Is Batman an athiest?

[Comic Book Boy]

well, in BR, it seems to me that batman is a christian, remember when he says "merry christmas alfred,and good will toward men..and woman". sounds like he knows his bible stuff.

I say "merry christmas"....and im freaking JEWISH!

 

[Nietzsche]

I say good will to all men and women and mean it but I don't believe i God. In some interpretaions it seems writers wanted him to, in other versions they didn't want him to. So It's up to the individual fan I guess and perhaps thats for the best.

 

[BatmanRules33]

wow, are most ppl on here athiests??wtf?? everyuones got somethin against christian sayings???

 

[The Question]

wow, are most ppl on here athiests??wtf?? everyuones got somethin against christian sayings???

Yeah, I noticed that. Mabey it's because alot of people here were considered nerd in highschool, were picked on alot, and became encreasingly bitter until they came to the coclusion that if there was a god, that sort of **** wouldn't happen to them. That's my guess.

 

[BatmanRules33]

Yeah, I noticed that. Mabey it's because alot of people here were considered nerd in highschool, were picked on alot, and became encreasingly bitter until they came to the coclusion that if there was a god, that sort of **** wouldn't happen to them. That's my guess.

lol, you might be right. i was considered a nerd too, and HATED high school with a blood red passion, but i learned one thing coming out of it: high school has always been full of pricks and that if you arent into rap/punk/goth/ or any other steriotype, then you are labeled an "outcast" but ya see i am more of a christian then most of these kids were and they took my kindness for weakness, and add in the fact i HATE rap, well, i wasnt really liked all that much. i became a loner, and to tell you the truth, i like it. i will say though, high school didnt change my beliefs, just made me feel bad for all thoselost souls who thought they were so high and mighty but once there outta school there gonna have a tough time. thats ussually the case around in my school i hear about.

 

[DarkKnightJRK]

What if Gods a girl.

If I find out that God is a girl, I'll go, "Heheh, sorry about that."

 

[thehappster]

Do you think that Batman is an athiest or at least agnostic?
As he is a master scientist, highly rational and serious and, more importantly, supposed to have a genius IQ, I can only imagine that Batman/Bruce Wayne does not believe in God or at least sees no reason to believe in him and is agnostic, claiming no knoweldge of his existence or non-existence (as none of us can). I was just wondering what you think because in contrast I would imagine that Spider-man and Captain America probably are christians or religious in some way lol. This may not be a relevant or important fact, but then neither are lots of forums in this place. So, just speculate away,
do you imagine Bruce is religious or agnostic or athiest? What would his opinion be of religious people?

Nietzsche - first of all, you are insinuating (in that Batman is a genius rational and such, and thereby can't believe in God), those that do believe in God are, well, idiots and irrational.

In that none of us can can prove his existence - how much proof do you need? The Bible has never been dis-proven. In fact, more and more evidence supports it's legitimacy.

I could cite many examples of "scientists" etc that have come to know Jesus because in trying to prove him as fiction, they couldn't, and had to come to the realization of the truth.

Obviously, Batman, nor many of the other super-heroes, are written to acknowledge God nor religion unless it forwards their character development (as evidenced in previous posts).

BTW - first post. I apologize if it's not pretty.

 

[Phantasm]

I agree completley with thehappster.
And I can't help but thibk that someone like Batman does believe in God...He spends an awful alot of time in grave yards and stuff...which have crosses and statues of angels all over them...that's a pretty religious atmosphere, fro christians I mean.

 

[thehappster]

well, in BR, it seems to me that batman is a christian, remember when he says "merry christmas alfred,and good will toward men..and woman". sounds like he knows his bible stuff.

not to argue the other side...
but, where in the bible does it say anything about christmas or good will toward men? Christmas is obviously based on the birth of Christ, as presented in the Gospels, but that saying is a popular cultural phrase, it's not really based on biblical sayings. Like another poster admits, (because of the commercialization of Christmas) members of any faith (or lack of) may recite that phrase.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Batman is a scientologist

 

[The Overlord]

The evidence is contradictory, some writers portray Batman as a Christian, others have portrayed him as a atheist. Whether Batman believes in God or not depends on the writer.

 

[Nietzsche]

Nietzsche - first of all, you are insinuating (in that Batman is a genius rational and such, and thereby can't believe in God), those that do believe in God are, well, idiots and irrational.

In that none of us can can prove his existence - how much proof do you need? The Bible has never been dis-proven. In fact, more and more evidence supports it's legitimacy.

I could cite many examples of "scientists" etc that have come to know Jesus because in trying to prove him as fiction, they couldn't, and had to come to the realization of the truth.

Obviously, Batman, nor many of the other super-heroes, are written to acknowledge God nor religion unless it forwards their character development (as evidenced in previous posts).



Im sorry if I offended anyone and can see that certain things I implied sound immature. I personally just find it irrational to believe in God. For me there is no difference between believing in God or Father Christmas. God can't be proven. God cannot be disproven. Im not a complete athiest for the fact that I don't know. I do believe Jesus existed, but I imagine he was probably some kind of freedom fighter mabe or rebel. No one can deny the fact that stories get twisted. And also, we don't know what literature and culture was really like at the time Jesus was supposed to be alive, so what appears in the bible may have had different meanings back then, as well as being exaggerated. I love the idea behind Christianity (love evryone as your neighbour etc) and agree (emotionally at least) with many of it's messages.

However, because we can't prove or disprove God either way, I think people should just say "I don't know. Mabe I'll find out when I'm dead".

Going off the topic, I do which that certain christians wouldn't hold quite so selfish and dogmatic beliefs, such as certain catholics (because catholic preists in Kenya are encouraging the poor people there not to use condoms (because it's not what God wants supposedly) and thus the aids crisis is not being helped).

So I apologise to any christoians I may have offended, but I didn't mean too. Yes, there have been geniuses who have believed in God such as Einstein, however funnily enough Einstein created a theory which actually meant that God couldn't exist for this theory to work. Im not sure how, but in some way, in his own way, he disproved God and he spent the rest of his life trying to disprove his own theory because he couldn't stand the idea of God not existing.

Anyway, I simply woundered what others thought. In some interpretations Batman is a christian, in others not it would seem. I think thats good- I like different versions.

Lastly, there is nothing to say the bible is true and I would like to state my personal belief that there is no such thing as truth (although naturally I can't prove it!), at least not in the way we think of it. For anyone who is interested in the idea that there is no such thing as truth, go read "Beyond Good and Evil" by Friedrich Nietzsche, thats the closest thing to a bible I have.

 

[thehappster]

Warning: Off-topic

Nietzche - I can't speak for others, but no offense taken on my part. I respect that you are a self-thinker and remain calm. So often in forums, talking faith means "Flame on", as Torch would say.

What I find is irrational is to think that by chance the world, heck the universe, is the way that it is today - that by chance humanity grew out of a cess pool with symmetric parts, that by chance I am alive and that I really don't have any purpose.

I respectfully disagree that God cannot be proven. I believe the bible can be proven, that Jesus can be proven, and thus that God can be proven. I also disagree that we do not know or understand was Biblical times were like.

You're obviously familiar with Nietzche (admittedly more than I), and you say that Jesus was real. Are you familiar with the argument that Jesus had to be one of three things - a liar, a lunatic, or the real thing? Pick one, I can help you verify or deny your claim.

Ask yourself this - If I find out when I'm dead about God, what if I'm wrong? If I chose to not follow Jesus now, and I die, the Bible says that I will not be sharing heaven with him. What if I'm wrong and Jesus was right? Do I want to spend eternity somewhere other than heaven?

How can there be no such thing as truth? So, 2+2=4 is not true? There has to be only one truth. Think about this, if you had been standing in line for, let's say, a concert ticket for 2 hours. I walk right up and butt in front of you because that is what is morally true to me, is that okay? I can't give you a bowl of water and tell you that it's clam chowder, because I find that to be true. There only has to be one truth.

Again, I am admitting that I'm lacking in Einstein's biography and theory. I will check it out though. I will also check out Nietzche's book. And I hope that I can offer you one to check out... try Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis.

(I hope I make some semblance of sense. I'm trying to collect many thoughts into a small space. I apologize if it seems flighty.)

 

[SatanBurger]

I'd like to take a moment to mock whoever blamed atheism on highschool alienation. If you're honestly willing to put forth such a cartoonish, insulting claim, you're either incredibly sheltered or incredibly stupid. The fact that an alarming number of Christians I consider myself close to have subscribed to similarly barbaric, black and white blanket assaults makes me wonder if putting your faith in such an outdated religion does more damage than it does "healing".

Think before you type, people. Please.

 

[TheIntellectual]

IMO, Batman has been and always WILL be an agnostic. Some people like to go with the "believing in the unproven is irrational" argument while others go with the "I believe in God because it comforts me to have that confidence". To say that Christians are irrational is unbeilevably ignorant; some of the most confident people i have ever met in my life are religious.

Anyhoo, I think Batman is an agnostic just because he is so fiercely independent and his faith died when his parents laid in his arms covered in blood. More to the point, in DKR (yes, its an elseworlds but it is undeniably true to the character) Batman states that "Life only makes sense when YOU force it to". Translation: Whether there's a god or not is beside the point; our fate is in our hands.

Which incedentally is what Nietzsche believed. People who say "Nietzsche was a meanie atheist" REALLY need to pick up a copy of Beyond Good and Evil.

For more on this topic, check out Scott Adam's God's Debris available on amazon.com. It's a great headspinner on the notions of faith, fate, and god.

 

[Comic Book Boy]

Yeah, I noticed that. Mabey it's because alot of people here were considered nerd in highschool, were picked on alot, and became encreasingly bitter until they came to the coclusion that if there was a god, that sort of **** wouldn't happen to them. That's my guess.

That's stupid.

 

[The Kid]

I SWEAR TO GOD!!

SWEAR TO ME!!!!

Does that answer your question?

Moving on...

 

[Nietzsche]

But nietzsche was very much against religion. He couldn't prove that God din't exist, simply because nothing can be proven. And 2+2= 4 only within our system of logic. Our system of logic is man amde and doesn't exist without us, Nietzsche asked such questions as "but what is 2+2=4 actually worth? Does it actrually relate to the universe? NO". Nietzsche believed also that science was only an interpretation of the world, so thats no more turthful than religion. Science helps us, he wudn't deny that, to live and stuff, but it only tells us things in a certain way, not the actual truth, not the universe in itself.

One of Nietzsche's main themes is the bewitchment of language. Language is a man made thing which is grounded by rules. thoughts can not be properly expressed through language and when things are put into words they become fixed.

Nietzsche doesn't like Sciecne because it fixes the univerese with itself. He sees the universe as random and chaotic and we try to explain oit away with science through language. Religon is also like this, but more to the point he sees it as a "suicide of reason", not that he believes reason itself is true.

He also believes that religion (more so in his day it was like this) a self tortuing thing to follow. It goes against man's natural desires and hinder man. For example, he sited three "symptoms" found in religiously neurotic people. 1. they are sexually abstinate. 2. they live in solitude 3. they fast. all these things go against human nature and what makes one healthy and happy. Im well awhere, btw, that most of u christians don't fast, live soltidue or have any less sex or any less partners than most people, but in nietzsche's time that was more common and is certainly promoted in certain parts of bible.

Most importantly, for todays world especially, he religon is used to engourage mediocrity and dumb people down and hinder those who seek to rise above. Christianity prasies the meek and seems to make all healthy, happy, confident people who seek to achieve something evil.

It makes the poor, the down hearted, the ill etc rest content, believing that paradies awaits them after death.

I was gonna go on to talk about Nietzsche's thoeyr of the Ubermensch but it's late and I can't be arsed and also I just look like I have my head up my arse.

Obviously I can't explain this as well as if you read the book yourselves, of course I have read it many times and talked to an actual philsoopher about it so may understand it better than you will on first read. But if your interested, just type look up Nietzsche on the web, find out his basic ideas to guide you and then read one of his books. "Beyond Good and Evil" is imp the best one to start with.

Anyway, I do not dislike Christians and I don't think I'm a better person than any they are (except for mabe Bush), I just wanna get that straight. I do not seek to offend. This thread became interesting and it was nice to hear people's views.

I will admit that i need to read more opf the bible myself, to get more facts from it- although I must say I don't find it very enjoyable and it is VERY open to interpretation (like Nietzsche at first glance). Anyway, BEYOND GOOD AND EVIL BY FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE and then THUS SPOKE ZARATHRUSTRA. good reading.

I did once half believe in God, but realised that i was fantasising. I wanted to believe but I also wanted to belive in father christmas. Once you become an agnostic or athiest through thinking and reasoning, if thats necessary, you don't go back. Not for me at least. I dare say Nietzsche has the potential to change christians to agnostics if properly understood, but them mabe not.

Probably no one is reading this anyway. Anyway, I don't care what people believe as long as they don't want to kill me or anyone else, not because that would be wrong (because morality doesn't exist), but because, whether by nature or nuture, I love people as brothers and don't want harm to come to anyone (how very unNietzschien of me!).

 

[Nietzsche]

Also, if God is all loving then he will not deny my entrance to heaven because I did not believe in him (afterall, i tried to belive and just couldn't. mentally impossible for me). So if he's ALL LOVING he should be ok with that. But of he really is all loving and all forgiving then hell won't exist anyway.

If the bible states that non-believers go to hell, then that is a kind of mental black mail, though of course some people, myself included, won't believe it and won't be blackmailed by it.

 

[Till_the_End]

I don't think Batman thinks a lot about God. Why should he? It doesn't really matter to him, it's not like he's fighting besides him in the dark streets of Gotham.

And just because you use the Bible or God as a reference or as a symbol, doesn't nessesarily mean you belive in God.

 

[Henry Hill]

Like others have said, it depends on which writer is writing him. I like to think of him as an atheist or at least someone who has lost hope in god. Not because I was a nerd in high school (haven't even reached high school) but because he comes across as a very bitter person and he seems to be a very scientific person and it would be a little bit of a contradiction if he did decide to believe in a religion. Either way, I think it's much better to not even bring up religion in Batman books just like it's much better to not talk about if he's a democrat or republican. It's not revelant to the stories and there will always be some overlyattached idiots that will throw a tantrum because a FICTIONAL character does not have their same beliefs.

 

[dude stannis]

He proboaly accepts that there is a god. But he's preoccupied with his war on crime to ever trully think about it. If anything, if he did follow a religion once he's too bitter about his parents to do so anymore.

 

[batmaluco]

I SWEAR TO GOD!!

SWEAR TO ME!!!!

Does that answer your question?

Moving on...

Yes. That's it.
It's a bit off topic but I saw Batman quoting Nietzsche on TAS.
Nietzsche and Batman are my favorites reading sources. And some of my Nietzsche reading friends are not batman fans (they don't know what they are missing) and vice-versa. It's nice to see a thread with both, although religious issues are always irreducible and because there are faith involved, irrefutable.
I'm not atheist, nor religious, not even agnostic.
But I believe in life.
About Batman I agree with others when they say it depends on which writer is writing him. There are so many different depictions...

 

[Spidey-Bat]

It's a bit off topic but I saw Batman quoting Nietzsche on TAS.

do you remember some?

 

[batmaluco]

do you remember some?

It would be hard to me to do this translation. I'm from Brazil and saw TAS in portuguese so this translating would probably sound very bad but its that one when Nietzsche says that "when you get used to look at the abyss, the abyss starts to look at you also".
Hope it helps.
I think it fits Batman very well.