The Dark Knight Is The Joker Hype reaching ridiculously high expectations?

[Boom]

If this isn't in the appropriate thread/forum, please merge as needed . I've been reading alot of comments around here lately, and I decided to write up this short essay concerning my fear that people are setting insatiable expectations concerning Heath Ledger's performance.

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The Joker is a pop culture icon. He’s a staple to the Batman mythos, and is such a huge character, that even “the general public” knows who he is. The comic books, the television shows (both live action and animated), the Jack Nicholson portrayal in Tim Burton’s film. The fact is this: The Joker is a character not to be taken lightly, and the task of bringing him justice is a daunting task.

Heath Ledger is one of those actors who picks his roles based on whether or not he has something to offer the character. Ledger didn’t sign the contract because it was his chance to play a famous and iconic character, resulting in mainstream recognition and massive paychecks. He took the part because he saw a chance to breathe air into this character.

Heath is an exceptional actor, and this truth shines in his bringing The Joker to life. Dedicated, committed, and focused, he took measures to fall into the character’s psyche. He kept diaries, he coached his voice, and he brought ideas to the set every day. Anything he needed to do in order to further his character’s development. Whether it be little ticks The Joker has (such as tilting his head, or swaying his arms as he walks), or a child-like voice, these small things round out the character and make him all the more real.

People will love or hate Ledger’s performance. As much effort as he put into it, that’s just the way it is. Neither party is right or wrong. All the same, it’s indisputable that Ledger poured himself into the character, and offered the best of his talents.

Months before the movie’s release, and Heath’s performance is already being praised and acclaimed. “Iconic.” “Phenomenal.” “Breath-taking.” “Inspiring.” Now people are speculating as to whether or not this “iconic” performance is enough to earn Ledger a posthumous Oscar nomination in 2009. The movie hasn’t even been screened yet outside of Warner Brothers studios, and the hype for Ledger’s Joker just keeps on climbing.

My question is this: In the long run, will it live up to these elevating standards? If history has taught us anything, it’s that over-hyping something is dangerous territory. Is it wise for people to go into “The Dark Knight” under the notion that they are about to witness a guaranteed Oscar nominated performance? Is it wise to convince yourself that this will be the greatest villainous role of the last decade, so long before the movie’s release?

This individual says no, it isn’t.

Don’t get me wrong. Nothing would please me more than to walk out of the theater on July 18th with my mind completely blown away. Nothing would make me happier than to see Heath Ledger give one of the best performances I have ever seen. If that were to be the case, then I’d be first in line for the “Heath Ledger for Best Supporting Actor 2009” rally. But I can’t convince myself that these are certainties. There are still things about this character that I have yet to see, and won’t get to see until this July. Why set myself up for possible disappointment if I'm going into the movie nearly blind?

 

[Agent of Chaos]

...

 

[Boom]

"Is it wise for people to go into “The Dark Knight” under the notion that they are about to witness a guaranteed Oscar nominated performance? Is it wise to convince yourself that this will be the greatest villainous role of the last decade, so long before the movie’s release?"


Yes. Nuff Said.

Thank you for such a great contribution to this thread .

 

[Agent of Chaos]

...

 

[BankManager]

I think it will be good.

 

[gwynplaine]

If this isn't in the appropriate thread/forum, please merge as needed . I've been reading alot of comments around here lately, and I decided to write up this short essay concerning my fear that people are setting insatiable expectations concerning Heath Ledger's performance.

-------------------
The Joker is a pop culture icon. He’s a staple to the Batman mythos, and is such a huge character, that even “the general public” knows who he is. The comic books, the television shows (both live action and animated), the Jack Nicholson portrayal in Tim Burton’s film. The fact is this: The Joker is a character not to be taken lightly, and the task of bringing him justice is a daunting task.

Heath Ledger is one of those actors who picks his roles based on whether or not he has something to offer the character. Ledger didn’t sign the contract because it was his chance to play a famous and iconic character, resulting in mainstream recognition and massive paychecks. He took the part because he saw a chance to breathe air into this character.

Heath is an exceptional actor, and this truth shines in his bringing The Joker to life. Dedicated, committed, and focused, he took measures to fall into the character’s psyche. He kept diaries, he coached his voice, and he brought ideas to the set every day. Anything he needed to do in order to further his character’s development. Whether it be little ticks The Joker has (such as tilting his head, or swaying his arms as he walks), or a child-like voice, these small things round out the character and make him all the more real.

People will love or hate Ledger’s performance. As much effort as he put into it, that’s just the way it is. Neither party is right or wrong. All the same, it’s indisputable that Ledger poured himself into the character, and offered the best of his talents.

Months before the movie’s release, and Heath’s performance is already being praised and acclaimed. “Iconic.” “Phenomenal.” “Breath-taking.” “Inspiring.” Now people are speculating as to whether or not this “iconic” performance is enough to earn Ledger a posthumous Oscar nomination in 2009. The movie hasn’t even been screened yet outside of Warner Brothers studios, and the hype for Ledger’s Joker just keeps on climbing.

My question is this: In the long run, will it live up to these elevating standards? If history has taught us anything, it’s that over-hyping something is dangerous territory. Is it wise for people to go into “The Dark Knight” under the notion that they are about to witness a guaranteed Oscar nominated performance? Is it wise to convince yourself that this will be the greatest villainous role of the last decade, so long before the movie’s release?

This individual says no, it isn’t.

Don’t get me wrong. Nothing would please me more than to walk out of the theater on July 18th with my mind completely blown away. Nothing would make me happier than to see Heath Ledger give one of the best performances I have ever seen. If that were to be the case, then I’d be first in line for the “Heath Ledger for Best Supporting Actor 2009” rally. But I can’t convince myself that these are certainties. There are still things about this character that I have yet to see, and won’t get to see until this July. Why set myself up for possible disappointment if I'm going into the movie nearly blind?

Good post. But this is a TDK forum , so of course ppl are going to be excited and have high expectations for the movie and Heath's contribution, plus from what we've seen so far, Heath's performance and commitment does indeed look phenomenal. But I guess we'll only know on July 18th.

 

[ironwez20]

lol i smell a venom and joker i thing going on lol. i bet right after the movies realesed people are gonna get all mad about jokers screentime

 

[The Battousai]

lol i smell a venom and joker i thing going on lol. i bet right after the movies realesed people are gonna get all mad about jokers screentime

...

 

[Sandouras]

Dont be naive Boom. This is SHH. Ledger is great, probably perfect for the role, but noone has seen it yet. But will nolan's joker allow for more acting other than growling or laughing? We will have to wait and see. People in here will claim its for the oscar's or the best performance in the world if they like it. Havent you seen how they overreact to everything in here?

Regardless of Ledger's or Downey's or whoever's acting, the oscar will go to a pretentious movie and its actors. A movie forged with the sole purpose to get an oscar. Like the pretentious overrated "million $ baby". I mean, come on, what was so special about the directing that earned them an oscar? Dont get me wrong i liked it, but the directing was basic to say the least. For one BB had so much more stuff in its direction. So many little details that weaved the web of the movie. I am not saying it should get an oscar, but seriously, it was superior to Clint's movie.

 

[BAILY]

at the very least.. Heath will give an 'interesting' performance.. I'm going into it hoping for a twisted Joker and from what I've read and seen thus far.. I won't be disappointed... but all this Oscar-talk and stuff is a little too much especially since NO ONE but Nolan has actually seen ANY cut of the movie .. wait til the movie comes out and we all get a chance to see Heath's performance before talk like that is thrown around ..just my two cents

 

[Keyser Soze]

Good post, Boom. I think we must also factor in the impact of Heath Ledger's death. Before, expectations were colossally high with Heath playing The Joker, and the hype behind it. But now, this is more than just Batman fans expecting a Joker for the ages. Now, a much wider audience has their eyes on "The Dark Knight", expecting with Ledger's performance as The Joker something legendary, something that will seal his legacy forever.

Can his Joker live up to it? Who knows. But I wouldn't assume that high expectations and Oscar talk always hurts a film/performance. Take this past year. I heard for several months before seeing "There Will Be Blood" that Daniel Day-Lewis was a surefire Oscar winner, giving one of the best performances in recent memory. And he more than lived up to expectations when I finally saw it. And I heard several months before seeing "No Country For Old Men" that Anton Chigurh would be recognised as one of the all-time great movie villains. And sure enough, after seeing the film, despite high expectations I walked out with them satisfied, viewing Chigurh as one of the best movie villains ever.

 

[Cain]

Good post and I agree with a lot of it. I think there is a danger that has been overlooked and that is the perception of non-fans and casual fans. What I mean is the people who aren't really seeing this cause it's the BB follow up or the new Batman but much more so cause The Joker is in it. Take this website I mod at which appeals to hip hop heads a demographic that is a lot more general when it comes to film cause what they geek out over is mostly music. I'v seen people there complain about the marketing being shifted away from The Joker talking about he's the only real appeal to them. I say it's smart cause it doesn't overexpose the character and considering what Nolan has said about his screen time it's very wise cause of that.

However there are many people like those folks and even people at my job and friends from my neighborhood who are beyond hyped for The Joker. I can't help they will be dissapointed when they see the movie and realize that he won't be in it as much as they expect. I think the general audience is expecting The Joker to dominate a lot of the picture ala Nicholson and will end up undermining the film when they find out that's not the case. Now being an internet regular I know he will be like "the shark from JAWS" meaning his presence will be felt throughout the film and his scenes will all be "money shots" cause they'll be extra memorable since he won't have as much screen time as most of the principal characters. Of course like everyone else here I know this cause I've read all of Nolan's interviews regarding TDK. I know this is really Bruce Wayne/Batman and Harvey Dent/Two-Face's movie above everything else. However there are a lot of people out there who don't know this and I think their expectations are ridiculously high and they're setting themselves up for possible dissapointment because of this.

 

[ThePunchLine]

at the very least.. Heath will give an 'interesting' performance.. I'm going into it hoping for a twisted Joker and from what I've read and seen thus far.. I won't be disappointed... but all this Oscar-talk and stuff is a little too much especially since NO ONE but Nolan has actually seen ANY cut of the movie .. wait til the movie comes out and we all get a chance to see Heath's performance before talk like that is thrown around ..just my two cents

Well that is the thing isnt it, when it comes out, it wont be expectations anymore...because people wont be expecting anything cos they've seen the movie already. It is all about the lead-up

But yeah agreed. Dont have that much apart from the trailer to base our expectations off.

 

[Saint]

Anytime

With no disrespect, no one cares about your "individual" thought
dont go about writing a short essay about it...come'on
because even you, well hell everyone knows your not in for a dissapointment

You are posting on a discussion forum. Therefore, you apparently believe your individual thought is worth hearing, so why not Boom's?

Moreover: if you don't want to hear other people's thoughts, why are you on a forum in the first place?

 

[Anita18]

at the very least.. Heath will give an 'interesting' performance.. I'm going into it hoping for a twisted Joker and from what I've read and seen thus far.. I won't be disappointed... but all this Oscar-talk and stuff is a little too much especially since NO ONE but Nolan has actually seen ANY cut of the movie .. wait til the movie comes out and we all get a chance to see Heath's performance before talk like that is thrown around ..just my two cents

I too think it will be interesting. I remember after I saw the prologue, I had no clue what to think of Heath's performance since it wasn't what I was expecting at all. (And I'm not sure what I was expecting in the first place either, LOL.) I couldn't decide on whether I liked it or not. Now it's grown on me and I can see where he plans to take the character.

I don't think it will be a Joker performance we're expecting. It won't look or sound like Jack Nicholson or Mark Hamill, but I think that if we keep open minds, we'll be in for a treat.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Good post and I agree with a lot of it. I think there is a danger that has been overlooked and that is the perception of non-fans and casual fans. What I mean is the people who aren't really seeing this cause it's the BB follow up or the new Batman but much more so cause The Joker is in it. Take this website I mod at which appeals to hip hop heads a demographic that is a lot more general when it comes to film cause what they geek out over is mostly music. I'v seen people there complain about the marketing being shifted away from The Joker talking about he's the only real appeal to them. I say it's smart cause it doesn't overexpose the character and considering what Nolan has said about his screen time it's very wise cause of that.

However there are many people like those folks and even people at my job and friends from my neighborhood who are beyond hyped for The Joker. I can't help they will be dissapointed when they see the movie and realize that he won't be in it as much as they expect. I think the general audience is expecting The Joker to dominate a lot of the picture ala Nicholson and will end up undermining the film when they find out that's not the case. Now being an internet regular I know he will be like "the shark from JAWS" meaning his presence will be felt throughout the film and his scenes will all be "money shots" cause they'll be extra memorable since he won't have as much screen time as most of the principal characters. Of course like everyone else here I know this cause I've read all of Nolan's interviews regarding TDK. I know this is really Bruce Wayne/Batman and Harvey Dent/Two-Face's movie above everything else. However there are a lot of people out there who don't know this and I think their expectations are ridiculously high and they're setting themselves up for possible dissapointment because of this.

I don't think The Joker's screen-time will be TOO minimal. Based on the reports I've read, and particularly the latest interview material with Nolan, I get the sense that, while "Batman Begins" was a Batman-focused character study, "The Dark Knight" is expanding in scope into more of an ensemble piece, telling not just the story of Batman, but the story of Gotham City, and a whole variety of its notable residents.

 

[deathfromabove]

Anytime

With no disrespect, no one cares about your "individual" thought
dont go about writing a short essay about it...come'on
because even you, well hell everyone knows your not in for a dissapointment

keep talkin boom...

because i care.

good post.

 

[Anita18]

I know this is really Bruce Wayne/Batman and Harvey Dent/Two-Face's movie above everything else. However there are a lot of people out there who don't know this and I think their expectations are ridiculously high and they're setting themselves up for possible dissapointment because of this.

I remember my friend being disappointed in POTC3 since Chow Yun-Fat had first-billing but was only in the movie for like, 5 minutes. (I wasn't as disappointed since I spoiled myself beforehand and knew he was slated to go 20 minutes in. )

It's a good idea that Nolan was trying to explain that Harvey Dent is the backbone of the film, and to switch the marketing focus as the movie approaches. Of course people are going to want to see the Joker, but I hope that they'll lower their expectations about the amount of screentime he's going to get as the opening date draws closer.

 

[Mee]

Moreover: if you don't want to hear other people's thoughts, why are you on a forum in the first place?

So he can read them.

Ahem. Anyway.

Let people get hyped, who cares. Some people are taking it too far, setting their expectations to high, that's up to them. Let em.

If it is mindblowing and Oscar worthy, great. But I just want to enjoy it.

 

[Cain]

I don't think The Joker's screen-time will be TOO minimal. Based on the reports I've read, and particularly the latest interview material with Nolan, I get the sense that, while "Batman Begins" was a Batman-focused character study, "The Dark Knight" is expanding in scope into more of an ensemble piece, telling not just the story of Batman, but the story of Gotham City, and a whole variety of its notable residents.

The problem lies with this interpretation of the chraracter being an absolute meaning there won't be much to tell about him in the first place as you can define what is. His actions will define him but that's all there won't be any real development there is he's being treated as such. The character won't be explored like say Batman, Dent and even Gordon more than likely will. So why should I expect he will have a lot of screen time especially when the director has said that he's not a real focus and is more of a tool used to drive the point of the escalation from movie 1 to movie 2.

Plus we have subplots involving the media influence (which I'm very excited about) plus the mob and also Lau. I don't know man I have no problem with The Joker playing a secondary role by any means and I'm one of those who is a fan of a Joker with no origin. However even though Two-Face is my favorite villain in the eyes of the mainstream The Joker is Batman's greatest rogue and as much of an icon if not more popular with them than the caped crusader himself. I already see the "why was Joker not in the whole movie?" complains coming from that audience.

 

[Cain]

I remember my friend being disappointed in POTC3 since Chow Yun-Fat had first-billing but was only in the movie for like, 5 minutes. (I wasn't as disappointed since I spoiled myself beforehand and knew he was slated to go 20 minutes in. )

It's a good idea that Nolan was trying to explain that Harvey Dent is the backbone of the film, and to switch the marketing focus as the movie approaches. Of course people are going to want to see the Joker, but I hope that they'll lower their expectations about the amount of screentime he's going to get as the opening date draws closer.

I really hope so too miss but somehow I have a feeling that's not gonna happen especially with Mr. Ledger's passing garnering even more interest for this character.

 

[Mister J]

Good post, Boom. This could go under the main Joker thread, but it's something that's ripe for debate and needs some visibility for a while. The accolades for Heath's performance keep pouring in, in furtherance of anything I've ever seen in this genre. I believe there's been enough shown to whet the appetite and indicate something that 'should' be good, but there is much hyperbole being tossed around at this point. I'm certainly looking forward to it, but after the performance of some recent comic films, I'm paring my expectations, be it a specific performance or the film in totality. I'll toss around the superlatives after emerging from the IMAX in the early morning of the 18th.

Anytime

With no disrespect, no one cares about your "individual" thought
dont go about writing a short essay about it...come'on
because even you, well hell everyone knows your not in for a dissapointment

Actually, the ongoing activity of this forum (and message boards, in general) is predicated on individual thought. Your harping otherwise on an opinion you disagree with isn't going to change that. You're not under any obligation to read or respond to someone's post, so please refrain from such trollish behavior in the future.

...with no disrespect.

 

[GregComicFan]

I disagree.... the Joker hype has not reached HUGE proportions at all.

1) this is a SHH board... so everybody here is hyped. the general public? not as much.
2) the director (Nolan) is OF COURSE going to praise his actor. What do you expect him to say? "Heath's performance was sub-par! Ho-hum! Just okay!" hahaha, yeah riiiiiight....
3) Everybody was hyped up to see Bale as Batman. Nolan and everybody involved in the filmmaking of Batman Begins praised his work. Then the general public saw Batman Begins. Bale was great. But was he nominated for an Oscar? No. Did AFI name Batman Begins one of the 100 greatest films of all time? No.

Dont worry about it. Heath is gonna be great as the Joker.

but I seriously doubt Oscar-nominations for TDK.

Greg

 

[BatSpider]

Yep, its preatty much Oscar-Nomination high for him

 

[GoogleMe94]

yeah i keep hearing how great ledger is supposed to be, personally i dont know what to think. will he be as wacky and cool and darkly funny as nicholson was? i doubt it. i will try to go into the movie without rediculous expectations, if i can help it.