Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

[MasterBoss]

I rewatched Temple of Doom this weekend and I realized just how culturally insensitive the entire plot and depiction of Indian culture it depicted. This, combined with the terrible Kingdom of the Crystal Skull makes me happy that Mangold is taking this over and Lucas isn’t involved.

That's because it's not a depiction of regular Indian culture. It's about an evil death worshiping cult which represent a small, corrupt group who have taken over the palace royalty.

What's problematic in the film is the blatant white savior narrative, which is a valid critique. It's something to be recognized and acknowledged, but it doesn't diminish my love for Temple of Doom, which is a great action/adventure film.

 

[Vaibow]

That's because it's not a depiction of regular Indian culture. It's about an evil death worshiping cult which represent a small, corrupt group who have taken over the palace royalty.

What's problematic in the film is the blatant white savior narrative, which is a valid critique. It's something to be recognized and acknowledged, but it doesn't diminish my love for Temple of Doom, which is a great action/adventure film.

White saviour narrative... only if that's all someone can focus on.

 

[MasterBoss]

White saviour narrative... only if that's all someone can focus on.

I'm just addressing the film's biggest criticisms.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I have a feeling this will film will be far different and far more emotional than people expect.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I have a feeling this will film will be far different and far more emotional than people expect.

With Mangold I think that's possible, but I'm wary of Kennedy just putting it in a box.

 

[Fincher]

What's problematic in the film is the blatant white savior narrative, which is a valid critique. It's something to be recognized and acknowledged, but it doesn't diminish my love for Temple of Doom, which is a great action/adventure film.

Hey now, it was also a Chinese saviour narrative.

 

[Drizzle]

Sallah should have at the very least been at Indy & Marion’s wedding at the end of KOTCS

That would have been great and I was honestly kind of expecting it and disappointed that it didn't happen. Turns out it was supposed to happen but John Rhys Davies declined it because he wanted a larger role. It's completely understandable. Why would Sallah travel halfway around the world in 1957 just to attend a relatively low key wedding? Had he been there for at least part of the adventure, it would have made more sense for him to be at the wedding.

With Mangold I think that's possible, but I'm wary of Kennedy just putting it in a box.

I'm not concerned about Kennedy here like I would be with Star Wars. She's been a part of the Indy franchise since Raiders so this is more in her wheelhouse but besides that, Spielberg is executive producing this and he'll have the final say.

 

[Fincher]

That would have been great and I was honestly kind of expecting it and disappointed that it didn't happen. Turns out it was supposed to happen but John Rhys Davies declined it because he wanted a larger role. It's completely understandable. Why would Sallah travel halfway around the world in 1957 just to attend a relatively low key wedding? Had he been there for at least part of the adventure, it would have made more sense for him to be at the wedding.

If he wanted a bigger role, they should have given him a bigger role. Those new characters were a waste of space.

 

[Vaibow]

With Mangold I think that's possible, but I'm wary of Kennedy just putting it in a box.

I think realistically, it has to be indy thinking about something he has done/experienced and trying to right it in some way - redemption. What would pull a 75+ year old out of his comfort zone, wether it be his choice or forcibly!

The movie can't be a drastic change from what we come to know of Indy, it still needs to pull in the crowds, those nostalgic fans etc.

Let's be honest, the 'majority' of viewers under 25 will not be interested in this and why would they? It's not as if Ford has been relevant recently and his turn on Stars Wars, I guess it's similar to Sir Alec G in the originals - did under 25's flock out to see 'a passage to India'. There will be those that are aware and well versed in movie lore and will check this out, but if this 'franchise' is to continue in any way, which that seems to be implied, then, a handing over of the torch.

So, two linear stories, where old indy is thinking back and almost retracing his steps with young indy and old indy completing or closing the circle. So that it allows new stories to be told, of younger indy with said actor.

It can still be emotional, have heart, adventure. But yeah I am just really struggling to see this as a movie he solely carries, bless him.

 

[Gothamsknight]

With Mangold I think that's possible, but I'm wary of Kennedy just putting it in a box.

I'm confident Kennedy will do very well with this, considering her history with the franchise. I also think she did a good job with ST for the most part, it's just that TROS showed that it was a mistake to cater to nostalgia for the final installment which pretty much left us with a very forgettable finale.

As for Mangold, I think he's gonna provide us with something very personal and satisfying. What is that? I have no idea, but it's a gut feeling. Im expecting a tear jerker of a send off.

 

[Drizzle]

If he wanted a bigger role, they should have given him a bigger role. Those new characters were a waste of space.

True. I assume there was no place in the script for him other than at the wedding. Sallah's only ever showed up when Indy was in the Middle East in the series so I could see why they didn't include him. But they should have taken into consideration that Sallah is a fan favorite character played by an actor who had then recently come off one of the biggest trilogies of all time with Lord of the Rings. Sallah could have moved his family to America and he could have been a professor of Egyptology at Indy's college or something. His presence definitely would have improved Crystal Skull, even if by a little bit.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I have a feeling this will film will be far different and far more emotional than people expect.

Same, with Mangold involved this will be a Logan type one last adventure movie for Indy. But it won't be rated R.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'm confident Kennedy will do very well with this, considering her history with the franchise. I also think she did a good job with ST for the most part, it's just that TROS showed that it was a mistake to cater to nostalgia for the final installment which pretty much left us with a very forgettable finale.

As for Mangold, I think he's gonna provide us with something very personal and satisfying. What is that? I have no idea, but it's a gut feeling. Im expecting a tear jerker of a send off.

She was better in her previous role as a producer rather than a creative head like she is now. And I disagree, pretty much the entirety of these new SW movies catered to nostalgia or was intrinsically tied to what came before than doing anything new. TROS was just a culmination of it all in the most terrible, blatant way where people were forced to notice and they couldn't get away with it this time. But TROS was a hit and not enough for someone to rethink their choices.

At this point I have no reason to believe she will change her ways, as she just continues to make the same mistakes and based on everything before. If this movie is what you say, it'll be because what she didn't do.

 

[Peyton Westlake]

What, if any, artifacts or McGuffins has been thrown out there for the new Indy installment?

 

[The Guard]

It works if we’re watching an Old Indiana Jones take which I’m 100% more up for than a new younger actor coming in playing dress-up.

And again, Mangold knows how to write old “superheroes”.

I thought "Old Indy" was delightful. The shots of him barely being able to swing on his whip? Fantastic stuff.

There's a really poignant story to be told here. Hopefully they've cracked it with Mangold.

 

[Doctor Jones]

What, if any, artifacts or McGuffins has been thrown out there for the new Indy installment?

There's King Arthur's sword, but that might not be exotic enough.

I'd also like to see Greek mythology done.

Basically treat the macguffin like any other type of Indy adventure but anchor it in something unique and what speaks to Indy now. I don't want Indy going after the Ark of the Covenant to "tie up loose ends." God help me.

 

[TheVileOne]

If white saviour narratives are bothersome, stop watching Batman films and don't go see The Batman when it comes out.

 

[MasterBoss]

If white saviour narratives are bothersome, stop watching Batman films and don't go see The Batman when it comes out.

That example doesn't work. Batman isn't saving POC's in his movies.

 

[MasterBoss]

Hey now, it was also a Chinese saviour narrative.

Short Round rules.

Best Indy sidekick.

 

[TheVileOne]

That example doesn't work. Batman isn't saving POC's in his movies.

Yes he most definitely is.

 

[MasterBoss]

Yes he most definitely is.

You're gonna have to give me some examples, because I can't think of any.

Don't get me wrong, I love Temple of Doom and think it gets unnecessary flack from some, but the white savior critique is valid. Like, the scene where Indy lands in the village and all the poor villagers caress him like some messiah.

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

 

[TheVileOne]

That example doesn't work. Batman isn't saving POC's in his movies.

 

[MasterBoss]

What POC is he saving in those scenes? I guess he didn't kill the prisoner, but that's because Batman doesn't wanna go against his kill code.

Liam Neeson is white.

 

[TheVileOne]

You're gonna have to give me some examples, because I can't think of any.

Don't get me wrong, I love Temple of Doom and think it gets unnecessary flack from some, but the white savior critique is valid. Like, the scene where Indy lands in the village and all the poor villagers caress him like some messiah.

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

You know, Batman. Rich white dude. Only guy who can save Gotham City. Masters martial arts in Asia. Gets trained by ninjas and Asians. Refuses to lead the League of Shadows because he refuses to execute an Asian murderer because he's not an executioner.

Also saves all of Gotham City in each of the films. Are his actions not going to help people of color of Gotham City? Sounds like the White Savior and Mighty Whitey to me. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it ain't a freaking goose.

 

[TheVileOne]

What POC is he saving in those scenes? I guess he didn't kill the prisoner, but that's because Batman doesn't wanna go against his kill code.

Liam Neeson is white.

Rich white dude goes to Asia, learns how to fight and becomes the most formidable fighter in all of Asia. Pretty sure he saved that prisoner's life by refusing to execute him. Also beats fake Ra's Al Ghul Ken Watanabe.