BvS Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread. - Part 2

[MrsKent26]

Yeah, I agree with all of that. I do think that was a misstep, not having him actually become Superman until Zod showed up. I think they could have just had a few quick scenes of him saving people in costume after he leaves the fortress and the film wouldn't have lost anything. In fact, I think it would have gained a lot to have it.

Yeah, it would have added a lot of depth and clarity. It would have taken the concept of superman from reactive to proactive.

The way I see it, Superman views his knowledge of what's right and his powers as gift that he wants to give to humanity because they deserve it. He's well-traveled at that point and has already made many recuses that allowed him to see both the good and bad in people. He chooses to focus on the good and protect. With this sort of scenario, "Superman" is a product of two things: the Kent's teachings about helping and being kind and Clark's own feelings on the world/how it feels to help people derived from his observations.

 

[Lencho01]

I'm not opposed to Clark learning from the Kents, but I'm really not fond of them coming across as perfect paragons of goodness. Sometimes they way they talk (Smallville) doesn't sound like anything humans would say. It's just too grandiose and self-important. I'm all for them instilling values, but please no long-winded speeches about destiny. That's what I mean by "pompous." Actually, what I was hoping for with MOS, was a sort of Tree of Life origin for Clark that let the Kents be flawed people that worried about doing right by Clark, but still allowed them to be catalysts for his good ol' country boy mindset. MOS did try to do this and succeeded in some ways, but it was just too sparse. The characterization gave way to the sci-fi stuff and an over-abundance of Jor-el. I would have preferred that there was no Jor-el hologram to prattle on about Krypton.

As for the Jesus stuff...I have never understood what it adds to the movie. So he's like Jesus...so what? Perhaps it's just there to hammer in the idea of "This is important **** here!" But I'd argue that's not needed because most people know the idea of someone endeavoring to become Superman is important enough.

To me that was usually in relation to the Luthors. But, for the most part, they weren't shown to be perfect. Especially Pa Kent who was really a *****e to Lex to the point that some fans wonder if he were nice, maybe Lex wouldn't have turned out so bad. Anyway, the main takeaway from the Kents is to just simply do good and that's all they hope for. In the stories where they both pass away, it's Pa Kent's dieing wish. Often used as the moment he goes from Superboy to Superman.

I'd drop that whole country boy Li'l Abner stuff that some people like to use. It feels like some stereotypical thing about farmers. And in some stories, Clark wasn't on the farm for too long anyway as the family sold it and just dealt with the General Store.

I think at most, Jor-El and Lara should just have a final message to their son and some history of his people. Would've been cool to see a Birthright moment, though. And as a sidenote... I'd like to actually see a young Jor-El in live-action someday. They always like to go with older guys. t:

I think part of it goes back to Jor-El. If you drop the whole lead them the way/show them the light/whatever aspects of him, you lose the God (the Son) metaphor since Jor-El is no longer viewed as God (the Father). All Jor-El did was simply try to give his child a chance to live. Simple as that. No clue if he'd really make it or how he'd turn out.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, precisely. The proactive vs. reactive comment really hits the nail on the head.

But what can you do. It's still a great movie, just could have been better in some spots. But hopefully the fact that they are taking their time with BvS means that the sequel will be what dreams are made of.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

That tentacle fight was unnecessary.

We did get a nice iconic shot from it though.

 

[MrsKent26]

To me that was usually in relation to the Luthors. But, for the most part, they weren't shown to be perfect. Especially Pa Kent who was really a *****e to Lex to the point that some fans wonder if he were nice, maybe Lex wouldn't have turned out so bad. Anyway, the main takeaway from the Kents is to just simply do good and that's all they hope for. In the stories where they both pass away, it's Pa Kent's dieing wish. Often used as the moment he goes from Superboy to Superman.

I'd drop that whole country boy Li'l Abner stuff that some people like to use. It feels like some stereotypical thing about farmers. And in some stories, Clark wasn't on the farm for too long anyway as the family sold it and just dealt with the General Store.

I think at most, Jor-El and Lara should just have a final message to their son and some history of his people. Would've been cool to see a Birthright moment, though. And as a sidenote... I'd like to actually see a young Jor-El in live-action someday. They always like to go with older guys. t:

I think part of it goes back to Jor-El. If you drop the whole lead them the way/show them the light/whatever aspects of him, you lose the God (the Son) metaphor since Jor-El is no longer viewed as God (the Father). All Jor-El did was simply try to give his child a chance to live. Simple as that. No clue if he'd really make it or how he'd turn out.

I like that concept. It's really up to the dialogue for me. If they can make such things sound like something a modern family would say, I'm all for it. They just need to make it balanced and show that the Kents, while kind and good, have doubts and fears like anyone raising an alien child (or a child period, lol) would have. I actually like the idea that MOS presented of Pa Kent not knowing exactly what to say to Clark because he wants him to pursue his dreams/be good, but also be safe. If that had been better articulated, I think more people would have taken to it. It would have been nice if his death had included a moment like those panels you posted. Perhaps they could keep the tornado scenario, but have Clark disobey Pa and try to save him. It doesn't work out and Pa gets fatally injured. When he's on the ground, he and Clark have a moment like in the panels where Pa realizes that encouraging Clark to do the most good possible even if it means revealing himself is the right thing. This moment of understanding would be the last exchange they would ever have.

I don't mind the country boy thing to an extent. As long as they don't make him some stereotyped simpleton, I'm good with it.

I would have preferred that as well. Just a simple "good bye, we love you" message from Jor and Lara with a bit of history.

There are many elements from Birthright that I'd like to see in a movie and thought we'd get more if it in MOS. A younger Jor-el would be an interesting change.

 

[MrsKent26]

Yeah, precisely. The proactive vs. reactive comment really hits the nail on the head.

But what can you do. It's still a great movie, just could have been better in some spots. But hopefully the fact that they are taking their time with BvS means that the sequel will be what dreams are made of.

Yeah, I don't mean to **** on it because most people here know I like it overall. It was a good movie that could have been great.

We did get a nice iconic shot from it though.

That's true. I hope we see supes fly like that again. Looks neat.

 

[Jekecy]

I think at most, Jor-El and Lara should just have a final message to their son and some history of his people. Would've been cool to see a Birthright moment, though.

One of the most powerful moments in the Superman lore that I've read. If they had excised the hologram stuff, it would've made contact between him and his parent(s) more poignant.

Clark gets one moment to speak to his parents, and it's to assure them right before their death that he made it. Dramatic gold!

 

[Lencho01]

I like that concept. It's really up to the dialogue for me. If they can make such things sound like something a modern family would say, I'm all for it. They just need to make it balanced and show that the Kents, while kind and good, have doubts and fears like anyone raising an alien child (or a child period, lol) would have. I actually like the idea that MOS presented of Pa Kent not knowing exactly what to say to Clark because he wants him to pursue his dreams/be good, but also be safe. If that had been better articulated, I think more people would have taken to it. It would have been nice if his death had included a moment like those panels you posted. Perhaps they could keep the tornado scenario, but have Clark disobey Pa and try to save him. It doesn't work out and Pa gets fatally injured. When he's on the ground, he and Clark have a moment like in the panels where Pa realizes that encouraging Clark to do the most good possible even if it means revealing himself is the right thing. This moment of understanding would be the last exchange they would ever have.

I don't mind the country boy thing to an extent. As long as they don't make him some stereotyped simpleton, I'm good with it.

I would have preferred that as well. Just a simple "good bye, we love you" message from Jor and Lara with a bit of history.

There are many elements from Birthright that I'd like to see in a movie and thought we'd get more if it in MOS. A younger Jor-el would be an interesting change.

Yeah, there are ways to make it sound a little bit more modern. I think the doubt stuff would be best shown when Clark's a baby, which I thought they'd do in MOS since there's that one pic floating around from one of the kids books. I'm fine with Pa Kent not knowing what exactly to say, but it's highly doubtful he (or your average person) would really take issue with Clark saving a bunch of kids even if it meant showing what he can do. It's why people reacted to negatively to that scene. Who would really say such a thing? Krazy Kent, that's who! t:

I still wouldn't be much of a fan of that death scene. Simply because it goes back to making things more complicated than they need to be. The death of the Kents is good enough as a lesson of him not being able to save everyone and of course can be used on the psychological side of the character when it comes to his relationships with people in general. The two people who knew him as a whole are dead (due to old age or something else), so he keeps people at arms length whether he realizes it or not. There is of course the whole "can't be at two places at once" idea that is often used. I think that's what most fans assumed would happen once the tornado was confirmed. On a side note, I do laugh at how most people assumed the pic of the destroyed truck was due to a tornado rather than Clark greatly overreacting to some jerk.

I just think it's hard to do these days given how the world is. I don't think Clark would be that different if he were raised by the Kents in a suburban or even urban setting. So, the emphasis is really on the Kents rather than the setting.

Jor-El was meant to be young. It's part of the reason why his claims of Krypton's doom were looked down upon. I think at most, he would've been in his 30s much like Superman is often shown.

 

[Mysteryman]

We did get a nice iconic shot from it though.

That is what I like , POSITIVITY!

 

[Boy Scout]

The All Things thread is usually consists of: A. Posting the same picture of Batfleck over and over again, B. Ganging up on either Tobias or Zryson or C. Complaining about any criticism and repeating the phrase "2 more years of this" ad nauseum.

People whine about the existence of this thread, but its more stimulating than most of the conversation of this board.

Agreed.

Which to me just says how much they don't need to go over the origin again.

I didn't have a problem with them doing the origin again because I was expecting something similar to Birthright.

I also don't like all this destiny nonsense/Clark being told what to do stuff they throw in there too.

Me neither. It's always superfluous, not to mention annoying.

 

[MrsKent26]

Yeah, there are ways to make it sound a little bit more modern. I think the doubt stuff would be best shown when Clark's a baby, which I thought they'd do in MOS since there's that one pic floating around from one of the kids books. I'm fine with Pa Kent not knowing what exactly to say, but it's highly doubtful he (or your average person) would really take issue with Clark saving a bunch of kids even if it meant showing what he can do. It's why people reacted to negatively to that scene. Who would really say such a thing? Krazy Kent, that's who! t:

I still wouldn't be much of a fan of that death scene. Simply because it goes back to making things more complicated than they need to be. The death of the Kents is good enough as a lesson of him not being able to save everyone and of course can be used on the psychological side of the character when it comes to his relationships with people in general. The two people who knew him as a whole are dead (due to old age or something else), so he keeps people at arms length whether he realizes it or not. There is of course the whole "can't be at two places at once" idea that is often used. I think that's what most fans assumed would happen once the tornado was confirmed. On a side note, I do laugh at how most people assumed the pic of the destroyed truck was due to a tornado rather than Clark greatly overreacting to some jerk.

I just think it's hard to do these days given how the world is. I don't think Clark would be that different if he were raised by the Kents in a suburban or even urban setting. So, the emphasis is really on the Kents rather than the setting.

Jor-El was meant to be young. It's part of the reason why his claims of Krypton's doom were looked down upon. I think at most, he would've been in his 30s much like Superman is often shown.

I prefer Pa kent being conflicted about Clark outing himself. To me, that is natural. But, I'd prefer that to be overcome in the end when both Clark and Pa deem Clark's idea to be a public hero the "right thing." Having the Kents do nothing but encourage Clark seems a tad saccharine to me, but the dialogue in the "maybe" seen could definitely be improved to allow Pa to express some pride in Clark's actions along with his concerns. I'm a fan of him not being able to save the Kents and having that lesson, but I like the idea of the Kents having an arc as well. They overcome any fear or reservations they have and support Clark releasing himself to the world.

I guess I'd like the whole situation to be a mix of what MOS tried to do and elements from the comics, like what you posted.

I prefer the country setting, but I'm not opposed to changes. I just find that the country imagery works towards a placid and wholesome feel. That can be taken too far though (I never liked how the SR Kent farm looked like fairy tale place).

 

[Mysteryman]

I prefer Pa kent being conflicted about Clark outing himself. To me, that is natural. But, I'd prefer that to be overcome in the end when both Clark and Pa deem Clark's idea to be a public hero the "right thing." Having the Kents do nothing but encourage Clark seems a tad saccharine to me, but the dialogue in the "maybe" seen could definitely be improved to allow Pa to express some pride in Clark's actions along with his concerns. I'm a fan of him not being able to save the Kents and having that lesson, but I like the idea of the Kents having an arc as well. They overcome any fear or reservations they have and support Clark releasing himself to the world.

I guess I'd like the whole situation to be a mix of what MOS tried to do and elements from the comics, like what you posted.

I prefer the country setting, but I'm not opposed to changes. I just find that the country imagery works towards a placid and wholesome feel. That can be taken too far though (I never liked how the SR Kent farm looked like fairy tale place).

Didn't you say you would like to have seen the Kents portrayed as Flawed ?
Clearly Pa Kent was portrayed that way.

 

[MrsKent26]

Didn't you say you would like to have seen the Kents portrayed as Flawed ?
Clearly Pa Kent was portrayed that way.

Yep, I liked how he was flawed and human, but it wasn't the exact portrayal I wanted. As I said in that post, I'd like to have that flawed humanness combined with a more traditional Pa that comes around to the idea of Clark outing himself in order to become superman after some internal conflicts that he's battled for much of Clark's upbringing.

The concept of the Kents having legit fears about what will happen to Clark and to the world as a result of him being revealed is something MOS got right from my perspective.

 

[Lencho01]

I didn't have a problem with them doing the origin again because I was expecting something similar to Birthright.

Me neither. It's always superfluous, not to mention annoying.

Well, I guess from my point of view, after being so familiar with the character and having plenty of origin stories done with other superhero films, I don't see much need for it. So, the short and sweet approach would be nice.

I prefer Pa kent being conflicted about Clark outing himself. To me, that is natural. But, I'd prefer that to be overcome in the end when both Clark and Pa deem Clark's idea to be a public hero the "right thing." Having the Kents do nothing but encourage Clark seems a tad saccharine to me, but the dialogue in the "maybe" seen could definitely be improved to allow Pa to express some pride in Clark's actions along with his concerns. I'm a fan of him not being able to save the Kents and having that lesson, but I like the idea of the Kents having an arc as well. They overcome any fear or reservations they have and support Clark releasing himself to the world.

I guess I'd like the whole situation to be a mix of what MOS tried to do and elements from the comics, like what you posted.

I prefer the country setting, but I'm not opposed to changes. I just find that the country imagery works towards a placid and wholesome feel. That can be taken too far though (I never liked how the SR Kent farm looked like fairy tale place).

Well, it's not like they're grooming him to be some superhero. That's still his choice. Much like Smallville, the issue they had was that he'd be in a situation where it wasn't his choice especially when he was just a kid. No one has that right but him. So, it's not "Never share your powers with the world!" but "Wait, until you're a little older." But, that's mostly because they like to get rid of the Superboy aspects of his life. Even without his powers, they would encourage him to do good by instilling that sense of community. It's why when faced with death, he leaves such a message...

A lot of issues would be solved if people weren't so selfish and tried to help their communities with whatever talents they may possess.

With all that said, it goes back to what was a pretty simple and straight-forward idea when it comes to his origins. Not much need for the Kents to have some arc.

To tell you the truth, I probably wouldn't even show their deaths. And if I did, not in the first film.

The country setting's nice and all, but as MOS shown it doesn't really mean it'll be all wholesome. It's the family aspect that makes it wholesome. Didn't see anything special or fairy tale-like about SR's depiction of the farm.

 

[MrsKent26]

Well, it's not like they're grooming him to be some superhero. That's still his choice. Much like Smallville, the issue they had was that he'd be in a situation where it wasn't his choice especially when he was just a kid. No one has that right but him. So, it's not "Never share your powers with the world!" but "Wait, until you're a little older." But, that's mostly because they like to get rid of the Superboy aspects of his life. Even without his powers, they would encourage him to do good by instilling that sense of community. It's why when faced with death, he leaves such a message...

A lot of issues would be solved if people weren't so selfish and tried to help their communities with whatever talents they may possess.

With all that said, it goes back to what was a pretty simple and straight-forward idea when it comes to his origins. Not much need for the Kents to have some arc.

To tell you the truth, I probably wouldn't even show their deaths. And if I did, not in the first film.

The country setting's nice and all, but as MOS shown it doesn't really mean it'll be all wholesome. It's the family aspect that makes it wholesome. Didn't see anything special or fairy tale-like about SR's depiction of the farm.

I agree with that concept, but don't see the harm in adding some fears and doubts for the Kents. I don't like things to become over-complicated, but I find that making them human adds more than it interferes. Of course, that's highly subjective and I respect your ideas on the subject. I could probably like an origin like that.

I especially like this:

A lot of issues would be solved if people weren't so selfish and tried to help their communities with whatever talents they may possess.

I would love to see that in a supes movie at some point. Perhaps someone could ask superman why he does what he does and this could be his answer (except perhaps he'd leave out the "selfish" part to sound diplomatic). That's really all he does; he just helps as much as he's able. Simple and beautiful.

The wholesomeness I was talking about was just in reference to the imagery (in particular that Malick-like imagery in MOS). It doesn't mean what takes place there is wholesome; it just looks that way and I like the look. It's got a dream-like quality that is pleasant, but not too sweetly over the top. It's just an aesthetic preference for me.

 

[Charlatan]

I disagree about his deciding to become a hero "reactive" to Zod's threat.
I think it was always his nature. But that natural tendency had been shackled by Pa Kent's warnings about how people would react and how the govts of the world would treat him. It was always his nature but he was afraid, afraid of being outcast, afraid of what they might cause him to do to protect himself and his family. His nature was right there on full display when he had the towel around his neck with his hands on his hips striking that hero pose as a young boy. It was on full display when he rescued the school bus and the oil rig.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Becoming a public superhero was a result of Zod, pushing his limits to flight came out of this as well. He had to become more in order to protect earth. It was his time to step out into the light so to speak.

 

[Lencho01]

I agree with that concept, but don't see the harm in adding some fears and doubts for the Kents. I don't like things to become over-complicated, but I find that making them human adds more than it interferes. Of course, that's highly subjective and I respect your ideas on the subject. I could probably like an origin like that.

I especially like this:

A lot of issues would be solved if people weren't so selfish and tried to help their communities with whatever talents they may possess.

I would love to see that in a supes movie at some point. Perhaps someone could ask superman why he does what he does and this could be his answer (except perhaps he'd leave out the "selfish" part to sound diplomatic). That's really all he does; he just helps as much as he's able. Simple and beautiful.

The wholesomeness I was talking about was just in reference to the imagery (in particular that Malick-like imagery in MOS). It doesn't mean what takes place there is wholesome; it just looks that way and I like the look. It's got a dream-like quality that is pleasant, but not too sweetly over the top. It's just an aesthetic preference for me.

Yeah, I don't see why they would really fear or doubt anything if Clark was an adult making his own decisions especially, if they instilled the sense of community that Superman is known for. If he's a kid and they're not going the Superboy route, I can understand them having that fear and not to the paranoid and contradictory point of MOS Pa Kent.

True, he'd probably wouldn't bring up anything about people being selfish. But, it boils down to the "Do good to others" idea. If people had a sense of community like he did, things would be pretty good. All-Star was good example of how important community is to Superman.

Oh, ok. I only got that wholesome vibe from the trailers and flashback at the end of MOS.

 

[Herolee10]

Frankly, I have more confidence in Snyder making this into something magical than I do in JJ Abrams making a Star Wars film that I would enjoy.

 

[MrsKent26]

Yeah, I don't see why they would really fear or doubt anything if Clark was an adult making his own decisions especially, if they instilled the sense of community that Superman is known for. If he's a kid and they're not going the Superboy route, I can understand them having that fear and not to the paranoid and contradictory point of MOS Pa Kent.

True, he'd probably wouldn't bring up anything about people being selfish. But, it boils down to the "Do good to others" idea. If people had a sense of community like he did, things would be pretty good. All-Star was good example of how important community is to Superman.

Oh, ok. I only got that wholesome vibe from the trailers and flashback at the end of MOS.

I can understand that perspective. I still think they'd have a bit of fear. Even if they've raised superman with a sense of community, no one can control how the world reacts to him. He may be an adult, but he's still their son. I see them supporting him despite moments of reservation, but expressing joy and pride when it finally happens.

The sense of community making life better for all reminds me a bit of this:

"If you knew how you are loved, not one of you would raise a hand in rage again."

I really like idea that superman's sense of community and general love for mankind is a gift he would be able to share even if he had no superpowers.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I really don't get why anyone would complain MOS was too grounded in realism.

I actually thought it was the opposite of that. It was much LESS grounded in realism than I expected. It came across as epic fantasy. And in places, quite comic booky.

But that was part of my dissapointment, because the trailers and interviews had so built it up to be more in the TDK style of realism storytelling... and they didn't really deliver that.

That's a personal taste thing tho. I was really looking forward to a Superman the GA would finally take seriously like they've been able to with Batman.

Same here.

One thing that I wished they showed in the movie, was people rioting in the streets. I mean if an alien race made contact with earth and said one of their own had 24 hours to surrender or Earth was destroyed, you would think there would be mass chaos from the majority of people. Instead, everyone was pretty calm until they attacked.

It would have been interesting to see how Superman dealt with all that, as well as how people would react to his presence.

 

[WBwins]

1. It introduced us to Jor el who did play a big part in the movie, where Superman came from, the main villain, the codex and Kryptonian technology. Plus, it was just awesome to see Krypton finally.

2. If they left the fortress scene out and just had Kal say, “Okay cool, your my bad…where’s my suit?” it wouldn’t have made sense and if that happened everyone would complain that Kal didn’t even care about his past.

3. If Kal really didn’t want to save Earth he would have said yes to Zod’s plan and destroyed Earth with him. Plus, the Codex was a good plot device because it gave Zod a reason to go to Kal.

4. It had a point. It showed why Zod was so crazy and narrow minded.

5. Yeah I still don't really know why they stopped the exploration. Maybe someone else does?

6. Well, in the beginning of the film Clark is trying to found out who he is. His father told him to.

7. Well I think that in the future there will be more and more villains for him to fight.

8. Jonathon was all for Clark becoming a hero, when the time was right. “you have to decide what kind of man you want to grow up to be Clark because whoever that man is, he’s gonna change the world.”

9. Clark doesn’t go into exile, he’s on a journey of discovering who he is, then, when he finds out who he is, his father (Jor) tells him to be a beacon of hope for Earth and to show them the good path.

10. Jor el Vs Zod – Jor El won’t give up on his son and Zod won’t give up on finding the codex.
First Flight scene – Clark finding out his true strength and what he can be.
Smallville fight – Shows that without their helmets, the krptyonians are screwed. Superman shows that he is there to protect the people, Colonel Hardy shows that he’s a badass and won’t quit.
Terraforming scene – Character moment for Perry, Steve and Jenny. Superman saving the world and finally becoming the hero of earth, again, Colonel Hardy won’t quit and Hamilton knowing what to do.
Zod Vs Superman – Superman killing Zod was an emotional scene and will play out in other movies to come.

11. These are just mine; Superman being born, Clark finding out who he is, first flight scene, when Superman destroying the world engine, Superman showing up just at the nick of time destroying Zod’s ship just before it shot down the aircraft.

12. He saw a bit like on the news and radios n such but don’t we know that this will probably be the main plot to the next movie? Why else would Batman and Superman be fighting?

13. No arguing that, Superman’s has always been.

14. It did have a few chuckly moments sprinkled into the movie.

15. Oh man…not this again…HERE WE GO!
Oil Rig – 8 people
School Bus – around 20 people
Bar scene – Sort of saves for from being felt up by a drunk guy, 1
Scout Ship – 1
Black Zero – 1
Kent Farm – 1
Smallville – 3 (plus the whole town)
World Engine – The whole damn world
Metropolis fight – 5
So…that’s about 40 people not including the rest of the planet.

1.Im not saying the Krypton sequence was unneccessary.Im saying it was unnecssarily long.We got more chacracter development for Jorel than Kalel

2.I didnt say they should leave the fotress scene out. Im saying they should not have such a MASSIVE inf dump in one scene-it made the moment loose its significance.They should have sprinkled it out in other scenes.

3.This doesnt change the fact KAL BROUGHT ZOD TO EARTH!Its his mess to clean.

4.There plenty of other scenes to do that.Kal natural birth added nothing to KAL.

6.That doesnt change the fact hes being reactive.Which undersells Supermans love for humanity

7.It doesnt change my piont about MOS world being a world that doesnt need Superman now.

8.That statement has nothing to do with Jonathan wanting Clark to be a hero.In fact theres no scene in the ENTIRE movie Jonathan encourages Clark to be a hero.Just the opposite

9.Get this straight.So Jonathan tells him not to be a Hero the world will fear him and he needs to find out who he is.He goes on a journey finds out and Jorel tellshim to be a hero.What then was the piont of Jonthan being a hindrance to Clarks heroics untilhe finds out moreif at the end of the day Clarks just gonna discover he should be one?It makes no sense.
10.I didnt say the action scenes werent cool.Im saying they should have had more character moments interspersed with them

11.Too few for a Superman film.

12.It should have been in this MOVIE.Its a big part of Clarks origin arc.We shouldThats why Clark was hiding.He was hiding for fear of the worlds reaction.Yet he goes public and nothing happens.Its bad writing through and through.We should have seen the Worlds reaction to Superman when he dubuted not 2 years later when hes an established hero

13.In MOS case it was especially worse

14.Too few

15.I said Superman saves.The only people Superman saved was lois,his mom and a soldier from a copter.Too freaking low

 

[WBwins]

I wasn't opposed to seeing an origin story again, but I do think they tried to jazz it up too much in MOS. I was actually hoping for a more organic take with less destiny, no-Jesus parallels, or pompous parents that preach goodness like no real parent ever would. I would have preferred Clark's desire to come from something like the bus incident where he witnesses for himself what he can be. It's much better when he's motivated by internal influences. I think MOS did that to an extent, but that Jor-el and Codex stuff muddied the waters.

Agree

Having Jorel tell Kal to become a Hero takes away agency from his part and minimizes the impact of his human bringing.
It would have been far more interesting to see Jorel tell Kal to runfrom Zod instead of risking his Life to be a hero.Then have Kal be the one who chooses to be a hero.Imagine how powerful-it would be if Kal had been the one to say
"I can save them-I can save all of them" rather than being told.


Also if you think about it a lot of Jorels speeches were meaningless.Superman is not a guide to the people of earth.He doesnt lead them in anything.All he does is save the day.Hes a rescue worker-the most effective in the world not a Jesus-man who goes about preaching,leading people.

MOS had so much potential.My frustration on this and has led me to start writing a revised MOS story outline just to see what could have been.Posting it maybe on friday .

 

[PacificBoy]

I felt the adapted All-Star line from Jor-El wasn't a fit for the movie, since MoS was about Clark becoming Superman, and, in particular, choosing to be Superman.

The original line in All-Star Superman "You have given them an ideal to aspire to, embodied their highest aspirations" made sense in the comic as it was for an established Superman, a Superman established in deeds and in his identity.

The movie's adapted line "You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards" seemed strange at the time of utterance. It seemed to me the opposite, that the people of Earth, notably Lois and the Kents, were the ones giving Clark something to strive towards. That humans were worth saving and protecting. That earth was his home.

Or more could have been made of the certainty of the line "You will" against the element of choice (and uncertainty) in Pa Kent's "You just have to decide what kind of a man you want to grow up to be, Clark; because whoever that man is, good character or bad, he's... He's gonna change the world."

 

[Lencho01]

I can understand that perspective. I still think they'd have a bit of fear. Even if they've raised superman with a sense of community, no one can control how the world reacts to him. He may be an adult, but he's still their son. I see them supporting him despite moments of reservation, but expressing joy and pride when it finally happens.

The sense of community making life better for all reminds me a bit of this:

"If you knew how you are loved, not one of you would raise a hand in rage again."

I really like idea that superman's sense of community and general love for mankind is a gift he would be able to share even if he had no superpowers.

Yeah, the fears fine. Just not to the point of paranoia as if people are just plain evil or something. I mean, MOS had Clark go to a preacher to contemplate people can be trusted or not just like Zod. If people see that Superman is a positive, they will react postively to him. If they see that he's a negative (like MOS made it), they will react that way.

Which comic is that from?