In the Kitchen with DKDetective and InCali: All Things Food, Wine, and Spirits, Etc.

DKDetective said:
Haha, yes, sorrel has got an acidic lemon taste, which is why it is so great for this salmon dish. If you can't get sorrel, which can happen to those of us outside California, baby spinach and some extra lemon juice in the sauce works as a decent substitute (which is what I did). The salmon is to be cooked rare-ish, like the Basque people traditional do. Just 15 secs a side.

Interesting about the lighter "Syrah". I would have never considered that Most of the Syrah, I drink are strong, powerful, long lived wines from the Northern Rhone, such as Hermitage, Cote Rotie, Cornas, etc., which are really best suited for rich, fatty red meat or game... Wait a second, what happened to the me no like purple teeth, red wine bad? :funny:

When it comes to red wine and fish, I lean towards Pinot Noir (Burgundy) or Gamay (Beaujolais). This dish definitely calls for a white wine though, a Sauvignon Blanc from the Loire Valley like a Sancerre if you have it. It's a perfect match for citrus, grassy/herbaceous, flinty notes, and high acidity of such wines.

Unfortunately, I did not have any, so I opened a white Hermitage, which is a very rich, opulent wine - low acidity and well oaked. Paired well with the fattiness of the very high quality salmon and richness of the cream sauce.

On the general topic of wine, I'm going to say something controversial and which you might take as a personal affront... I'm not a huge fan of California wines and find them to be overrated. I'm just not a fan of the blockbuster style that a lot of California vineyards go for, with the high alcohol, concentration, etc. I appreciate the complexity and craftsmanship of the well-done examples, but I don't find them especially pleasing to drink. I find them overpowering with food. They are also overpriced here due to popular demand and I suspect supply issues due to the wildfires...

I still have a few nice Napa Cabs and such in my cellar, but I no real interest in drinking them, except when I make a French Laundry dish.

I generally prefer Old World wines, French in particular, but also Italian, Spanish, German, etc. I prefer the lower alcohol, the freshness from the higher acidity, and the savoury, non-fruit secondary notes. I find them more refreshing and a better match for food. Also, given how popular California wines are, the budget or mid-level French and other European wines tend to be a much better value. If I am craving a more New World style wine with more fruit, I lean to Argentina or Chile these days. They have phenomenal quality for price.
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Pinots and Gamays.....yeah. Agreed. A nice Gamay would do really well,. WRT Cali wines, there is SO much going on and so much variety, that the ones escaping the state aren't the ones I would think anyone would generally care for if you are a wine lover. My ex house mate is Basque and her family owns a winery. She is exceedingly picky and I remember her telling me that the approach in Europe is very different. Wines in California are generally made to be drinkable early while many of the European wines are not. She also says, after visiting a S***Ton of wineries in the Sonoma and Napa Valleys that the grapes and conditions here are as good as they are anywhere. Anyone that is interested in wine for it's alcohol content should just go sit on a corner and slam some Thunderbird.

A funny story....when she first came to the US, we were at a sort of middling, greasy spoon restaurant and she ordered a Chablis (LOL). When it came she almost spit it out on the table and almost literally screamed that she wanted to see the bottle. They looked confused and brought her out the box. One of the funniest things I've ever seen and, to this day, I don't think I've heard so many F bombs dropped in such a short period of time. I guess an $8, 1.75 liter of California Almaden "Chablis' wouldn't quite cut it in France. My buddy who brought her over to the states told me later, that he saw that coming a mile away. When I asked why he didn't warn her, he looked at me, kinda laughed and said "entertainment value".

EDIT: One of the funnier lines was when they said "We're offended" and she said "Well I'm French".
 
InCali said:
Pinots and Gamays.....yeah. Agreed. A nice Gamay would do really well,. WRT Cali wines, there is SO much going on and so much variety, that the ones escaping the state aren't the ones I would think anyone would generally care for if you are a wine lover. My ex house mate is Basque and her family owns a winery. She is exceedingly picky and I remember her telling me that the approach in Europe is very different. Wines in California are generally made to be drinkable early while many of the European wines are not. She also says, after visiting a S***Ton of wineries in the Sonoma and Napa Valleys that the grapes and conditions here are as good as they are anywhere. Anyone that is interested in wine for it's alcohol content should just go sit on a corner and slam some Thunderbird.

A funny story....when she first came to the US, we were at a sort of middling, greasy spoon restaurant and she ordered a Chablis (LOL). When it came she almost spit it out on the table and almost literally screamed that she wanted to see the bottle. They looked confused and brought her out the box. One of the funniest things I've ever seen and, to this day, I don't think I've heard so many F bombs dropped in such a short period of time. I guess an $8, 1.75 liter of California Almaden "Chablis' wouldn't quite cut it in France. My buddy who brought her over to the states told me later, that he saw that coming a mile away. When I asked why he didn't warn her, he looked at me, kinda laughed and said "entertainment value".

EDIT: One of the funnier lines was when they said "We're offended" and she said "Well I'm French".
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There is no doubt that California has some great terroirs and that there is abouta s much wine variety in the state as in the entirety of France. While I agree with your point that the best quality, value wines probably don't leave the state, I have had several big name, high end California wines (Chateau Montelena, Stag's Leap, Shafer, Duckhorn, etc.) wines with excellent reviews and great pedigrees, and in large part it is a stylistic thing for me. Although exceptionally well-made, I find they focus too much for my taste on ripeness, concentration, and fruit forward flavours at the expense of acidity and overly high alcohol . I can enjoy and appreciate them, but if I had the choice, I prefer a Bordeaux over a Napa Cab when I want a Cabernet-based wine. And as you mention, much of that is due to the different approach. I prefer the savoury secondary notes you get with a good Bordeaux (cedar, graphite, leather, mint) over the black fruit explosion and baking spices of a Napa Cab. The worst are the cheaper ones that try to mimic the style of the big Napa Cabs at a cheaper price point... For instance, I can't stand McManis Cab. Everyone in my city is obsessed with it. It is served at every wedding, charity dinner, or professional event.

Of the California wines I have had that I have enjoyed, it tends to be the ones that are a big more Old World in style, eg. Stag's Leap Wine Cellars, Sequoia Grove, and Duckhorn. A lot of what I find disagreeable with California wines could in part be climate change related... too much heat and dryness tends to be associated with over ripeness, high alcohol, and low acidity. Ironically, climate change is actually causing Bordeaux to become more consistent, where cooler temperatures used to make it a gamble whether or not all of the Cab would ripen fully before fall rains and frost (which is why it is planted and blended with earlier ripening merlot and other varietals there in case the Cab grapes don't ripen on time or the yields are low).
 
As you can imagine, outside of Napa/Sonoma, there are a lot of different climates in California and they lend themselves to certain types of wine. Russian River, Paso Robles, and even Santa Barbara make a lot of wines. Places you don't hear much about like Aubert and Kistler make some very good wines as does Dry Creek and others. I imagine location rather dictates what works well and what doesn't no matter where you are. I think part of this is what you're used to. As my wife will often say when she likes something "It's just what I expected".
 
BTW, the "big" name wineries, while they can be quite good, are way overpriced. Cakebread, Caymus, Far Niente to name a few. Very drinkable, but should be for what they charge. If it ain't drinkable, you shouldn't be charging 50-100 bucks. :cwink:
 
InCali said:
As you can imagine, outside of Napa/Sonoma, there are a lot of different climates in California and they lend themselves to certain types of wine. Russian River, Paso Robles, and even Santa Barbara make a lot of wines. Places you don't hear much about like Aubert and Kistler make some very good wines as does Dry Creek and others. I imagine location rather dictates what works well and what doesn't no matter where you are. I think part of this is what you're used to. As my wife will often say when she likes something "It's just what I expected".
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Have actually drank wines from all of the above bolded regions/producers. We quite like Hitching Post from Santa Barbara, solid Pinot. Although when it comes to New World Pinots, I do generally prefer Oregon and New Zealand Pinots (cooler climates, more like Europe).

Yeah, when it comes to winemaking, you have to grow what suits your terroir. We have a couple of decent wine regions in Ontario, the Niagara Peninsula, and Prince Edward County. Due to our cooler climate they are best suited to the grape varietals and wine styles you see in northern France and the German Rhineland, Burgundian Chardonnay and Pinot Noir, Champagne-style sparking lines, and Germany Riesling, etc. Nevertheless, due to the crazy popularity of bold, fruity California reds like Cab, Merlot, Zinfandel, etc. here, guess what too many of our vineyards try to make to please the market... Green, leafy, underripe Cab is a sin against the universe as far as I am concerned. :funny:

Yeah, I don't normally buy based on name. Actually, I find Caymus very disagreeable. It is the poster child for the type of big, brash, syrupy Napa Cab that I can't stand. I got a bottle as a gift and re-gifted it to somehow who I knew would enjoy it.

I do like to try some of the big name wines like Stag's Leap and Montelena, due their historic provenance, like winning the Judgment of Paris 1976, but typically when I buy wines, I look for things in my price point with strong scores from reputable critics, which is how I found Sequoia Grove and Buehler for instance. Our government-run liquor store chain sells its higher quality wines through its "Vintages" sub brands. Every two weeks they send out a catalogue of new wines and spirits that will be released. Each comes with a tasting note and if available it is from a big publication like Wine Spectator and Decanter and they include its score. They do the same thing for the really nice, smaller stock items once a month. I tend to buy wines that score 93/100 and above and which are $40-100 CAD a bottle.

My favourite wine and, which is a real bargain for its quality, is Chateau Lagrange from St. Julien in Bordeaux. Classic Left Bank Bordeaux, about 70% Cab, with some Merlot and Petit Verdot thrown in. In good vintages lately, it has been scoring 95+/100, but will only be about $80-90 CAD on release. I discovered it in a really nice restaurant in Oslo when my wife and I were on our honeymoon. When our wedding year was released, I grabbed a case to be saved for big anniversaries. It should reach its peak in time for our 25th anniversary. :hehe:

Oof, just saw that wine stores in your part of the world sell it for only about $59 a bottle USD:
2016 Lagrange, St-Julien - SKU
Soo jealous... highly recommend trying the 2009 or the 2010 or both! They are solidly drinkable now. If you enjoy a bottle of Justin Cab, it's worth the try.
 
DKDetective said:
Have actually drank wines from all of the above bolded regions/producers. We quite like Hitching Post from Santa Barbara, solid Pinot. Although when it comes to New World Pinots, I do generally prefer Oregon and New Zealand Pinots (cooler climates, more like Europe).

Yeah, when it comes to winemaking, you have to grow what suits your terroir. We have a couple of decent wine regions in Ontario, the Niagara Peninsula, and Prince Edward County. Due to our cooler climate they are best suited to the grape varietals and wine styles you see in northern France and the German Rhineland, Burgundian Chardonnay and Pinot Noir, Champagne-style sparking lines, and Germany Riesling, etc. Nevertheless, due to the crazy popularity of bold, fruity California reds like Cab, Merlot, Zinfandel, etc. here, guess what too many of our vineyards try to make to please the market... Green, leafy, underripe Cab is a sin against the universe as far as I am concerned. :funny:

Yeah, I don't normally buy based on name. Actually, I find Caymus very disagreeable. It is the poster child for the type of big, brash, syrupy Napa Cab that I can't stand. I got a bottle as a gift and re-gifted it to somehow who I knew would enjoy it.

I do like to try some of the big name wines like Stag's Leap and Montelena, due their historic provenance, like winning the Judgment of Paris 1976, but typically when I buy wines, I look for things in my price point with strong scores from reputable critics, which is how I found Sequoia Grove and Buehler for instance. Our government-run liquor store chain sells its higher quality wines through its "Vintages" sub brands. Every two weeks they send out a catalogue of new wines and spirits that will be released. Each comes with a tasting note and if available it is from a big publication like Wine Spectator and Decanter and they include its score. They do the same thing for the really nice, smaller stock items once a month. I tend to buy wines that score 93/100 and above and which are $40-100 CAD a bottle.

My favourite wine and, which is a real bargain for its quality, is Chateau Lagrange from St. Julien in Bordeaux. Classic Left Bank Bordeaux, about 70% Cab, with some Merlot and Petit Verdot thrown in. In good vintages lately, it has been scoring 95+/100, but will only be about $80-90 CAD on release. I discovered it in a really nice restaurant in Oslo when my wife and I were on our honeymoon. When our wedding year was released, I grabbed a case to be saved for big anniversaries. It should reach its peak in time for our 25th anniversary. :hehe:

Oof, just saw that wine stores in your part of the world sell it for only about $59 a bottle USD:
2016 Lagrange, St-Julien - SKU
Soo jealous... highly recommend trying the 2009 or the 2010 or both! They are solidly drinkable now. If you enjoy a bottle of Justin Cab, it's worth the try.
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My wife thanks you. I'll check it out. I wish they'd put a freeway in that runs to Hollywood. There's freeways everywhere except to Hollywood...hrumpfff....
 
I don't remember if I posted this, but I did make that flank steak, mushroom, spinach, cheese rollup and cut recipe @KRYPTON INC. posted. It came out quite good. I got a piece of London Broil the other day and am going to make beef jerky. I really like that recipe because you can do basically anything you want. You just cut thin slices, marinate with whatever sounds good ( I use soy, garlic, onion, pepper, jalapenos, crushed pepper, etc. Then you stick a toothpick through the top of the slice, hang it between the grate in the over and cook at a low temp (200) for 4 or 5 hours or until dry to your liking.
 
The jerky is in the oven. I cut it a little thicker than usual so it’ll probably take a little more time to cook. I’ll send a picture of how I hang it later.
 
The jerky is coming out well from a taste perspective. The tricky part about jerky is that it ends up being drier than you would think. You have to remove it when it seems a little more moist than you want it.
 
InCali said:
Whew. Might have slightly overdone it with the crushed peppers here and there.
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giphy.gif
 
InCali said:
The jerky is in the oven. I cut it a little thicker than usual so it’ll probably take a little more time to cook. I’ll send a picture of how I hang it later.
Click to expand...

Here's the pic of the jerky in the oven. This method of hanging it with toothpicks from the oven rack works the best that I've tried without having a dehydrator. I cook at 180 degrees (about 82 C for those of you who think funny) for about 4-6 hours. The fun thing about making jerky is that you cut it at slightly different thicknesses so it's done at different times. Of course, it's VERY important to sample while you're cooking it.....just to make sure it's not overdone.....of course. :o This leads to a slightly reduced number of pieces when you're done.....sooooo good....

I generally use London Broil. It's a relatively inexpensive cut and doesn't have a lot of gristle or fat. You can use sirloins (which are a little more marbled) and I've even used tri-tip which is quite flavorful, but needs a lot of trimming. An advantage of using the London Broil, because I don't have a dehydrator and it's a cool name, is the longer strips you get and it's easier to hang. If you use a dehydrator, the shape doesn't matter as much because the ones I've seriously considered have racks.

Cost is another issue. A half pound (about .22kg.....god you people complicate my life, but I like doing the conversions :hehe:) generally costs about $12-15. I can pick up London Broil on sale for about $4/lb (just under $9/kg) and you get roughly half, or maybe a little less, than the original weight of the meat.

So, basically, the cost is about 1/3 to 1/4 of what it is in the store and you get to have all the fun of making it and sampling as you go along. Add this to the fact that you get to make it just the way you like it instead of depending on some mass produced process. My jerky is WAY, WAY better than what you get in the store. It's not even close to being close.

Let me know if my calcs are off. I don't think they are, but I did them all in my head.



Ooohhh....I'll clue in @GunBlade who appreciates said ability.
 

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DKDetective said:
Have actually drank wines from all of the above bolded regions/producers. We quite like Hitching Post from Santa Barbara, solid Pinot. Although when it comes to New World Pinots, I do generally prefer Oregon and New Zealand Pinots (cooler climates, more like Europe).

Yeah, when it comes to winemaking, you have to grow what suits your terroir. We have a couple of decent wine regions in Ontario, the Niagara Peninsula, and Prince Edward County. Due to our cooler climate they are best suited to the grape varietals and wine styles you see in northern France and the German Rhineland, Burgundian Chardonnay and Pinot Noir, Champagne-style sparking lines, and Germany Riesling, etc. Nevertheless, due to the crazy popularity of bold, fruity California reds like Cab, Merlot, Zinfandel, etc. here, guess what too many of our vineyards try to make to please the market... Green, leafy, underripe Cab is a sin against the universe as far as I am concerned. :funny:

Yeah, I don't normally buy based on name. Actually, I find Caymus very disagreeable. It is the poster child for the type of big, brash, syrupy Napa Cab that I can't stand. I got a bottle as a gift and re-gifted it to somehow who I knew would enjoy it.

I do like to try some of the big name wines like Stag's Leap and Montelena, due their historic provenance, like winning the Judgment of Paris 1976, but typically when I buy wines, I look for things in my price point with strong scores from reputable critics, which is how I found Sequoia Grove and Buehler for instance. Our government-run liquor store chain sells its higher quality wines through its "Vintages" sub brands. Every two weeks they send out a catalogue of new wines and spirits that will be released. Each comes with a tasting note and if available it is from a big publication like Wine Spectator and Decanter and they include its score. They do the same thing for the really nice, smaller stock items once a month. I tend to buy wines that score 93/100 and above and which are $40-100 CAD a bottle.

My favourite wine and, which is a real bargain for its quality, is Chateau Lagrange from St. Julien in Bordeaux. Classic Left Bank Bordeaux, about 70% Cab, with some Merlot and Petit Verdot thrown in. In good vintages lately, it has been scoring 95+/100, but will only be about $80-90 CAD on release. I discovered it in a really nice restaurant in Oslo when my wife and I were on our honeymoon. When our wedding year was released, I grabbed a case to be saved for big anniversaries. It should reach its peak in time for our 25th anniversary. :hehe:

Oof, just saw that wine stores in your part of the world sell it for only about $59 a bottle USD:
2016 Lagrange, St-Julien - SKU
Soo jealous... highly recommend trying the 2009 or the 2010 or both! They are solidly drinkable now. If you enjoy a bottle of Justin Cab, it's worth the try.
Click to expand...

I've had a few wines from the Willamette Valley in Oregon that were pretty good. I've tried some Pinots (Gris, Noir, and Blanc).

I also used to go to K&L Wines up in the city (SF). It's on Harrison in kind of what, at least, was a rundown commercial area, but was our go to wine house. Really good place for selection and price.
 
MissMarvelous87 said:
You're welcome...

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This is "In the Kitchen with @MissMarvelous87 ". But I think one of her lids has flipped.

Hey, my beef jerky came out REALLY good. Maybe a little bit saltier than some would like because of the soy, but I wrapped it in a paper towel and put it in a plastic bag for a couple of day and it dried out just a shade, but the consistency of it is, well, consistent. It's really, really good. I wish I could give you guys (and gals) a piece of it. You should try making it. It's really fun.
 
InCali said:
This is "In the Kitchen with @MissMarvelous87 ". But I think one of her lids has flipped.

Hey, my beef jerky came out REALLY good. Maybe a little bit saltier than some would like because of the soy, but I wrapped it in a paper towel and put it in a plastic bag for a couple of day and it dried out just a shade, but the consistency of it is, well, consistent. It's really, really good. I wish I could give you guys (and gals) a piece of it. You should try making it. It's really fun.
Click to expand...

I don't like dry meat... :S I like it when you can hear the cow complaining.

carne-roja_0.jpg
 
You haven't tried my jerky.

Spoil sport......

EDIT: It's really not too tough. Chewy though....
 
InCali said:
You haven't tried my jerky
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I don't how to respond to this statement...

:mrk:

Edit: I've just remembered that I tried it once! The "Slim Jim's jerky"... Not a big fan, but again, I have no idea if it's a good brand or not.
 
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MissMarvelous87 said:
I don't how to respond to this statement...

:mrk:

Edit: I've just remembered that I tried it once! The "Slim Jim's jerky"... Not a big fan, but again, I have no idea if it's a good brand or not.
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Ewwwww.....sounds awful. You need to try "InCali's Firebrand, Taste Bud Removal, Homemade Beef Jerky"
 
MissMarvelous87 said:
Haha the taste bud removal part sounds scary.
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It's only temporary. It might be that they are just shocked into not functioning. If they actually get removed, they grow back. Not to worry.
 
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