Supergirl Invasion - The Crossover!!

[Dr.]

Anyway, on the matter of "Those I think could do well against Supergirl", and my logic. . .

...

-Flash: Should be self evident. Barry is faster than Kara, by a fair margin, and has a pretty wide bag of tricks. Even if he can't easily hurt her directly, he can do a ton of useful stuff, especially in a team context. Like "yank team mates out of the way of attacks", or "vibrate a piece of rebar into her leg".

That may be true in the current comics (different story back in the Silver Age). But in the Berlanti shows, Flash and SG have comparable speeds. Indeed, Barry said so explicitly. Actually, I was half expecting during the crossovers - as a matter of geeky fan service - that it would be established that Flash is unquestionably faster. But this didn’t happen. Of course, Barry might eventually tap into some higher level of the “speed force.” But as of right now, TPTB have decided that he and Kara should be closely matched.

 

[Kelly]

There was no Supergirl crossover episode, so she never really got a moment to shine because every episode understandably wanted to give the hero moments to characters from their respective shows, it's a shame that Supergirl ended up mostly just being background with the exception of her chase sequence against Barry in the Flash ep. I wish one of the shows had given her a moment to really shine.

My FINAL thoughts on the Crossover...

This is where my problem came with the crossover episodes. I totally understand that within their own episodes they wanted the stars of that show to shine, totally get that....but because of scheduling Supergirl did not get that opportunity.

IMO, they needed to have done 1 of two things....

1. Had "Medusa" episode this coming Monday, December 5th as a proper season finale along with the other shows....and given Episode 8 as a proper crossover episode spotlighting Supergirl....

OR....

2. Never have stated from the beginning that it was a 4 night crossover, never advertised it as a 4 night crossover, advertised it as a 3 night crossover with special guest Supergirl. SG fans still might not been all that excited, but it wouldn't have felt like we were duped as much.

But, no...what it ends up looking like is a "ratings grab" that pulled fans from Supergirl into all of the other shows, but because people pretty much knew a couple of weeks out that the only part Supergirl would play from her series was the last 30 seconds to pull her into the crossover. False advertising...at its worst....and those that do not follow Supergirl were furious because they felt duped. Supergirl fans felt duped because we were given the impression that she was a strong contender in all 4 episodes....

In my opinion, and just my opinion....

I got a great Winter Finale...loved "Medusa"...
I got a really good Flash crossover episode....
I got an episode of Arrow that I had no clue what was going on...knew very few of the characters, and got a weird fight that IMO was not indicative of the Supergirl that I know..."tossing a helpless opponent to be slammed again by Flash?" that to me was writing from writers that have no clue how the writers of Supergirl the series have written their hero. They simply thought....ooops, we really didn't put much Flash or Supergirl in this episode, we better do it quick.
I got a pretty good LoT episode, but IMO was again ill conceived because so much more could have been done by the heroes themselves using the actual powers they have....White Canary and Firestorm could have very easily stayed on the ground doing hand to hand combat, while Supergirl using the strength that we know she has to not only do what we saw her do, but at the last minute not allow the space ship to land....and at that point if they wanted Firestorm to be the one to destroy it, that could have happened.

To me we were fed a false idea (all 4 sets of fans) were fed that false idea. IMO, the fans that should not feel as upset as others are Arrow and LoT, though not all of LoT's people were really involved, a solid number were and they got quite a bit of air time.

I think the main problems were....

1. Scheduling, scheduling, scheduling.... just flat out bad timing for this crossover. Winter Finale of 1 series, and the 100th episode of another was just bad timing.

2. Too much hardship on the cast...

Solution? Well, who knows what would have worked better....my input (though could be totally thrown out because of actor contracts, $$$$, etc.)

My solution would have been to make the crossover a 2 hour movie event....

On Monday, November 28th, or Monday, December 5th....which ever would have worked out better for the Supergirl shooting schedule. My hope would have been for a 2 hour movie event on Monday, November 28th....and equal footing for their Winter Finales the week of December 5th -- 8th.

But, I think they wanted a 4 night ratings Bonanza but because people figured out pretty quickly that it was really a "sort of 3 night crossover" only 3 of the 4 shows really benefited from a ratings hike. And as for me, that is ok.....I'm not a big "who got the bigger ratings" kind of viewer. I think all series will get another season next time around, and I'm good with that....

But, I don't like being duped, and I feel like we as fans....were duped in a big way.

To those that really enjoyed the crossover.....that is great, I'm glad you enjoyed it. For me, it was kind of a meh...very much like the crossover last year between SG/Flash was a meh for me.

To the actors, good grief, what an undertaking.....none, absolutely none of my negatives given above have anything to do with their work on this crossover...it was obvious they all worked their tails off, and as a fan I'm appreciative of that.

 

[Dr.]

My FINAL thoughts on the Crossover...

A fair summary of some of the issues.

Also: Part of the challenge of crossover/team-ups is giving each member a fair allocation of screen time (so that the different fans of different characters don’t feel that their guy was given short shrift). So in this case, we have four shows consisting of three main heroes - plus an ensemble show with seven heroes. That’s 10 (give or take ). However, two of the single hero shows (happily, we can exempt Supergirl) have a very large cast of supporting players. E.g.: Diggle, Felicity, Thea, Curtis, Wild Dog, Ragman and guest stars like Laurel, Mom, Dad,, etc. on Arrow; Iris, Caitlin, Cisco, HR, Joe, Wally, etc. on The Flash. So along with the LoT gang and (of course) Kara, that’s at least 25 characters (more if you include guest-starring villains, gov’t men-in-black and US Presidents) to squeeze into three 45-minute episodes.

IOW (and IMO) I think they overloaded on the supporting cast. Do that and - of course - the main stars will get less screen time.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Yep, I really honestly think they just bit off more than they could chew...way too early, way too ambitious....and they started hyping it way too soon, ie: the head of CW spoke too soon.

Yeah, I think they went all in too soon, I would have went for just the 3 show crossover and focused on Kara, Oliver and Barry, let the 3 leads bond and develop a relationship before adding in the supporting casts. This would still be my preference for next year as long as they get a chance for Winn to meet his fellow nerds and Digg to meet J'onn.

To those that really enjoyed the crossover.....that is great, I'm glad you enjoyed it. For me, it was kind of a meh...very much like the crossover last year between SG/Flash was a meh for me.

I agree with a lot of what you said Kelly, I had a great time with it as I'm a lifelong nerd and comic book reader, and I watch all 4 shows so while there were pacing and overcrowding issues there was more than enough geek out moments for me to get a lot out of it.

I think scheduling was the biggest issue, the crossovers will be done each year I am sure and I don't see CW wanting to ditch any of the shows any time soon, they are obviously a goldmine for them as while the ratings aren't amazing they must be making plenty to invest as much as the clearly did into this.

They should be planning next years crossover now, mapping out not only the story but the scheduling, perhaps even shoot it in the summer if the actors aren't busy with a film, and make sure all the shows have their mid season finale on the same week, seperate from the crossover.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Crime Syndicate for next years crossover!

 

[vantheman77]

I've said it before they should have waited until next year until Supergirl was fully established in the CW, but their president spoke too soon and wanted to rush into the mega-crossover. They could have capitalized on the Justice League movie.

Like Kelly, I don't understand why Supergirl was a midseason finale when she and Legends started a week after Flash and Arrow's.

If they wanted this to be a true 4 parter start with the Flash and end it with Supergirl, where she can get her moment.

 

[zenith16]

I've said it before they should have waited until next year until Supergirl was fully established in the CW, but their president spoke too soon and wanted to rush into the mega-crossover. They could have capitalized on the Justice League movie.

Like Kelly, I don't understand why Supergirl was a midseason finale when she and Legends started a week after Flash and Arrow's.

If they wanted this to be a true 4 parter start with the Flash and end it with Supergirl, where she can get her moment.

let hope they plan the next cross's overs better and in more advance next time around if not by the time of the musical then next year and they have all summer to do so.

I've seen many cross over on other networks and even NBC's that does their's currently next to cbs's. But the NBC ones does them(cross overs) the most and quit frequently. The cw net work can learn from them and those show don't have things like special effects.

they have alot of story to focus on betwen those show and they make them work. so it shouldn't be hard to learn from those shows NBC does major cross overs of and those are the the Chicago fire and the spin off's of the same name PD and hope ,which cross over law and order SVU often.



they just need to do it in advance and take more time planning and plotting things out better . And not have things look like a rush job or last minute thing.

 

[Sithborg]

No amount of planning is going to be able to overcome a principle cast member shooting essentially three extra episodes. Especially with effects heavy shots.

 

[vantheman77]

-Supergirl, Flash, and Cisco are the only ones who are in all 4 parts.

-Green Arrow, Atom, Felicity Smoak, White Canary, and Diggle appeared in 3 parts.

-Caitlin Snow, Speedy, Professor Stein, Jax, and Heatwave appeared in 2 parts.

-Everyone else has appeared in their respective series without crossing over to
the other shows such as Martian Manhunter, Mon-El, Jimmy Olsen, Winn Schott, Maggie Sawyyer, Alex Danvers, Iris West, Wally West, Joe West, HR Wells, Mr. Terrific, Wild Dog, Ragman, Citizen Steel, and Vixen. Lyla Michaels and Vigilante only appeared in the Flash part of the crossover as well.

 

[zenith16]

No amount of planning is going to be able to overcome a principle cast member shooting essentially three extra episodes. Especially with effects heavy shots.

I'm talking about them integrating story better. if other shows can do it and they have less to do with then the cw which sfx is anothe department from writers staff, then they (the cw life action heroes writing staff) can as well and if you say and believe it can't be done by them , then those doing it on the cw shouldn't bother with cross overs at all and drop it all together.

And let those other on otyher networks show them up. which is funny since the comic's industry sorta invented crossovers before tv started doing it .

 

[herolee10]

Looking back in the last decade, we've definitely come a LONG way since the CW Network first attempted to bring these guys in live action format...

 

[zenith16]

^^ Mostly costumes the actors were always good or di ther best with what they are given. It's the rest that needs to catch up. But it's all headed in good direction.

 

[Sithborg]

And for Supergirl, you had some overemphasis on the Guardian on the 2 episodes prior to Medusa. And in the other shows, you can sort of pin point which episodes the cast was doing the other shows.

I really don't think they can do the 4 show crossover much better. As it is, it was only three episodes, and still some very, very apparent cutting of characters due to scheduling.

 

[zenith16]

Meh if only there more people like Ryan fuller. I bet he can organize them better. he'd be playing editor to these guy but it wasn't that different for him when he was on heroes and you can tell when his work was there.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Yep, I really honestly think they just bit off more than they could chew...way too early, way too ambitious....and they started hyping it way too soon, ie: the head of CW spoke too soon.

As I stated before, this crossover wasn't handle properly. "Smallville" had several team up episode that actually worked

Justice in season 6 was the start of a full-fledge team-up that worked because the characters such as Impluse, Aquaman, Cyborg & Green Arrow had stand alone episode previously that had them interacting with Clark, familiarizing themselves so when the actually united it served a purpose and wasn't simply a ratings Boost due to the Supergirl tv series joining the Cw from CBS.

Smallville's next crack at a team-up with a group was with The Legion of Superheroes in season 8

The success of the episode was that it played as follow up to the midseason break episode "Bride" that seamlessly was integrated into the storyline of the season with the villains "Brainiac" & "Doomsday".

Absolute Justice was a two-parter that gave us The Justice Society of America which i thought was a solid-two part episode that jungled a large cast of characters.


I reference these episode because as I stated previously I felt "Supergirl" was the weakest of crossovers in "Invasion" because first off the missed opportunity.

I'd pitch this type of story arc the 4parter crossover

The Dominators came from Kara's world as we start off the episode. Their intention is they detect a strong Superhuman activity on Earth. Which they feel an enormous threat by and upon further investigation they also discover a dimensional ripple gateway that was left from Barry's travel…Bring them to Earth One. Kara flies in after them. Unbeknownst to her the dominators of Earth One still come to Earth like they did in "The Flash" episode as a result of "Flashpoint" and both section of dominators decide to engage in a World War Z war with Earth Invasion.

Team Arrow are dragged in because this threat goes beyond just saving Star City & Central City but the entire world.

Meanwhile the Legends have detected the tampering of time anomaly that they thought was Reverse flash goes back to 2016 to investigate only to discover the threat is because of Barry via "Flashpoint" and they've come to correct the mistake and in the process they cause a "DC Rebirth" merging of the worlds were Supergirl and Superman are part of this world. That would've been a better crossover that would actual make sense and keep all the story lines from all 4 shows in tact without compromising the series

 

[zenith16]

As I stated before, this crossover wasn't handle properly. "Smallville" had several team up episode that actually worked

Justice in season 6 was the start of a full-fledge team-up that worked because the characters such as Impluse, Aquaman, Cyborg & Green Arrow had stand alone episode previously that had them interacting with Clark, familiarizing themselves so when the actually united it served a purpose and wasn't simply a ratings Boost due to the Supergirl tv series joining the Cw from CBS.

the differences with this example is those characters didn't each have shows of their own spun off from small ville. the only the current crossover of show is comparable to is what NBC does with the Chicago shows and the last of their law & order shows added to the Chicago shows on that network. there's also CBS but they are doing heavy dose's of cross over currently. they did two year's ago,


but now it's just Guest star appearance's/spot if anything it seems.

the point is it was easir cause cal those characters in the small ville league didn't each have an ongoing series making them seperate and the had just one writing team. they had better control over in that series. the only people currently that have shown to be able to handle 4 show cross overs currently is NBc fallowed by CBS ( the latter of which that's taken a semi break) with NCIs's that are thrre spinoff and live in the same universe as Hawaii 5' 0 and the scorpion shows on that tv station/ station.

 

[herolee10]

Honestly, I think one of the biggest obstacles in incorporating the likes of Supergirl, MM, or even Superman into the Arrowverse world is trying to figure out on how to present a threat where ALL of them can handle, while making it credible enough for it to be a challenge for SG, SM, and MM.

It seemed very evident to me that the only reason why Oliver had that whole "I need some space" moment was because they knew that if they had SG with the gang, that there wouldn't be any real challenge presented if they were confronted by a earthly threat like Government Agents.

And creating threats that's suitable to face the likes of SG, MM, or SM isn't cheap at all.

 

[The Caped Knight]

This trailer is prefect example of the type of scenario that would unite them.

The Team would only Unite for Major threats that they couldn't handle alone similar to the Justice League. But they'd stay in their respective cities dealing with their problems.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Honestly, I think one of the biggest obstacles in incorporating the likes of Supergirl, MM, or even Superman into the Arrowverse world is trying to figure out on how to present a threat where ALL of them can handle, while making it credible enough for it to be a challenge for SG, SM, and MM.

It seemed very evident to me that the only reason why Oliver had that whole "I need some space" moment was because they knew that if they had SG with the gang, that there wouldn't be any real challenge presented if they were confronted by a earthly threat like Government Agents.

And creating threats that's suitable to face the likes of SG, MM, or SM isn't cheap at all.

This is what separate Ollie from Bruce Wayne, Batman would still exist doing his duty to protect Gotham City from threats even though Superman existed or aliens like Martian Manhunter.

 

[zenith16]

This is what separate Ollie from Bruce Wayne, Batman would still exist doing his duty to protect Gotham City from threats even though Superman existed or aliens like Martian Manhunter.

If you mean the cw's Ollie it's more then that. it's that bat man is smarter and alot of other things both skill wise and as a person that this version of Oliver doesn't have.

 

[The Caped Knight]

If you mean the cw's Ollie it's more then that. it's that bat man is smarter and alot of other things both skill wise and as a person that this version of Oliver doesn't have.

That's exactly what i mean. He has certain treats that are Batman..ish. But he's not Batman.

 

[Slade W]

This is what separate Ollie from Bruce Wayne, Batman would still exist doing his duty to protect Gotham City from threats even though Superman existed or aliens like Martian Manhunter.

I assume you mean Batman is willing to work with them, unlike Oliver, because there is nothing to suggest Oliver would stop just because they exist. The only reason that scene was there was because they did not plan to have SG in the crossover from the start, and shoehorned her in for ratings, so they needed to contrive drama between her and Oliver to keep her away from the government agents that Oliver and Barry fought shortly after, as it would have been childs play for Kara. After the end of the episode, I am sure Oliver will be willing to work with aliens also. The contrived drama between the two is not necessary anymore.

 

[Dark Raven]

Honestly, I think one of the biggest obstacles in incorporating the likes of Supergirl, MM, or even Superman into the Arrowverse world is trying to figure out on how to present a threat where ALL of them can handle, while making it credible enough for it to be a challenge for SG, SM, and MM.

It seemed very evident to me that the only reason why Oliver had that whole "I need some space" moment was because they knew that if they had SG with the gang, that there wouldn't be any real challenge presented if they were confronted by a earthly threat like Government Agents.

And creating threats that's suitable to face the likes of SG, MM, or SM isn't cheap at all.

Supergirl in her own world would have just saved her friends regardless of people's requests. She would have acted out of duty. So why not here?

 

[Loki882]

I was also disappointed that we didn't get to see more of SG's supporting cast interacting with the Flarrowverse characters. For instance, I think that Alex and Diggle would have gotten along great. Also an invasion about aliens, and no Martian Manhunter, really?

 

[Dark Raven]

Chyler and Sara would've gotten on great too, although I wonder if Chyler would've thought she was cheating on Maggie now if Sara snogged her or got her into bed.