takes him. Probably end up on the cutting room floor anyway.

Solving Problem #2a: The symbiote’s power.
-The black costume should give him more power. Let’s see some major strength amplification (punching through walls, throwing cars), shape-shifting (that slick black outfit he wears should just be the symbiote), and even stopping gunshot wounds. Make it a real temptation.

Solving Problem #2b: Peter’s goofy dark side. To me, this is the biggest mishandling in the movie, so it will take several ideas to make it right:
-Show more of Spidey taking down common criminals with the black suit, have it harken back to those scenes in the first film, except this time Spidey is brutal.
-When Peter goes to Harry’s house and they fight, amp that up even more. Have them tear apart the mansion, or at least a portion of it. Moreover, the scene should be a result of the suit making Peter more vengeful, so it could be quite a bit later in the movie. When Harry first steals MJ (both in the movie and in my version), Peter kind of lets it happen. Eventually, Peter decides to take Harry down, regardless of whether or not Harry’s memory came back.

Continuing this with solving Problem #3: The Stacy’s
-Jordacar had another great idea that I’m gonna rip-off wholesale, where Captain Stacey dies. Good stuff:

Spidey, in the black costume, catches up with Sandman on a rooftop and beats the crap out of him.

This would be a major action scene, like the Doc Ock fight, only here most of the destruction would be caused by Spidey.

Sandman strikes a chimney and cracks it. Spidey goes into a rage, determined to take his revenge for Uncle Ben. He is so preoccupied with beating Sandman that he doesn’t notice the collapsing chimney. (The next bit is straight out of the comics). The chimney falls. Captain George Stacy is there to push a kid out of the way of the falling debris, and is crushed. Spidey turns and realizes what has just happened. He abandons Sandman and goes down to the street to find George underneath the debris. Stacy dies in Spidey's arms.

Sandman escapes, only to be caught by a special SWAT team armed with water hoses and liquid nitrogen tanks to put him on ice. He is apprehended and taken to prison (we’ll come back to that).

Jameson, the public, and Gwen all savage Spidey for the captain’s death. Peter, devastated, realizes that the black costume has turned him into a murderous monster, and goes to the bell tower to get the suit off.

Yeah, love it.

The scene where he gets the black suit off is pretty cool, but it can be way better. When he sits on the tower contemplating what he’s done, we see some flashbacks from the other movies, words from Uncle Ben and Aunt May about responsibility and revenge, Conners talking about the suit amplifying aggression, the avalanche of negativity about Captain Stacy dying, and then he descends into the belltower. Now we come to what should be the emotional climax of the film. Kick on some creepy children’s choir that Danny Elfman always does for Burton while Peter’s trying to rip the suit off, which plays exactly as before. However the stuff with Eddie coming in, I’d space that apart so that just after the suit is completely off Peter, it then gets on Eddie, rather than both happening at the same time. Make the scene about Peter, not the symbiote.

So anyway, Peter crawls out of the belltower, the symbiote gets on Eddie, he becomes Venom, roars, TO BE CONTINUED!!
Yeah, I wish. Breaking it into 2 movies and converting the entire last reel into another film would solve a lot of other major problems, but we don’t have time for rational solutions. It’s times like this when I’m somewhat glad I’m not in charge of making these movies.

Remedying Problem #4: Peter and MJ
-Have them stop acting like idiots. Rather than an organic continuation of their characters like we got in the second film, what we get in part 3 feels like another contrivance of the story to drive them apart. It’s definitely not the film’s worst crime, but it’s possible for them to be more mature and still become strained in their relationship.
-Anyway, after Peter gets the black suit off, now it’s time for a long pause in the action before the grand finale, about 15 or 20 minutes that is just character stuff. I like some of the stuff that’s in the movie already, but here’s what I’d also have. Peter, hurting all over after getting the suit off, collapses at MJ’s doorstep. She nurses him back to health. When he wakes up, he freaks out like the suit’s still crawling on him, thrashing wildly and screaming, eventually crawling up onto the ceiling. When MJ calms him down, he remembers where he is, and says, “I got it off.” He explains what happened with the suit and Captain Stacy, and though they’re both still smarting, the two of them start to rekindle their relationship.
-As for what’s in the movie already, I’d definitely keep Peter taking a shower after getting the suit off, and the scene with Aunt May, where she talks about how he has to forgive himself; in the movie all he did was “hurt MJ” which, whaaaa; in my version, he got Captain Stacey killed and a host of other things. That’s gonna take some serious forgiveness!

Now for my favorite alterations:
-Eddie arrives at the prison, using the suit as a cop disguise, and breaks out Electro and Sandman (I always imagine him using the symbiote to pick a lock). I would go with a subtle approach here, where we don’t see Eddie killing a lot of people, but we know it’s happening. Build up a sense of dread.

MJ sees that Peter is putting his costume back on. He says that there’s something else he has to take care of. For that, we go back to Jordacar:

Later, Peter goes to Gwen's house as Spider-Man to basically try to beg for forgiveness. Gwen pulls a gun on him (she's the daughter of a police captain, after all), and with tears in her eyes calls him a murderer. Spidey carefully explains that before he became Spidey, someone important to him died because he wanted revenge, and that the black costume actually made him stronger, but caused him to forget what was important to him. He then explains that, after he takes care of Sandman once and for all, he'll leave his fate in Gwen's hands; if she wants, he'll burn his costume and find a way to be rid of his powers forever, and Spider-Man will be no more. He leaves.

So now, Peter’s feeling better, he’s got his strength back (a day or two would have passed since he got the suit off), and it looks to him like he might be able to come back from this whole mess. Of course, that means the grace period is over and the ***** is about to hit the fan.

-Not long after Spidey leaves, Eddie arrives at Gwen’s door, saying, “Honey, I’m home.” He starts to turn into Venom, Gwen gets scared and slams the door, and Venom punches through the door and grabs her, END OF SCENE . Spidey arrives back at MJ’s to see that she’s been taken by Sandman. Realizing his identity has been compromised (again), he calls Aunt May to make sure she’s okay. He tells her to get out of her apartment and far away.

-Peter goes to Harry’s to ask for help (same as before). At the end, when Harry tells him to get out, Peter just says, “Goodbye, Harry.” And if I was the director, I’d say something like this to Mr. Maguire: “When you say those two words, ‘Goodbye Harry,’ I want you to forgive your best friend, and hope that he forgives you, because you’re never going to see him again.”

And now, the finale. There’s not much I would really change, other than incorporating the changes I’ve already made. So, to review: The bad guys broke out of prison and now have MJ and Gwen, and maybe Electro is there too (bear with me on that last one).
Now, with 2 heroes (Spidey and Harry) and 3 villains (Venom, Sandman and Electro) plus 2 girlfriends (MJ and Gwen) I’m not gonna pretend that I know how the whole scene would play out. It would have to be the most complicated extended action scene in just about any superhero movie ever made (it kind of is already). So here’s a few things that would probably be in there:
-A little less of Peter losing his mask. I’m sure if I were one of the filmmakers, I would keep finding excuses for him to take off his mask so Tobey can act and emote, but enough is enough. Plus, Eddie should only show his face one time, and the rest should be all Venom.
-That bit with Jameson and the little girl’s camera. That stays.
-Before Harry arrives, the bad guys really take turns beating Spidey to a pulp. Really make us and Peter think that he’s going to die. Remember in the first film when Green Goblin beats the snot out of Peter? That’s about the level of brutality that should be going on here.
-MJ has been in danger more times than Gwen, but Gwen’s father is a police captain, so there could be some interesting chemistry there rather than just two screaming ladies. Plus, both girls should get one or two hits in with their captors.
-Harry knocks out Venom (as before), and Harry and Spidey take turns with the other two foes.
-More teamwork plays with Peter and Harry. That’s how they should gain the upperhand on the foes, who are less interested in helping each other.
-If Electro’s there, then he would find out the hard way that Harry’s suit is insulated and his board is made of hard plastics, so his electricity powers wouldn’t work as well. Harry takes him down with a water tower.

After the finale, there are a few things I’m on the fence about for the rest of the movie:
-I kind of liked the resolution with Sandman, but I’m also getting sick of all the bad guys discovering Peter’s secret.
-I would try really hard not to kill Eddie. If it was two movies, I might let him go, but if we only get Venom in one movie before he dies, I would feel really compelled to leave the door open for him to come back somehow. There are of course some problems, like the fact that Eddie knows Peter’s secret, and the bump-on-the-head-memory-loss trick didn’t work so well on Harry. So maybe killing him is the way to go. Though I’d love to have that teaser at the end for the symbiote returning (maybe as Carnage!)
-Should Peter get back with MJ, end up with Gwen, or be alone again? I’m really not sure. Getting back with MJ seems a little redundant to me, and ending up with Gwen a little random. So him being alone again, echoing the first film, is probably the conclusion I would land on. But that’s me.

Well, that’s it. Whew! See why this took me so damn long? I do believe that covers everything. And I sincerely hope dear Mr. Raimi can claw his way back up from this mess and be cool again.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I can't remember it enough to go into detail like you guys did. I only saw it once the day it came out and never saw it again. All I can really say is the film was about Spider-Man's dark side so it needed to focus more on that. I know that the subplot with Harry and the subplot with Sandman did go hand and hand with his dark side, but it was just too much for one movie. Focus on his dark side and how he overcomes it and leave it at that. Kudos for Bryce Dallas Howard...she was a good casting choice.

 

[Jordacar]

Kudos for Bryce Dallas Howard...she was a good casting choice.

Yeah, if only she had something to do.

 

[Warhammer]

My biggest gripes of the film were too many storylines, some poor character development, and terrible final products of build-ups from the first two films (The Harry situation was a glaring problem).

 

[Blader5489]

A lot of you guys are saying that SM3 should have ended with Eddie becoming Venom, setting him up as the main villain for SM4. The problem is that none of the cast and crew knew if they would be back for a fourth movie or not. Trying to set up Venom for SM4, or splitting SM3 into two separate movies, would be irresponsible. Thus, SM3 had to be made as if it were the last Spider-Man movie for Raimi and co.

Also, for people saying the black suit needed to show off more of Peter's angry side, keep in mind there was a whole montage of black Spidey beating the crap out robbers. It just ended up getting cut. Hell, there was a LOT of footage cut from this film: further character development for Sandman and Eddie, more black suit Spider-Man, and more Venom at the final battle.

So if you really want to improve SM3, force Sony to release the extended cut sooner rather than later (as in 3 years from now).

 

[Green Goblin 1964]

nothing in the movie needs to be changed IMO.

 

[Jordacar]

Thus, SM3 had to be made as if it were the last Spider-Man movie for Raimi and co.

Yeah, and it worked so well with X-Men 3. I think what DawnWarrior is implying is that they could have shot SM3 and 4 back to back like with the Pirates of the Caribbean sequels (granted those were parts 2 and 3, but you get the idea), then released them a year or 9 months apart.

Also, for people saying the black suit needed to show off more of Peter's angry side, keep in mind there was a whole montage of black Spidey beating the crap out robbers. It just ended up getting cut.

They should've left it in.

 

[Blader5489]

Yeah, and it worked so well with X-Men 3. I think what DawnWarrior is implying is that they could have shot SM3 and 4 back to back like with the Pirates of the Caribbean sequels (granted those were parts 2 and 3, but you get the idea), then released them a year or 9 months apart.

No, the cast was only contracted for three films. Even now, it's still up in the air whether or not Maguire and Dunst will return. Filming SM3 and 4 back-to-back would have been a mess, legally and financially.

 

[The_Mystery]

Just 3 things: 1. NO DANCE NUMBERS!!! 2. The creation of Venom should have ended the movie and segued into the 4th movie. 3. STOP REVEALING SPIDEY'S IDENTITY TO EVERY VILLAIN IN EVERY MOVIE!!!!

Other than that, I pretty much enjoyed Spidey 3.