Is Marvel TV running out of steam?

[Willie Lumpkin]

I got on board with that towards the tail end of the season and I think it ends well, but I've never had so much trouble finishing a Marvel Netflix series. Even Iron Fist, which I didn't particularly care for, was more engaging on the whole.

I remember defending Iron Fist to my wife: "It's a journey, it's an origin story. He's learning and by the end he'll be a true hero."

... then Defenders came along and made a fool of me.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm a simple old man. I like a good guy in a white hat fighting a bad guy in a white hat. And against seemingly impossible odds, the guy in the white hat wins in the end.

Give me that every time and I'll be entertained.

JJ season 2 I was frustrated with while watching it. But yet, I found myself immediately wanting to watch the next one. That's how I realized how much I liked it. I couldn't stop watching it and wanted to see where it was going. With the 2nd half of Luke Cage, it was a slog. I was marathoning it, so I finished it in one day. But, with many breaks Defender same thing happened. But I was just sucked into Punisher and JJ season 2. I sadly couldn't marathon them due to work...but I watched more episodes on a work night than I should have

 

[Spider-Fan]

I got on board with that towards the tail end of the season and I think it ends well, but I've never had so much trouble finishing a Marvel Netflix series. Even Iron Fist, which I didn't particularly care for, was more engaging on the whole.

I feel like I am the only one who liked Iron Fist sometimes

Bottom tier of the Netflix shows? Yes. Flawed? Yes. But I liked it overall. I liked it more than Luke Cage season 1 in the end (curse you Diamondback! )

 

[Flint Marko]

I feel like I am the only one who liked Iron Fist sometimes

Bottom tier of the Netflix shows? Yes. Flawed? Yes. But I liked it overall. I liked it more than Luke Cage season 1 in the end (curse you Diamondback! )

There were parts of Iron Fist I liked, Ward being the main thing really. I also think Finn Jones' performance was interesting - he was playing it like a kid. It works for the character but it's easy to see why people found him unlikable, not to mention that the writing is limp and doesn't really do anything with that.

I just recall the whole thing feeling aimless and intentionally playing coy with the stuff that would actually be exciting. Why do we never really visit Kun'lun? Why does Daredevil have some of the best recent fight choreography we've seen in any medium, but the show about the kung-fu master has to awkwardly edit around how inept our actors are at fighting?

I recall a hallway fight where they weirdly did a split-screen style thing once and never used that technique again. What sort of film-making is that?

There's good in there, but the amount of wasted potential is devastating.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I feel like I am the only one who liked Iron Fist sometimes

I liked it (at least compared to other people... and I see on my list it's just above the two that sucked you in that I had trouble finishing. )

The story in Luke Cage was weak, but the character was fun. I feel like a better villain would have made all the difference with that one.

Jessica Jones season 1 was my unquestionable favorite. The completely evil nature of the villain combined with his seemingly unstoppable power, combined with her tough exterior but innate urge to do the right thing... combined with her absolute fear of the villain she had to overcome, gave it some great elements. The pacing was a little off and they probably could have deleted or improved a few episodes, but overall, it checked all the boxes.

I absolutely loved the Fisk character in the first Daredevil, but the problem was he was almost too good. His child-like character combined with the impression that he was really doing what he felt was right made it hard to root for Daredevil to get him. I didn't have that problem with Killgrave.

 

[Dark Raven]

I remember defending Iron Fist to my wife: "It's a journey, it's an origin story. He's learning and by the end he'll be a true hero."

... then Defenders came along and made a fool of me.

You should've said that to your wife while watching Fant4stic as well.

... and then the FFINO Defenders would make a fool of you too.

 

[Spider-Fan]

There were parts of Iron Fist I liked, Ward being the main thing really. I also think Finn Jones' performance was interesting - he was playing it like a kid. It works for the character but it's easy to see why people found him unlikable, not to mention that the writing is limp and doesn't really do anything with that.

I just recall the whole thing feeling aimless and intentionally playing coy with the stuff that would actually be exciting. Why do we never really visit Kun'lun? Why does Daredevil have some of the best recent fight choreography we've seen in any medium, but the show about the kung-fu master has to awkwardly edit around how inept our actors are at fighting?

I recall a hallway fight where they weirdly did a split-screen style thing once and never used that technique again. What sort of film-making is that?

There's good in there, but the amount of wasted potential is devastating.

I liked Danny as a character, actually. But I would agree the show oddly had an issue more common in Network TV where a character is written one way in one episode, and wildly different the next (think Clark telling Lex how much he thinks of him as a brother one week and the next calling him a filthy Luthor in Smallville). Also, the fighting was bad. I chalk that up to rushed schedule though as come Defenders, Danny was MUCH improved in that area. I assume in season 2, the fighting will be vastly better. But I liked a lot of the elements of the show overall. They made the lack of being able to do spectacular things on their budget work brilliantly a few times (I really liked when Danny saw the dragon's eyes that dissolved into the lights in the finale for example).

I have high hopes for season 2.

 

[Flint Marko]

I liked Danny as a character, actually. But I would agree the show oddly had an issue more common in Network TV where a character is written one way in one episode, and wildly different the next (think Clark telling Lex how much he thinks of him as a brother one week and the next calling him a filthy Luthor in Smallville). Also, the fighting was bad. I chalk that up to rushed schedule though as come Defenders, Danny was MUCH improved in that area. I assume in season 2, the fighting will be vastly better. But I liked a lot of the elements of the show overall. They made the lack of being able to do spectacular things on their budget work brilliantly a few times (I really liked when Danny saw the dragon's eyes that dissolved into the lights in the finale for example).

I have high hopes for season 2.

Yeah I'm very curious to see how much they're going to turn things around in season 2. Getting rid of Buck was an obvious starting point, but seeing how serious Finn is about training this time around gave me hope that Iron Fist will improve. And hey, if he gets a costume I'll automatically be on board lol.

I absolutely loved the Fisk character in the first Daredevil, but the problem was he was almost too good. His child-like character combined with the impression that he was really doing what he felt was right made it hard to root for Daredevil to get him. I didn't have that problem with Killgrave.

Therein lies why I love Daredevil so much

IMO Marvel/Netflix came roaring out of the gate with not only the best superhero TV show ever made, but one of the best live-action adaptions of any superhero, period.

I don't think any of their TV shows are going to live up to that for me.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

You should've said that to your wife while watching Fant4stic as well.

... and then the FFINO Defenders would make a fool of you too.

I think I might have told the story over on the FF thread that we were watching Inhumans through the first several episodes and it was so painful that I started watching them on my own so she wouldn't have to.

She came down one Saturday morning, saw me watching it and said something like: "Oh, you're watching without me... good, I thought it was awful but I didn't want to hurt your feelings."

 

[Spider-Fan]

To be fair to Netflix on the perceived decline, Daredevil is like...one of Marvel's best characters, LOL! There is just so much juicy material for him. I think making a show about him is much easier than Iron Fist, LOL! There is a reason they started with him

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Therein lies why I love Daredevil so much

I told you, white hat, black hat, don't give me this gray hat jazz.

 

[Flint Marko]

Call me hyperbolic if you want, but this is easily one of the best opening titles of all time. I legitimately got chills the first time I heard it:

[YT]KFYFh8w4758[/YT]

 

[Dark Raven]

I think I might have told the story over on the FF thread that we were watching Inhumans through the first several episodes and it was so painful that I started watching them on my own so she wouldn't have to.

She came down one Saturday morning, saw me watching it and said something like: "Oh, you're watching without me... good, I thought it was awful but I didn't want to hurt your feelings."

Call me hyperbolic if you want, but this is easily one of the best opening titles of all time. I legitimately got chills the first time I heard it:

[YT]KFYFh8w4758[/YT]

This was the best of the Netflix openings and had the best theme tune as well.

The Iron Fist one wasn't very good, and it seemed like the CGI Iron Fist was better at Kung Fu than Finn Jones. That was probably the best display of martial arts we'd see in the series!

I told you, white hat, black hat, don't give me this gray hat jazz.

In the case of the Netflix series, for most of them it was No hat. They would only put on that hat in the last 15 minutes of episode 13 after they had earned the right to wear that hat! Then they'd spend the next season deciding if they can earn a second wearing of the hat.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I'm still enjoying most of what I'm seeing from the Marvel TV shows, but like all shows they require a great deal of time investment (even compared to the films) so they bleed viewers and interest over time. It is a rare show that doesn't.

Now granted I did skip Inhumans which was reportedly by far their biggest misfire. I even liked Iron Fist (although it was indeed the weakest of the Netflix bunch), but Inhumans just looked so bad that I just couldn't get any sort of enthusiasm to watch it at all.

 

[Big Bang]

Call me hyperbolic if you want, but this is easily one of the best opening titles of all time. I legitimately got chills the first time I heard it:

[YT]KFYFh8w4758[/YT]

The Daredevil intro is something special. It still give me chills. Of all the intros to me, the only other good one was Luke Cage.

Lately I haven't been able to shake the impression they are holding back. Not saying it is necessarily true or valid, but it's a feeling I've had.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Daredevil has an amazing opening, but I also love The Punisher's!

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I like the opening to Jessica Jones too.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I also have to say, I am stoked for Punisher season 2. Especially since Ben Barnes is coming back. For me, Billy Russo was the 3rd best Netflix villain (only behind Fisk & Killgrave).

 

[Web-Head]

I feel like I am the only one who liked Iron Fist sometimes

Bottom tier of the Netflix shows? Yes. Flawed? Yes. But I liked it overall. I liked it more than Luke Cage season 1 in the end (curse you Diamondback! )

I'm with you SF. At first I didn't mind Iron Fist, liked it better than Luke Cage but over time I grew to like it a little less.

I do like what I'm hearing about season 2 but it sounds like Danny still doesn't totally shine

I don't blame Finn. In fact, he played Danny pretty well when he's the jokey, lighthearted Danny I loved reading but when they had him be bruting and moody- it didn't necessarily work.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I liked David Wenham in Iron Fist. The show was far more interesting when he was around on-screen.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Punisher was great. Daredevil was Great. Iron Fist sucked, the martial arts choreography sucked, and the budget was depressingly low too. Luke Cage was good, but not great. Defenders had too much filler, very low budget for a 'street level' Avengers, and it showed; could have been spectacular.

Jessica Jones Season 1 was terrific, haven't finished Season 2 yet.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

idk, with the exception of Defenders and LC, the Netflix shows have been great, AoS maybe had one of their worst seasons this year but it is still one of the most enjoyable CB shows on network TV right now and for the limited budget they have, they are doing wonderful stuff.
Runaways was a good show too, for a teen drama, which I have to admit is not my thing.
The only complete failure was Inhumans

 

[Thör-El]

Regarding the Netflix shows specifically, here is the order I would personally put them in from favorite to least favorite:

1. Jessica Jones Season 1 (2)
2. Daredevil Season 1 (1)
3. Daredevil Season 2 (3)
4. Luke Cage (4)
5. Defenders (6)
6. Iron Fist (5)
7. Punisher (7)
8. Jessica Jones Season 2 (8)

The numbers in parenthesis show the order in which the shows were released, and there is a definite correlation between when the shows were released and how much I enjoyed them.

I asked in another thread if it was because the shows were getting worse or if they seemed fresh at first and are now losing their novelty. I suspect it's a combination, but I'm not sure how much is which.

It isn't quite as clear cut for me but yeah, when it comes to Marvel on Netflix the best 3 seasons were the first 3 so there's a bit of a pattern:

1. Daredevil Season 1 (1)
2. Jessica Jones Season 1 (2)
3. Daredevil Season 2 (3)
4. Punisher (7)
5. Defenders (6)
6. Luke Cage (4)
7. Jessica Jones Season 2 (8)
8. Iron Fist (5)

I've got high hopes for Daredevil season 3 though, it looks like they're adapting Born Again.

Agents of Shield might finally be winding down but credit where it's due it just kept getting better and better between seasons 1 and 4 (and 5 was still good) which is more than you can say for any other comic book show.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I have high hopes for Cloak and Dagger for some reason.

 

[chamber-music]

The guy on reddit who leaked a bunch of stuff about Marvels Netflix shows which turned out to be true has said Luke Cage season 2 is one of Marvel's best seasons of television.

"Luke Cage 2 has some of the best fight choreography since DD season 1. This seasons villain, Bushmaster, does an interesting mix of regular kickboxing mixed with some flashy capoeira moves."

"There is a great teamup Episode with Danny in Luke Cage 2 though... they even manage to rehabilitate Danny. He is way more relaxed and fun and not a whiny ash**** in this show."

Luke Cage season 2 is my new favorite out of all the shows. They do Mariahs character arc perfectly and they change focus between her and the new villain so it stays interesting the whole season. Luke also gets an interesting arc, being tempted by power and angry about the fruitlessness of fighting crime. its great."