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The Dark Knight Instead of killing Rachel, make her BECOME Harley Quinn.

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Castlewood

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In a time where everyone is saying "Kill Rachel, Kill Rachel", I come here with a different approach. DON'T kill her.
For those who say "Just don't bring her back at all", others say "That screws everything up and ruins continuity."
WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE??

Well, for one, let's please BOTH groups.

YES, Rachel can be a "victim" of the Joker. However, she doesn't have to DIE, does she? What if she is somehow "transformed" into Harley Quinn by the hands of the Joker, whether it be by some kind of injury, or toxin?

Why not?

Look at it this way....Harley Quinn was NOT a comic book character. She first appeared in an episode of Batman: The Animated Series and the character took off with fans in the comic world. She later was thrown into the comics.

So, what does this mean? It means....there is no OFFICIAL record of true "depiction" in the comics of Harley Quinn. Therefore, it is technically acceptable to tweak the character and turn Rachel Dawes into Harley Quinn, and there would not be an issue of "taking liberties" to make that work. It would be 100% okay. Nobody could complain, because she was NOT a comic character.

If you want an example of something NOT acceptable, based on changing something from the actual COMIC world, then look at Spider-Man. The movie did NOT give him web-shooters....they made the webs inside his arms, which is NOT acceptable to the comic depiction.

So....I say, Rachel Dawes (Katie Holmes) COULD, in fact, become Harley Quinn.

And, how perfect would this be for Batman's storyline? It would seriously scar him in the movie. His childhood friend, his potential lover, now transformed into a villian by the hands of his arch-enemy!! I think the "revenge plot" of Batman vs. Joker would be 10 times MORE meaningful if it went this way, instead of simply killing Rachel off.

The only question is....Could Katie Homes actually DO IT?!?

KatieHolme_J.-Mc_4382807_Ma.jpg


harleyquinn.jpg


She DOES have the face for it....wouldn't you agree?
 
Bold idea,little different........99.9% of people will say no but I think it's too out of the left field for people to accept (not saying it's whack) plus there's a lotta Holmes hate and people dont want her even in the movie anyways.

But you make a good argument
 
Well....it's a TWIST. It's a shocking, devastating SURPRISE....which is why it has to be out of left field. Most people probably never even thought about this, and nobody would EVER see it coming if it happened.

I think this is the kind of sick and twisted thing that Chris Nolan would be into.
 
Well hey I'm not against it but some people may think of it as a little corny. I wouldnt mind seeing it. Challenge then is to convince people can Holmes play Quinn?
 
Nolan seems to be keeping a close tie to the comics so I doubt he would go for the idea.
 
TempleFugit said:
Why not?

Look at it this way....Harley Quinn was NOT a comic book character. She first appeared in an episode of Batman: The Animated Series and the character took off with fans in the comic world. She later was thrown into the comics.

So, what does this mean? It means....there is no OFFICIAL record of true "depiction" in the comics of Harley Quinn. Therefore, it is technically acceptable to tweak the character and turn Rachel Dawes into Harley Quinn, and there would not be an issue of "taking liberties" to make that work. It would be 100% okay. Nobody could complain, because she was NOT a comic character.

Who the hell cares where she originated. The fact is, if you're translating a specific character it doens't matter where they came from (especially when they became part of the comics anyways) you should still be respectful to the source material. Dont say nobody could complain, because I sure as hell would. If we see Harley in these movies, she should be faithful to the character Paul Dini and Bruce Timm created, just like Joker should be faithful to the character Kane, Finger, and Robinson created and Ra's al Ghul should be faithful to the character Denny O'Neill created.
 
I'd be up for that.

Rachel, to me, means nothing in the storyline - so it would be nice to see Nolan have some fun with her (not sexually).

Plus, it greatens the chances the of her dying - something I'd love to see on the big screen. Nothing would please me more than seeing Rachel Dawes through herself out of a window...

Saying that, it's not going to happen. Fun idea, but that's all it'll ever be - A fun idea.
 
I think he means she was thrown in the comics from the cartoons rather than being created in the comics first.
 
What possible difference does it make where she came from - the fact of the matter is that she is now part of Batman Comic Cannon with her own back story.
 
Majik1387 said:
It's not fanboy excitement it just ridiculous when people resort to mixing characters together for movies.


It's fanboy excitment when you leap at the next man and lecture/link the true origins of a character and are all like ""That was your whole argument I provide the link to prove you wrong"

chiiill.... He may not be an expert but I see his point. W
 
Well, at least Super Ludacris understands where I'm coming from. Almost everyone else (not mentioning names) seems to be stupid.

......You people DO realize that Rachel Dawes wasn't a comic character....right? They can do whatever the hell they want with her. And if you say "Oh, but her name isn't Harleen Quinzelle, LOL LOL!!!", they can STILL do whatever the hell they want with her....that includes changing her name from "Rachel Dawes" to "Harleen Quinzelle" and they can STILL make her a psychiatrist.

Sheesh, people....grow a brain. I KNOW the character....and if Nolan wants to be faithful to the ORIGINAL COMIC CHARACTERS, then guess what, HARLEY QUINN WAS NOT AN ORIGINAL COMIC BOOK CHARACTER. Oh, Snap. She's fair game for ANYTHING.

Now, if I said, "Jim Gordon should become Harley Quinn", THEN IT WOULD BE A BAD IDEA.....get it now!?!?

You know....MOST of you can't even come up with a more original idea than "Kill Rachel off", so I apologize for bringing something NEW, and ORIGINAL, and NOT BORING to the table.
 
More fanboy excitment? chill it was only a suggestion on his part if people can accept Burton's world and Elseworld stuff it doesnt make a cardinal sin for him to suggest it. I know it wouldnt work but no need to shut it without discussion...
 
TempleFugit said:
Well, at least Super Ludacris understands where I'm coming from. Almost everyone else (not mentioning names) seems to be stupid.

......You people DO realize that Rachel Dawes wasn't a comic character....right? They can do whatever the hell they want with her. And if you say "Oh, but her name isn't Harleen Quinzelle, LOL LOL!!!", they can STILL do whatever the hell they want with her....that includes changing her name from "Rachel Dawes" to "Harleen Quinzelle" and they can STILL make her a psychiatrist.

Sheesh, people....grow a brain. I KNOW the character....and if Nolan wants to be faithful to the ORIGINAL COMIC CHARACTERS, then guess what, HARLEY QUINN WAS NOT AN ORIGINAL COMIC BOOK CHARACTER. Oh, Snap. She's fair game for ANYTHING.

Now, if I said, "Jim Gordon should become Harley Quinn", THEN IT WOULD BE A BAD IDEA.....get it now!?!?


Now THAT would be intresting - it should go something like this

RACHEL: Bruce, you know what - I went through three years of law school and spent most of my life dedicated to fighting injustice in Gotham - however I am tired with that. I am going to be a psycologist.

BRUCE: Rachel, are you sure?

RACHEL: Rachel? Silly, my name is Harleen Quinzelle now!

BRUCE: Wait...what?

HARLEEN: I think I am going to go help that Mistah Jay fella now, see ya Puddin!

BRUCE: [mutters] Damn scientology.
 
This is a horrible idea.
 
TempleFugit said:
Sheesh, people....grow a brain. I KNOW the character....and if Nolan wants to be faithful to the ORIGINAL COMIC CHARACTERS, then guess what, HARLEY QUINN WAS NOT AN ORIGINAL COMIC BOOK CHARACTER. Oh, Snap. She's fair game for ANYTHING.
When has Nolan ever said he's wanted to be fair to only "original" comic characters? It's always been about being faithful to "the comics". Harley Quinn is now apart of those comics.

And y'know, a lot of comic book characters haven't been original to comics. A good part of the Superman mythos come from radio dramas and soforth - Barbara Gordon Batgirl was created for the 60s TV show. Does that mean they should be able to turn Jimmy into Doomsday in the next Superman movie? Or make Barbara Gordon the daughter of travelling gypses? Of course not.
 
As much as I like this idea - How can Rachel Dawes actually be Harley Quinn?
 
CConn said:
When has Nolan ever said he's wanted to be fair to only "original" comic characters? It's always been about being faithful to "the comics". Harley Quinn is now apart of those comics.

And y'know, a lot of comic book characters haven't been original to comics. A good part of the Superman mythos come from radio dramas and soforth - Barbara Gordon Batgirl was created for the 60s TV show. Does that mean they should be able to turn Jimmy into Doomsday in the next Superman movie? Or make Barbara Gordon the daughter of travelling gypses? Of course not.

Or make Barbara the neice of Alfred?

Oh...wait...
 
Im among the many Rachel-Katie fans that says NOOOOO to this.
Its twisted and you're trying to be fresh but its unrealistic and caricature.
 
TempleFugit said:
In a time where everyone is saying "Kill Rachel, Kill Rachel", I come here with a different approach. DON'T kill her.
For those who say "Just don't bring her back at all", others say "That screws everything up and ruins continuity."
WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE??

Well, for one, let's please BOTH groups.

YES, Rachel can be a "victim" of the Joker. However, she doesn't have to DIE, does she? What if she is somehow "transformed" into Harley Quinn by the hands of the Joker, whether it be by some kind of injury, or toxin?

Why not?

Look at it this way....Harley Quinn was NOT a comic book character. She first appeared in an episode of Batman: The Animated Series and the character took off with fans in the comic world. She later was thrown into the comics.

So, what does this mean? It means....there is no OFFICIAL record of true "depiction" in the comics of Harley Quinn. Therefore, it is technically acceptable to tweak the character and turn Rachel Dawes into Harley Quinn, and there would not be an issue of "taking liberties" to make that work. It would be 100% okay. Nobody could complain, because she was NOT a comic character.

If you want an example of something NOT acceptable, based on changing something from the actual COMIC world, then look at Spider-Man. The movie did NOT give him web-shooters....they made the webs inside his arms, which is NOT acceptable to the comic depiction.

So....I say, Rachel Dawes (Katie Holmes) COULD, in fact, become Harley Quinn.

And, how perfect would this be for Batman's storyline? It would seriously scar him in the movie. His childhood friend, his potential lover, now transformed into a villian by the hands of his arch-enemy!! I think the "revenge plot" of Batman vs. Joker would be 10 times MORE meaningful if it went this way, instead of simply killing Rachel off.

The only question is....Could Katie Homes actually DO IT?!?

KatieHolme_J.-Mc_4382807_Ma.jpg


harleyquinn.jpg


She DOES have the face for it....wouldn't you agree?



I actually like this idea alot. I mean to be honest i would've seen her killed by the Joker but having her as Harley Quinn works just as great.
I mean you have Joker taking the very thing that Bruce very dear to his heart.
Not a bad idea , not bad indeed :up:
 
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