Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

[DarkKnight88]

I'm not so certain of that. So far this is an aging cast for an aging/declining franchise.

That was the same complaint back in 2008, and that film made close to 800 M in a summer of Iron Man and The Dark Knight.

 

[Schlosser85]

That was the same complaint back in 2008, and that film made close to 800 M in a summer of Iron Man and The Dark Knight.

Doesn't mean it's thought highly of though.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Doesn't mean it's thought highly of though.

Maybe, though critically it actually did well at the time, but I don't think it really hurt the franchise in any meaningful way.

It's the argument that the prequels "ruined" the Star Wars franchise, yet The Force Awakens makes 2 billion a decade later.

You market it right, and it looks compelling enough, even people "burned" by Crystal Skull will come in droves along with their kids.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

People always make arguments about things "ruining" a franchise, and yet many franchises have chugged on. It's nonsense.

Any film that general audiences really loathe don't manage to make as much money as KOTCS did. Especially when it was up against such stiffer, newer competition? That's impressive. Perhaps built on the back of the franchise's previous good will, but that won't carry you very far. Batman & Robin had a tremendous opening weekend. The successive weeks though, painted a more complete picture.

The idea that a poorer installment should end a franchise is just silly. If that was a logical take, then we would have never gotten Last Crusade after the backlash to Temple of Doom.

Regular folks weren't as bothered by some of the stuff in KOTCS as the internet was. That being said, however, I'm of two minds. A genuinely good installment will certainly help give the movie some performing legs at the BO. But the fact is that the kind of movie Indiana Jones is isn't as appealing to today's audiences, IMO. When the original three came out, it was a time when blockbusters were less ubiquitous, more special and to be honest, I think kids back in the '80s weren't so picky with the subject matter of their entertainment.

I honestly kind of get the vibe that kids and teens today would be bored by a period film, despite what happens in it. Superhero flicks rule the roost nowadays, and were the originals to be released now, in today's climate, I don't think it would have captured the imaginations of today's youth. In a world where things are often avoided by the young for seeming "old," what chance would be given to a blockbuster set in such an antiquated time period? Especially starring a man in his (soon-to-be) eighties? I don't think the franchise has much steam left in it to be honest. The same way that Westerns have lost significant power, I think eventually Indiana Jones' value will go out with those of us who were existing fans. Unlike a superhero, Indy isn't a character that can be reinvented and adapted to take place in the modern day. Had something like Iron Man been set in the 60s when the comic originally started, I think it would have been an impediment to its success.

I think Indy 5 will do well, but it will be powered by the existing fanbase and older film-goers (Millennials and Gen Xers). Beyond that though, unless Disney recasts the character with a name that will draw in new fans from newer demographics (like, uh... Jake Paul?), I think the franchise will have had its day.

...I didn't mean to go down such a ponderous road, but here we are. What do you guys think?

 

[MasterBoss]

When I think of Indiana Jones, I think of the 80's, as do most people. That's when the series was relevant, and the films were made in a product of a more innocent time.

They tried doing another half-assed film in 2008, and it didn't work.

Truth be told, I'm curious as to how Mangold will handle this film. I'm not sure how well Indy plays with modern audiences.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I think audiences love Indy and this will make a billion dollars like any blockbuster. The question is how they do it, which has me concerned. What's changed are how these movies are made, which is key. The time of three men with a vision are over. Now it's a conglomerate making these movies. Out of all the SW content, Lucasfilm has only made one thing people haven't been disappointed by, which is more of a fluke. This movie's odds are great!

Next cast member: Lin Manuel Miranda (who will also contribute to the score)!

 

[MasterBoss]

I think audiences love Indy and this will make a billion dollars like any blockbuster. The question is how they do it, which has me concerned. What's changed are how these movies are made, which is key. The time of three men with a vision are over. Now it's a conglomerate making these movies. Out of all the SW content, Lucasfilm has only made one thing people haven't been disappointed by, which is more of a fluke. This movie's odds are great!

Next cast member: Lin Manuel Miranda (who will also contribute to the score)!

Mangold is a fine filmmaker, and he's surrounded by talented writers with a good track record.

I'm more concerned/curious as to how they will "update" Indiana Jones for a modern audience.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

When I think of Indiana Jones, I think of the 80's, as do most people. That's when the series was relevant, and the films were made in a product of a more innocent time.

They tried doing another half-assed film in 2008, and it didn't work.

Truth be told, I'm curious as to how Mangold will handle this film. I'm not sure how well Indy plays the same way with modern audiences.

I honestly don't see a scenario where the next film doesn't serve as a proper finale. Kennedy even said as much during the last Disney investor conference. Knowing Mangold, it's going to deal with meatier material than we've seen before from the series, at least beyond short bursts. Mortality, primarily.

I think James knows full well that just making "another Indiana Jones" adventure is going to be folly. They'll be laughed out of theaters. In retrospect, Ford looked good enough during KOTCS, they were mostly able to get away with it, but he's aged so much since then--5 will certainly be thrilling and fun in the series' tradition, but Mangold will make sure it's also resonant, heartfelt and poignant to go along with it. It's the only thing they can do.

The film is facing an uphill battle of skepticism already, and because of that, I think it's going to end up surprising people. I always am the first to admit that in movies, they can make you believe in whatever they want. They can easily make Ford's age irrelevant in terms of the filmmaking via CGI, stunt work, etc... but story-wise? There's no way out of it at this point--it has to factor into the narrative.

Jones' age is the factor I'm most looking forward to exploring, personally. He's my favorite fictional character, and a great deal of his early life has been presented via the TV show and the series of novels--I quite like the idea that we'll get to see what he's up to later in life.

 

[DarkKnight88]

I honestly kind of get the vibe that kids and teens today would be bored by a period film, despite what happens in it. Superhero flicks rule the roost nowadays, and were the originals to be released now, in today's climate, I don't think it would have captured the imaginations of today's youth. In a world where things are often avoided by the young for seeming "old," what chance would be given to a blockbuster set in such an antiquated time period? Especially starring a man in his (soon-to-be) eighties? I don't think the franchise has much steam left in it to be honest. The same way that Westerns have lost significant power, I think eventually Indiana Jones' value will go out with those of us who were existing fans. Unlike a superhero, Indy isn't a character that can be reinvented and adapted to take place in the modern day. Had something like Iron Man been set in the 60s when the comic originally started, I think it would have been an impediment to its success.

But what's "old" to a 1980s audience (the 1930s), "old" to a 2020 audience? I mean, Captain Marvel is technically a period film. That didn't stop it from making a billion. IT is a period film. Both Wonder Woman films are period. Hell the first takes place in 1918 and has a huge kid/teen fanbase. The Pirates franchise made lots of money in its prime, and they're period films in the same mould as Indiana Jones.

I don't think a "period" film has anything to do with the success one way or the other. It's the adventure presented. Indiana Jones in the 1960s isn't going to stop it from being a blockbuster.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Mangold is a fine filmmaker, and he's surrounded by talented writers with a good track record.

I'm more worried about how they can "update" Indiana Jones for a modern audience.

I don't think they'll bother--with this go-round.

Don't forget that Kathy Kennedy and her husband have been producers on this series since the beginning, and Spielberg is producing as well. It's still the core group working on this one too--the only one left out is George. I don't think Disney is particularly bothered about using this installment to do anything except make a little extra money--not with it being planned as a finale and bringing back old man Ford. There's nothing about this project that can be used to exploit a whole new series of anything. Especially not if the rumors are true about Ford only agreeing to do The Force Awakens in exchange for Indy 5. This is Disney fulfilling agreements and just expecting to reap a profit like with any regular movie.

That said, once 5 has come and gone, Disney will start thinking about doing something with the IP. Hopefully not any kind of reboot. I think there's plenty of years in the character's life yet unexplored where you could cast a younger actor to come in and tell untold tales, giving us the new but without trampling the old. I'm certainly not against a re-cast, considering Sean Patrick Flanery technically spent more time playing the character in the old TV show than Ford ever has.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

But what's "old" to a 1980s audience (the 1930s), "old" to a 2020 audience? I mean, Captain Marvel is technically a period film. That didn't stop it from making a billion. IT is a period film. Both Wonder Woman films are period. Hell the first takes place in 1918 and has a huge kid/teen fanbase. The Pirates franchise made lots of money in its prime, and they're period films in the same mould as Indiana Jones.

I don't think a "period" film has anything to do with the success one way or the other. It's the adventure presented. Indiana Jones in the 1960s isn't going to stop it from being a blockbuster.

I don't think the 1980s or 1990s are old enough to turn off a younger audience, but you certainly have got me there when it comes to the Pirates flicks. Maybe there's some hope yet.

 

[Stringer]

That was the same complaint back in 2008, and that film made close to 800 M in a summer of Iron Man and The Dark Knight.

Even if that wasn't almost 15 years ago they still had a would be star and an established a-lister cast with Harrison with Spielberg directing. We have neither at the moment... And it's almost 15 years later.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Even if that wasn't almost 15 years ago they still had a would be star and an established a-lister cast with Harrison with Spielberg directing. We have neither at the moment... And it's almost 15 years later.

Ford is still a bonafide movie star, James Mangold is a tremendously acclaimed director. John Williams is returning, Mad Mikkelson is very popular and the brand is just as beloved as it ever was. If anything, from what I've seen, the response to the film with Mangold and Mikkelson coming on board is turning more receptive than it was when Spielberg was still slated to direct.

Doom and gloom for the mere viability of this project is just silly.

 

[Stringer]

Ford is still a bonafide movie star, James Mangold is a tremendously acclaimed director. John Williams is returning, Mad Mikkelson is very popular and the brand is just as beloved as it ever was. If anything, from what I've seen, the response to the film with Mangold and Mikkelson coming on board is turning more receptive than it was when Spielberg was still slated to direct.

Doom and gloom for the mere viability of this project is just silly.

Can't say I agree with much of that outside of the greatness of Williams, but we'll know soon. As of now, I'm just not seeing it.

 

[CaptainWagner]

We manifested it. Hope he's not the villain, because that's way too obvious. I say "Mysterious Fisherman Who Finds A Clue to the Location of Atlantis."

 

[Chip Chipperson]

this was always the next stop on the "Harrison Ford kills off all his iconic characters" train

although I'm rather glad that Villeneuve didn't kill off Deckard and gave him a nice conclusion instead. Very refreshing.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

this was always the next stop on the "Harrison Ford kills off all his iconic characters" train

although I'm rather glad that Villeneuve didn't kill off Deckard and gave him a nice conclusion instead. Very refreshing.

Ford actually enjoys playing Jones, and had no opinion about Deckard. No death coming for Indy. Besides, that would be too far out of step for the tone of the series.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

well I enjoy him as Dr. Jones so I ain't complaining

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Can't say I agree with much of that outside of the greatness of Williams, but we'll know soon. As of now, I'm just not seeing it.

Well, your post seemed to deal with the topic of public sentiment about the film--there isn't any element about the film that's a turn-off for any regular folks, aside maybe from Ford's age, but the public-at-large isn't prone to predicting doom and gloom for a project before they've seen it. That's generally only entertained in the fanboy wheelhouse. I think, by and large, the general public would be less enthused about the film if it wasn't Ford in the role.

Will the film be good? Well, we won't know 'til we see it, but I don't think anyone would deny that we've got good ingredients so far. After KOTCS, the lack of Spielberg in the director's chair and lack of Lucas and David Koepp on the script will only be seen by most to be a good thing.

 

[Sawyer]

Mads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

Ford actually enjoys playing Jones, and had no opinion about Deckard. No death coming for Indy. Besides, that would be too far out of step for the tone of the series.

This

And considering The Young Indians Jones Chronicles are still canon, Indy lives well into his 90s and even loses an eye. So we might even see Indy losing his eye in this movie

 

[Punisher_MAX]

I think an Indy style film could work these days you just need a good story, make it fun, and cast the right people.

For years I've said that The Mummy with Brendan Fraser is the best Indy movie since Last Crusade and many people would agree, just replace Rick O'Connell with Indiana Jones and it still works. The movie is now a quotable cult hit that is still insanely popular at Universal Studios and memes are still being made of it.

Someone is gonna have to take a look at what made that Mummy movie so special and try to recapture that magic.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Out of curiosity bud, what would you like to see from this film?

If this were better circumstances, I just want a great, satisfying final Indy film. I'll judge however it's done on it's own merits but will hope it's the best it can be in those regards. But at this point though, it's more what I don't want. This is where I am with Disney. I'm afraid it'll be a bland, forgettable film.

I think it might objectively be better than the last movie but not as good as the other three. And because it's better than the fourth and will have the tangential things that make it feel like an Indy film, that will be the grading curve it's on and people will accept it. Yet people will forget about it in a week.

 

[MasterBoss]

I do wonder how they'll handle Marion and if Karen Allen will be returning.

I think at best she'll probably have a cameo.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

I do wonder how they'll handle Marion and if Karen Allen will be returning.

I think at best she'll probably have a cameo.

That’s what I’m thinking as well

Would be nice to see Salah and Shortround

The actor that played Shorty has recently gotten back into acting so it’d be nice to see him make an appearance