Instead of black Supes what about a Milestone Cinematic Universe?

[MessiahDecoy123]

Anybody remember Milestone comics? I think instead of taking a white hero and making him black they should explore black heroes that are currently being ignored (aside from Static).

So what do you think? Would giving Milestone some time in sun instead of turning Superman black be the best move?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

 

[Primal Slayer]

Anybody remember Milestone comics? I think instead of taking a white hero and making him black they should explore black heroes that are currently being ignored (aside from Static).

So what do you think? Would giving Milestone some time in sun instead of turning Superman black be the best move?

There are two Black Supermen in DC comics though

 

[Marvel united]

Both. Don't see why it has to be one or the other

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

There are two Black Supermen in DC comics though

Are they Clark Kent?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Both. Don't see why it has to be one or the other

Because Icon is essentially the same story as Superman.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Both. Don't see why it has to be one or the other

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Icon is a Superman story that speaks to the black experience.

He experienced slavery, helped slaves escape using the Underground Railroad, fought during the Civil War against the confederacy and probably fought for civil rights and against the klan.

But he's an alien who crashed landed on Earth and was raised by human. His secret identity is a nerdy lawyer.

We don't need a black Superman when we have one already who better captures the legacy of real life black heroes throughout history.

Taking Superman makes it look like blacks don't have their own stories and heroes.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

What's better having one or two Spider-man movies where Peter Parker has dark skin or black kids loving Into the Spider-verse.

It's kind of silly to say my favorite character is black Peter Parker. It's a much more powerful statement to say "I love Miles Morales and Into the Spider-verse".

 

[Frodo]

As far as the question of the thread goes, you can do both, it's not one or the other.

Superman is a character that doesn't belong to White people exclusively. It never has .So the idea of Blacks having their own heroes like Static Shock or Black Lightning and Whites having their own heroes like Batman and Superman in itself is mistaken.

While all four of those heroes have been of different races , and represent real life ethnicities, those heroes are for everyone and appeal to everyone. That's the reality.

In Superman/ Kal El's case, he's an alien who's appeared White in the comics . He can, in theory, be played by an actor of any and from any ethic background , because again, he's an extraterrestrial. The idea of Krpytonian's being different races has already been established on TV for years now with Smallville, and on Krypton with Zod and his family.

Even If, we're talking about human fictional characters, we've already had a Black Perry White and a Black Jimmy Olsen.

So, the better question is why doesn't Warner Brothers do not just both, but a Black Superman one shot story which they're doiing, a Black Non Superman hero, and another Cavill Superman film at the same time.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm against arbitrary changes to the source material.

You want to do Iron Man's origin in the Middle East? Absolutely, it makes perfect sense. That's where the modern war conflicts are.

You want to make Tony Stark black for the sake of inclusion and to reflect the black experience, well there are better ways to do that. You can add to the mythos with new black heroes like War Machine and Riri Williams. These are new heroes who add to the mythos instead of shifting it. They have their own black identities, origins, experiences. To give those backgrounds to Tony Stark you would have to change Tony Stark.

Miles Morales is a good example of how you can make a black Spider-man without making Peter Parker black. By making Peter Parker black you lose Miles Morales two parent home which black kids need to see, you lose his cop father which black kids need to explore, you lose his Brooklyn connection, you lose his new super powers, you lose his relationship with Peter Parker, you lose the permanent co-existence of the two Spider-men (since Peter Parker will go back to being white), you lose all the things that make Miles special and replace that with another Peter Parker story but with black skin.

If you truly want a Spider-man or Superman story that speaks to black people you need to make alot more changes than just pigmentation and if you're going to make those major changes then you might as well create a new character. You don't lose anything. You add to the mythos.

Miles Morales will be around forever with a huge fanbase. Black Peter Parker cannot.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Making the Justice League Asian isn't inclusion. It's lazy.

Creating a brand new superhero team that happens to be Asian offers infinite storytelling opportunities and expands the mythos with characters who can exist forever unlike the Asian Justice League.

 

[Frodo]

I'm against arbitrary changes to the source material.

You want to do Iron Man's origin in the Middle East? Absolutely, it makes perfect sense. That's where the modern war conflicts are.

You want to make Tony Stark black for the sake of inclusion and to reflect the black experience, well there are better ways to do that. You can add to the mythos with new black heroes like War Machine and Riri Williams. These are new heroes who add to the mythos instead of shifting it. They have their own black identities, origins, experiences. To give those backgrounds to Tony Stark you would have to change Tony Stark.

Miles Morales is a good example of how you can make a black Spider-man without making Peter Parker black. By making Peter Parker black you lose Miles Morales two parent home which black kids need to see, you lose his cop father which black kids need to explore, you lose his Brooklyn connection, you lose his new super powers, you lose his relationship with Peter Parker, you lose the permanent co-existence of the two Spider-men (since Peter Parker will go back to being white), you lose all the things that make Miles special and replace that with another Peter Parker story but with black skin.

If you truly want a Spider-man or Superman story that speaks to black people you need to make alot more changes than just pigmentation and if you're going to make those major changes then you might as well create a new character. You don't lose anything. You add to the mythos.

Miles Morales will be around forever with a huge fanbase. Black Peter Parker cannot.

Why would it be arbitrary to tell a story about a Black Superman or more a Black Kal El? You may not like it, or think it's right, but that doesn't mean this film will be arbitrary.

You're also assuming you know the motivations behind the creator of the project and assuming it's for the "sake of inclusion" when it could be that whoever came up with the story had a great pitch for a film about either an original Black character who becomes Superman, the 2 other black Superman characters, or a great story examinging if Kal was Black.

As much as you can point to War Machine Riri Williams, I can point to Nick Fury, Ned Leeds, Iris West, and several other characters who are played by POC. Creating new Black characters doesn't preclude Both versions of the Flash from casting Black actresses to play Iris, Sam Jackson to play Ned, Mechad Brooks to play Jimmy, and so on and so forth.

As far as changing identity and background Tony Stark or Peter Parker would go ,by casting an actor of another race ,assumes a heck of alot. It assumes that they're aren't shared experiences across different races ,and it also assumes that people who make up a single race all have the same experiences, and the same vantage points.

There are Black nerds and teens who feel alienated , and struggle with day to day life just like Peter Parker does. It happens to Black teen males everyday , and you wouldn't lose that by casting a Black actor instead of a White actor.

A Black Peter who loses his Uncle to violence, which also happens to Black Youth's as well, is not out of the realm of possibility.

There are also lots of Black Kids, like myself who had two parents in the home, and lots of White Kids who only have one . Miles's home life is not exclusive to being Black.

At the same time, you can have a Brilliant, cocky, Black scientist who's rich, who creates a suit of Armor. Neither of these things are impossible.

The qualities you've mention about Peter , Miles, and Tony aren't exclusive to any one ethnic group.

Assuming a Black Peter couldn't have a fanbase also assumes alot since we haven't had one.

I don't doubt there would be fans who wouldn't like the idea of a Black actor playing Peter, but their preference for a White actor doesn't mean their belief would be shared by the majority of people who'd watch it.

But even your examples of Tony and Peter don't really hold up in this case ,since this new film is specifically an elseworlds story about a Black Superman experiences . It's not part of the DCEU, and it does what you argue should be done with Black original characters: deals with their experiences specific to him . It's its own story.

Which is why , again, it isn't an either or proposition.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Why would it be arbitrary to tell a story about a Black Superman or more a Black Kal El? You may not like it, or think it's right, but that doesn't mean this film will be arbitrary.

You're also assuming you know the motivations behind the creator of the project and assuming it's for the "sake of inclusion" when it could be that whoever came up with the story had a great pitch for a film about either an original Black character who becomes Superman, the 2 other black Superman characters, or a great story examinging if Kal was Black.

As much as you can point to War Machine Riri Williams, I can point to Nick Fury, Ned Leeds, Iris West, and several other characters who are played by POC. Creating new Black characters doesn't preclude Both versions of the Flash from casting Black actresses to play Iris, Sam Jackson to play Ned, Mechad Brooks to play Jimmy, and so on and so forth.

As far as changing identity and background Tony Stark or Peter Parker would go ,by casting an actor of another race ,assumes a heck of alot. It assumes that they're aren't shared experiences across different races ,and it also assumes that people who make up a single race all have the same experiences, and the same vantage points.

There are Black nerds and teens who feel alienated , and struggle with day to day life just like Peter Parker does. It happens to Black teen males everyday , and you wouldn't lose that by casting a Black actor instead of a White actor.

A Black Peter who loses his Uncle to violence, which also happens to Black Youth's as well, is not out of the realm of possibility.

There are also lots of Black Kids, like myself who had two parents in the home, and lots of White Kids who only have one . Miles's home life is not exclusive to being Black.

At the same time, you can have a Brilliant, cocky, Black scientist who's rich, who creates a suit of Armor. Neither of these things are impossible.

The qualities you've mention about Peter , Miles, and Tony aren't exclusive to any one ethnic group.

Assuming a Black Peter couldn't have a fanbase also assumes alot since we haven't had one.

I don't doubt there would be fans who wouldn't like the idea of a Black actor playing Peter, but their preference for a White actor doesn't mean their belief would be shared by the majority of people who'd watch it.

But even your examples of Tony and Peter don't really hold up in this case ,since this new film is specifically an elseworlds story about a Black Superman experiences . It's not part of the DCEU, and it does what you argue should be done with Black original characters: deals with their experiences specific to him . It's its own story.

Which is why , again, it isn't an either or proposition.

You say Tony Stark's and Clark Kent's experiences are universal and that's true but if you're not going to do anything that reflects on a unique black experience then what's the point of changing the race?

If white Peter Parker and black Peter Parker are the same then why change the race? If they're radically different why not create a brand new hero?

If it's an elseworld's story then that different story, literally. I don't find that pointless since it's essentially a different character with radically different experiences.

 

[Juan1193]

I can’t stand the idea of race swapping because it’s like putting a band aide on a bullet wound and most of the time it does nothing for diversity in general. The character still remains White everywhere else, except the one movie they were race swapped in! How does that help diversify DC?

Y’all can keep your Black Clark Kent, Black Hawkman, Black Cyclone, Black Black Canary, Latina Sueprgirl, POC Zatanna and POC Constaine! I’ll stick with Cyborg, Blue Beetle, Static, Jessica Cruz, Katana, Icon, Atom, Firestorm...etc aka REAL diversity! Those characters will always be diverse!

Don’t see why DC can’t do for Val Zod what Marvel has done for Miles? It’s right there and is successful!! But no, we’re getting a lame race swap

 

[Karelia]

Man, a few months ago I read some Icon & Static Milestone comics, and they are awesome. Icon would be so much better of a story to do, IMO. If you haven't read them, they're worth checking out.

I agree, Val Zod getting the Miles Morales treatment would make sense as well.

 

[Frodo]

You say Tony Stark's and Clark Kent's experiences are universal and that's true but if you're not going to do anything that reflects on a unique black experience then what's the point of changing the race?

If white Peter Parker and black Peter Parker are the same then why change the race? If they're radically different why not create a brand new hero?

If it's an elseworld's story then that different story, literally. I don't find that pointless since it's essentially a different character with radically different experiences.

That's what the film is . Look at the recent articles

As far as Tony Stark , Clark , and Peter goes, why not hire a Black actor to play them? That's the point. The Black experience ,like the White experience is different for everyone who Black and who's White.

My Black experience as a Black person growing up in the Burbs in the 80s and 90s, is different from my Dad's growing up in the Segregated south in the 1950s, and his Grandfathers. We aren't all alike.

So when you say "unique Black experience" you have to be specific. The problem with your analogy the personality traits and even backgrounds of Peter, Clark, Tony aren't exclusive to White People. So you can hire a Black actor to play those roles.

That issue is totally separate from creating a new character that is Black, and you still haven't shown why you can't do both. Even if you don't like the idea of Kal El being Black, there's still Val Zod and Calvin Ellis, or a completely new character which may be used in the film.

Hiring a Black actor to play a Black Superman and creating a brand new hero Black hero are totally unrelated unless you feel that a Black actor shouldn't ever play those parts and that only White actors should.

Now that is a position held by alot of fans . I don't agree with it, but that at least doesn't try to conflate two unrelated ideas.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

That's what the film is . Look at the recent articles

As far as Tony Stark , Clark , and Peter goes, why not hire a Black actor to play them? That's the point. The Black experience ,like the White experience is different for everyone who Black and who's White.

My Black experience as a Black person growing up in the Burbs in the 80s and 90s, is different from my Dad's growing up in the Segregated south in the 1950s, and his Grandfathers. We aren't all alike.

So when you say "unique Black experience" you have to be specific. The problem with your analogy the personality traits and even backgrounds of Peter, Clark, Tony aren't exclusive to White People. So you can hire a Black actor to play those roles.

That issue is totally separate from creating a new character that is Black, and you still haven't shown why you can't do both. Even if you don't like the idea of Kal El being Black, there's still Val Zod and Calvin Ellis, or a completely new character which may be used in the film.

Hiring a Black actor to play a Black Superman and creating a brand new hero Black hero are totally unrelated unless you feel that a Black actor shouldn't ever play those parts and that only White actors should.

Now that is a position held by alot of fans . I don't agree with it, but that at least doesn't try to conflate two unrelated ideas.

I mean you could get anyone to play Batman but then the question becomes why are you adapting these stories. If you're adapting them because they're beloved and popular then it's probably a good idea to be as accurate as possible. That means someone seven foot or 5 foot tall is wrong for Batman. An obese guy with brown hair and brown eyes is wrong for Steve Rogers. A red headed woman is wrong for Blade.

And if you're not going to explore "what would happen if Superman was black" in any meaningful way then the skin color change is not only arbitrary, it's a wasted opportunity.

The Falcon and Winter Soldier is flawed but it accomplishes two things:

1) It uses a different characters to explore what it means to be Captain America without changing Steve Rogers.

2) I takes advantage of the opportunity to explore how a black Captain America has a new set of challenges while allowing black cultural differences to be acknowledged rather than ignored.

Just allowing a black actor to play the traditional Steve Rogers would be pointless unless you did something special with it.

I really dislike when Hollywood just says "lets make Blade a red headed woman" and the fans are just left confused and frustrated. If you're going to change something popular have a damn good reason.

 

[BobJM]

Would really love to see Icon and Static; I don’t know much about the other Milestone characters to be honest.

MBJ would be great as Augustus Freeman.

Plenty of good young actors for Virgil / Static too like Caleb McClauglin or Ashton Sanders.

I too like the idea of a black Superman, and am warming to the idea of Val-Zod (in a Miles Morales fashion).

WB & DCEU makes me generally nervous though, I just hope the Milestone characters can be done justice.

 

[All-Father]

Anybody remember Milestone comics? I think instead of taking a white hero and making him black they should explore black heroes that are currently being ignored (aside from Static).

So what do you think? Would giving Milestone some time in sun instead of turning Superman black be the best move?

It would be, imo, much better. Icon is a very interesting character himslef, not to mention DC comics is revamping the Milestone universe soon.