Is the eye makeup necessary?

[Chris Wallace]

Ever since Batman '89, nearly every masked character with visible eyeholes has had painted eyelids.

Green Lantern wore a DIGITAL mask and yet had digital eye makeup.

I'm just wondering if the look really benefits.
Thoughts?

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

It just looks better...I...guess...?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

It makes the eyes pop. So to speak.

 

[El Payaso]

Yes, it is.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Yes, it is.

Your opinions are usually more elaborate than this.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Nite-Owl in Watchmen didn't have the eye make up on, but he wore goggles most of the time. He also had quite a few moments where he took his mask off, so it would have looked awkward to do the switchover, like Keaton's famous mask removal at the end of BR.
But aye, the mask does not look as good when he has the goggles off, the superhero look is lessened I would say, he looks far more ordinary, rather than larger than life, as he should.
The eye make up helps give them that otherworldy superhero look, that sets them apart from the ordinary person.

It looks awkward in Batman Returns when Keaton makes that switchover, but they just about get away with it as it is a very quick moment.

But in that moment, you can ascertain for yourself whether it's a good idea or not, and I would say that Keaton kooks better in the mask with the eye make up on.
What it simply is is an attempt to replicate the look of the artwork in the books, so they have to draw a wee bit in to get there, lol. Superheroes in masks don't really look human in comic books, they have blank eyes most of the time, the make up helps give us an effect onscreen like that.

edit: Even apart from the obvious fact that it would be nigh on impossible to design a comfortable mask that sat exactly round your eyeballs.
As SH said, it makes the eyes pop out, better than any mask would.

Man, when i used to play in a band, i wore make up just like that round my eyes, a. cause i had deep set eyes, it suited me, and it made me look better onstage, and b. cause i wanted to be and look like a superhero. I never thought about the fact they did it in the movies, I was just copying Syd Barrett who wore eye make up onstage, lol.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Ever since Batman '89, nearly every masked character with visible eyeholes has had painted eyelids.

Green Lantern wore a DIGITAL mask and yet had digital eye makeup.

I'm just wondering if the look really benefits.
Thoughts?

Yes it is. The characters in question wouldn't look as good without it.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I am not against eye makeup. I'm looking for opinions.

 

[Dark Raven]

Why can't they just make masks with smaller eyeholes that won't require eye makeup?

 

[Ponyboy]

after this little goof, I'd say yes it is necessary (at least for Batman)

 

[Chris Wallace]

Nite-Owl in Watchmen didn't have the eye make up on, but he wore goggles most of the time. He also had quite a few moments where he took his mask off, so it would have looked awkward to do the switchover, like Keaton's famous mask removal at the end of BR.
But aye, the mask does not look as good when he has the goggles off, the superhero look is lessened I would say, he looks far more ordinary, rather than larger than life, as he should.
The eye make up helps give them that otherworldy superhero look, that sets them apart from the ordinary person.

It looks awkward in Batman Returns when Keaton makes that switchover, but they just about get away with it as it is a very quick moment.

But in that moment, you can ascertain for yourself whether it's a good idea or not, and I would say that Keaton kooks better in the mask with the eye make up on.
What it simply is is an attempt to replicate the look of the artwork in the books, so they have to draw a wee bit in to get there, lol. Superheroes in masks don't really look human in comic books, they have blank eyes most of the time, the make up helps give us an effect onscreen like that.

edit: Even apart from the obvious fact that it would be nigh on impossible to design a comfortable mask that sat exactly round your eyeballs.
As SH said, it makes the eyes pop out, better than any mask would.

Man, when i used to play in a band, i wore make up just like that round my eyes, a. cause i had deep set eyes, it suited me, and it made me look better onstage, and b. cause i wanted to be and look like a superhero. I never thought about the fact they did it in the movies, I was just copying Syd Barrett who wore eye make up onstage, lol.

The only true exception is Captain America, whose eyeholes sit apart from his eyes in the comics. So I can see why they wouldn't paint his eyelids. That said, I agree with all of your points.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Why can't they just make masks with smaller eyeholes that won't require eye makeup?

Probably because they want the actors to be able to-you know, see.

 

[Dark Raven]

Probably because they want the actors to be able to-you know, see.

Of course they'll still be able to see. Are you telling me they can't make smaller eyeholes that don't require them to blacken their face under their eyes? All of those eyeholes in the masks in those pictures are pretty big.

 

[Majik1387]

Because smaller eyeholes are more likely to irritate/cut an actors eye.

And yes, the dark make up can also hide the shape of ones' orbital area and prevent anyone from recognizing them unmasked.

 

[B]

after this little goof, I'd say yes it is necessary (at least for Batman)

This.

I know it sounds odd considering we are talking about eye makeup, but it makes him look more intimidating I think. Particularly in darker scenes when all you can really see is the whites of his eyes.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Solid arguments, B & Malik.

 

[tecnowraith]

Well ask yourselves this, which would be better in live-action, eye make-up to show their eyes or a white or semi-clear eye piece like Spidey's mask (not big of course) be close to comics drawings?

 

[Lencho01]

I brought this up in the Batsuit thread in the TDKR forum a few days ago. I personally don't think it would be an issue as long as the actor can sell their intimidation.

An early draft of BB was brought up in which the scene where Bruce returns to his birthday party, Alfred reminds him that he still has his eye make-up on. I was always under the impression that they just wanted us to "think" that the make-up wasn't there and it was just part of the mask. BB went out of its way show this with those masks Bruce and Alfred were checking out.

Kick-Ass is the only film I can think of that I've seen where the make-up was shown to actually be make-up since they were going the "real" route.

As far as Batman on film goes, I still think something like Daredevil or GL's CGI eyes (the posters) would be cool to see. Probably done the way Rorschach's mask was done.

I liked this look compared to the actual film...

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

How Rorschach was done...

[YT]6u9lntXrcmM[/YT]

 

[Chris Wallace]

after this little goof, I'd say yes it is necessary (at least for Batman)

1-this happened because the movie doesn't want to acknowledge that he's wearing eye makeup. When Bale unmasked in Begins, his back was to the camera. But I'd be willing to bet that if the camera swung around, his face would've been clean. The only movie I can think of that told the truth about painted eyes was Big Daddy in Kick-Ass.
2-are you saying you couldn't have dealt with this image for 2 hours, 7 times?t:

 

[Chris Wallace]

I brought this up in the Batsuit thread in the TDKR forum a few days ago. I personally don't think it would be an issue as long as the actor can sell their intimidation.

An early draft of BB was brought up in which the scene where Bruce returns to his birthday party, Alfred reminds him that he still has his eye make-up on. I was always under the impression that they just wanted us to "think" that the make-up wasn't there and it was just part of the mask. BB went out of its way show this with those masks Bruce and Alfred were checking out.

Kick-Ass is the only film I can think of that I've seen where the make-up was shown to actually be make-up since they were going the "real" route.

As far as Batman on film goes, I still think something like Daredevil or GL's CGI eyes (the posters) would be cool to see. Probably done the way Rorschach's mask was done.

I liked this look compared to the actual film...

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

How Rorschach was done...

[YT]6u9lntXrcmM[/YT]

I mentioned this in my opening post. Look at your GL pics again. Even though he is in reality wearing a digital mask, it comes with digital "eye makeup". In the movie, when he blinks, you see green eyelids. It's essentially the same thing, done to keep a sense of continuity between where the mask ends and the eye begins. As for Rorschach, he's irrelevant to this discussion because we can't see his eyes when he's in the mask. No visible eyes, no eye makeup. And Daredevil wore lenses like Spider-Man, only smaller.

 

[Lencho01]

I mentioned this in my opening post. Look at your GL pics again. Even though he is in reality wearing a digital mask, it comes with digital "eye makeup". In the movie, when he blinks, you see green eyelids. It's essentially the same thing, done to keep a sense of continuity between where the mask ends and the eye begins. As for Rorschach, he's irrelevant to this discussion because we can't see his eyes when he's in the mask. No visible eyes, no eye makeup. And Daredevil wore lenses like Spider-Man, only smaller.

With GL, I didn't get the sense that it was much like real make-up that we've seen with masks like Batman, Comedian, etc. So, I didn't really see it as being the same thing as far as looks go. Seemed that they were going for a mask that really did cover all around his eyes.

With Rorschach, I'm saying they could film a mask with no make-up and leave it open like they did or more specifically, Keaton when he took of his mask. Then later use CGI to cover it (like Daredevil, GL, or however they want to depict a character wearing a mask) if they want to give a sort of glass/plastic lenses look.

Another thing with make-up, if worn, should it be the same color as the mask or does it depend on the situation/look of the character?

 

[Chris Wallace]

Again, the reason why I put Lantern in the same category is because I saw him blink in the movie and when he did, I saw green eyelids. And if you look, the "mask" pretty much ends at the same point as O'Donnell's.

They could just as easily have gone with an all-white eye area but they chose not to. As for your question, I say it depends. Clooney wore a blue mask with black eyeshadow. Carrey wore a green mask, green eyeshadow. Silverstone-purple mask, black eyeshadow. Everyone else pretty much matched their mask.
Where are you getting this Daredevil notion from? I see lenses, not CGI.

 

[Lencho01]

Again, the reason why I put Lantern in the same category is because I saw him blink in the movie and when he did, I saw green eyelids. And if you look, the "mask" pretty much ends at the same point as O'Donnell's.

They could just as easily have gone with an all-white eye area but they chose not to. As for your question, I say it depends. Clooney wore a blue mask with black eyeshadow. Carrey wore a green mask, green eyeshadow. Silverstone-purple mask, black eyeshadow. Everyone else pretty much matched their mask.
Where are you getting this Daredevil notion from? I see lenses, not CGI.

Maybe I'll need to see GL again to refresh my memory on how they did it in action. Though, I don't really want to see the film again. Maybe just a clip somewhere.

Silverstone's was purple? I keep thinking it was black. Another to the list of references Shumacher wanted to make to Adam West show, I guess.

Here's what Smallville did with Stargirl. Blue make-up with her blue mask...

Spoiler

For Daredevil, I meant using CGI for lenses rather than filming the actor with real ones. I remember seeing pics of Batman (I think it was Dick) and some of Green Arrow where the artist made the whites of the eyes actually be some sort of lenses rather than just simply making them white as usualyl seen with people with masks. I thought it'd be interesting to see something like that happen. Though, the art looked more like the GL posters where you can see the shape of his iris.

As for the CGI, I thought of that route since it'd likely help the actor with their performance.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Because smaller eyeholes are more likely to irritate/cut an actors eye.

And yes, the dark make up can also hide the shape of ones' orbital area and prevent anyone from recognizing them unmasked.

Agreed.

Well ask yourselves this, which would be better in live-action, eye make-up to show their eyes or a white or semi-clear eye piece like Spidey's mask (not big of course) be close to comics drawings?

The eye make-up. You ever wonder why Spider-Man kept taking his mask off in the Raimi Spider-Man films? Because it prevents the actor from being able to use their facial expressions as a part of his performance.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Maybe I'll need to see GL again to refresh my memory on how they did it in action. Though, I don't really want to see the film again. Maybe just a clip somewhere.

Silverstone's was purple? I keep thinking it was black. Another to the list of references Shumacher wanted to make to Adam West show, I guess.

Here's what Smallville did with Stargirl. Blue make-up with her blue mask...

Spoiler

For Daredevil, I meant using CGI for lenses rather than filming the actor with real ones. I remember seeing pics of Batman (I think it was Dick) and some of Green Arrow where the artist made the whites of the eyes actually be some sort of lenses rather than just simply making them white as usualyl seen with people with masks. I thought it'd be interesting to see something like that happen. Though, the art looked more like the GL posters where you can see the shape of his iris.

As for the CGI, I thought of that route since it'd likely help the actor with their performance.

Actually, it seems her makeup was purple too.

In terms of the comics, I believe Batman & Co. have been wearing lenses for awhile now. You keep saying CGI lenses in reference to Daredevil but Daredevil wore real ones. If you're suggesting they COULD HAVE or SHOULD HAVE gone the CGI route you need to make that clearer. But because Daredevil's eyes are and always have been and always will be covered in the comics-

Which is more necessary in his case than anyone else, since revealing his eyes would also reveal his blindness, the eye makeup argument has no relevance with him.
Oh-as for Stargirl, I did say most of the time the makeup matches the mask.