Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

[DrCosmic]

I mean... aren't the initial reports that it does indeed have Snyder and Nolan's strengths and is quite well received?

Snyder's only real weakness is story (which is, admittedly a DOOZY for a storyteller), but with Nolan/Goyer covering that... I'm not really concerned for this film critically at this point... unless one of our sources is lying... then things could get bad.

 

[flickchick85]

I mean... aren't the initial reports that it does indeed have Snyder and Nolan's strengths and is quite well received?

I'm just going on the hypothetical that none of those reports exist/are correct, because there have been a few conflicting ones, and I'm not interested in putting more weight in some over others, etc.

And I find one of Snyder's biggest weaknesses to be pacing. Not just in the editing, but to me, some of his dialogue scenes are so completely lifeless, it's like the actors are acting in a vacuum or something. Hopefully, with the caliber of actors he's got on board MoS, they can keep that from happening, but his other casts haven't been bad actors either, so I'm not gonna assume Nolan/Goyer "fixed" that aspect (since pacing can be a bit of a weakness for them at times, too) 'til I see it for myself. But as I said, I've got a great feeling about it, and even if the pacing is the worst thing about the movie, I'll still be a very happy Supes fan.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I'm sure people have already said this but the fact that this thread even exists, given that MOS isn't actually out yet, is bizarre.

 

[flickchick85]

I'm sure people have already said this but the fact that this thread even exists, given that MOS isn't actually out yet, is bizarre.

Well it was created before EITHER was released, so...slightly less bizarre?

 

[DrCosmic]

I'm sure people have already said this but the fact that this thread even exists, given that MOS isn't actually out yet, is bizarre.

But for real, there's really nothing wrong with pre-game show commentary as long as its taken as such.

I'm just going on the hypothetical that none of those reports exist/are correct, because there have been a few conflicting ones, and I'm not interested in putting more weight in some over others, etc.

And I find one of Snyder's biggest weaknesses to be pacing. Not just in the editing, but to me, some of his dialogue scenes are so completely lifeless, it's like the actors are acting in a vacuum or something. Hopefully, with the caliber of actors he's got on board MoS, they can keep that from happening, but his other casts haven't been bad actors either, so I'm not gonna assume Nolan/Goyer "fixed" that aspect (since pacing can be a bit of a weakness for them at times, too) 'til I see it for myself. But as I said, I've got a great feeling about it, and even if the pacing is the worst thing about the movie, I'll still be a very happy Supes fan.

I actually hadn't heard anything negative about MOS, but I see what you're saying, he's such a visual guy he doesn't really put much of the movie into the dialogue, so yeah, it can be a lot of nothing. I think Nolan/Goyer have the opposite problem... they put too much heavy dialogue in until you're swimming in pontification. Even no name bank tellers get epic last words. Hopefully it'll balance out?

 

[ThePhantasm]

Well it was created before EITHER was released, so...slightly less bizarre?

Ew, even more bizarre.

So strange the mentality on these boards sometimes... like RealIronMan being lambasted for negatively reviewing TASM when no one else on the forum had seen the film yet, or our UK / Australia members who reviewed IM3 being jumped all over by U.S. folks who hadn't seen the film yet... classic fanboy wars nonsense...

 

[ThePhantasm]

touche

 

[flickchick85]

I actually hadn't heard anything negative about MOS, but I see what you're saying, he's such a visual guy he doesn't really put much of the movie into the dialogue, so yeah, it can be a lot of nothing. I think Nolan/Goyer have the opposite problem... they put too much heavy dialogue in until you're swimming in pontification. Even no name bank tellers get epic last words. Hopefully it'll balance out?

Yeah, I think both camps have pacing issues, but like you say, they're kind of on the opposite ends of the spectrum on that. I like your theory that they'll balance each other out. Seems possible.

The negative MoS stuff was just some of the earliest hearsay (you must have missed "Easily Replaceable"-gate, lol)...and likely total BS, but as I said, I don't want to be that person who only puts credence in the positive reports, so I just pretend none of the reports exist at all. At least until the public advanced screenings start happening, anyway.

 

[Project862006]

I'm just going on the hypothetical that none of those reports exist/are correct, because there have been a few conflicting ones, and I'm not interested in putting more weight in some over others, etc.

And I find one of Snyder's biggest weaknesses to be pacing. Not just in the editing, but to me, some of his dialogue scenes are so completely lifeless, it's like the actors are acting in a vacuum or something. Hopefully, with the caliber of actors he's got on board MoS, they can keep that from happening, but his other casts haven't been bad actors either, so I'm not gonna assume Nolan/Goyer "fixed" that aspect (since pacing can be a bit of a weakness for them at times, too) 'til I see it for myself. But as I said, I've got a great feeling about it, and even if the pacing is the worst thing about the movie, I'll still be a very happy Supes fan.

really i have always felt snyder has directed his actors well imo it is one of his most underrated traits

butler gave a very good performance as Leonidas and it was a role they got him in leading man roles

jeh was great as Rorschach

crudup as manhattan is imo one of the most underrated comic book performances of all time he doesn't get enough credit for bringing to life one of the hardest characters to act

hell even oscar isaacs was great in his villain role in sp which was a terrible film

only bad performances were by actors who weren't really good which has been mostly females like malin ackerman and majority of sucker punch cast besides abbie cornish

 

[Blake II]

I preferred Iron Man 2 over Iron Man 3.

So Man of Steel, directed by Snyder with the help of Nolan, definitely has a great chance at beating IM3 in my opinion.

 

[DrCosmic]

really i have always felt snyder has directed his actors well imo it is one of his most underrated traits

butler gave a very good performance as Leonidas and it was a role they got him in leading man roles

jeh was great as Rorschach

crudup as manhattan is imo one of the most underrated comic book performances of all time he doesn't get enough credit for bringing to life one of the hardest characters to act

hell even oscar isaacs was great in his villain role in sp which was a terrible film

only bad performances were by actors who weren't really good which has been mostly females like malin ackerman and majority of sucker punch cast besides abbie cornish

I don't think it's that the performances were bad... but I think they shine a lot better for monologues and speeches. When dialogue comes in, it gets weaker, and sometimes plain old forgettable. That's why the females (who he usually has in dialogue) don't shine.

So Amy Adams has her work cut out for her, like Cornish, she kinda has to take the lead in making the dialogue scenes pop. Fortunately, she also has some solo moments, so I suspect that her job won't be that much harder overall... and she's kind of a good actress, y'know?

 

[metaphysician]

I mean... aren't the initial reports that it does indeed have Snyder and Nolan's strengths and is quite well received?

Snyder's only real weakness is story (which is, admittedly a DOOZY for a storyteller), but with Nolan/Goyer covering that... I'm not really concerned for this film critically at this point... unless one of our sources is lying... then things could get bad.

My main reason for being skeptical is that, indeed, Snyder has a big weakness in story. . . and while Nolan and Goyer are better, I don't have sufficient faith that they are well suited for telling a *Superman* story. IOW, I'm not worried that the story will be badly told, I worry that the story will be well-told but conceptually flawed. And if the story heinously misportrays Superman? Then all the other potential virtues are kind of moot.

 

[Anno_Domini]

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

That poster is hilarious.

 

[ALP]

Iron Man 3 was so mediocre that it won't be difficult at all for MOS to be a better film.

 

[Marvin]

wB should put that up in theaters right now lol.

 

[Dark Raven]

Iron Man 3 was so mediocre that it won't be difficult at all for MOS to be a better film.

Completely agree. Before, I would've thought IM3 was easily going to be the better film, but having seen it, I don't think it would be that difficult for MOS to beat it in that department. I don't know about the box office. But as far as the film quality, all MOS needs to do is play it fairly straight and avoid any gimmicky twists and it will easily be better. Unless of course General Zod

Spoiler

turns out to be just an out-of-work actor who isn't even Kryptonian at all and there's someone else behind it all. I don't see something like that happening when so much depends on MOS being successful and critically received by both fans and the general audience.

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

Completely agree. Before, I would've thought IM3 was easily going to be the better film, but having seen it, I don't think it would be that difficult for MOS to beat it in that department. I don't know about the box office. But as far as the film quality, all MOS needs to do is play it fairly straight and avoid any gimmicky twists and it will easily be better. Unless of course General Zod

Spoiler

turns out to be just an out-of-work actor who isn't even Kryptonian at all and there's someone else behind it all. I don't see something like that happening when so much depends on MOS being successful and critically received by both fans and the general audience.

Spoiler

Zod is actually Brainiac

Sorry to ruin it for you

But the way I see it, at this point, Iron Man 3 will win the Box Office, Man of Steel will be the better film. Man of Steel will do great in the Box Office, but not MCU caliber. That's extremely rare and special. As for film quality, what Iron Man 3 wasn't rare and special at all. Man of Steel could be that, from a quality standpoint, thanks to Christopher Nolan.

 

[Project862006]

Spoiler

Zod is actually Brainiac

Sorry to ruin it for you

But the way I see it, at this point, Iron Man 3 will win the Box Office, Man of Steel will be the better film. Man of Steel will do great in the Box Office, but not MCU caliber. That's extremely rare and special. As for film quality, what Iron Man 3 wasn't rare and special at all. Man of Steel could be that, from a quality standpoint, thanks to Christopher Nolan and Zack Snyder

fixed

 

[tek]

Congrats to IM3. The general public love it for it entertaining irreverence. MOS looks to have a earnest tone to it and that will appeal also.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

This is similar to "The Avengers" vs "The Dark Knight Rises" last year...a battle that's still unresolved among the fan community.

Oh no, it got resolved. Avengers kicked the snot out of DKR.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Oh no, it got resolved. Avengers kicked the snot out of DKR.

Heh.

Avengers was made for kids, TDKR was the better film for adults. Avengers made so much because of the kids. Avengers won the box office, TDKR won the critics

edit: Avengers beat TDKR's score on Rotten tomatoes, but TDKR beats avengers on imdb

 

[NosfeRomas]

Actually, Avengers is an action movie, TDKR is a drama.

You would not compare Lethal Weapon to Se7en just because both of them have cops in them would you ?

This argument is in a way Marvel vs DC all over again. DC has proven many times that can deliver Drama, Action and Characters better than Marvel but Marvel most of times wins because they are targeting a broader audience and they are more colourful and sometimes colourful is better than dark and gritty. Denying Batman superiority both as a character and as a film franchise is foolish. Even Batman 89 is more rewatchable than any Marvel film except maybe Iron Man which was probably the only flawless movie as a whole. Marvel fans are willing to forget flaws in the MCU because if they, the fanboys, start pointing THEIR flaws then their utopia is going to crumble (and i think it already has with Iron Man 3). The only ones who defend TDKR to the death are NOLAN fanboys, NOLAN not DC. I loved the film personally but as a rational man i understand it has flaws, many flaws if you will but i find the positives to outweight the negatives.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Oh no, it got resolved. Avengers kicked the snot out of DKR.

Lol. Sure man, sure....

 

[DrCosmic]

Avengers did win critically and commercially though. I mean, TDKR had some high highs, but not enough for all its weaknesses and extensive length, and similarities to Begins. Avengers had some huge GAPING plot holes, but there was so much to love all the time, and it was new and never before done. It had too much momentum behind it more even that Nolan's trilogy capper, and unlike TDKR, it didn't hamstring its own momentum with a major storyline about not being Batman. Same thing happened with IM3. More character than spectacle, and like LOTR3 or ROTJ, you gotta do both if you want a great trilogy finish. Third act spectacle won't cut it when you've had two movies to build up over a period of nearly ten years.

Now, many people liked TDKR more than Avengers... but we're not talking about individuals, we're talking about the public overall, same reason we don't compare how much money I spent on TDKR vs how much money I spent on Avengers to determine their commercial success.

This battle will be different, I suspect. MOS is set to win critically for all the aformentioned reasons, and IM3 is clearly winning commercially.