Endgame IW and EG are fantastic movies, but...

[shabadoo25]

...they aren't good superhero stories.

They are good movies because they are well written, well acted, funny, action packed and enjoyable upon multiple viewings. Most importantly, non-comic book fans can enjoy them also.

However, when compared to the great team superhero comics, their stories aren't great. Why? For a few reasons.

1. Thanos is virtually indestructible. No villain should be able to shrug off a full power lightning, energy or mystical powers blast like it was being hit with a strong gust of wind. Even if they can, it should weaken them somewhat for the next assault.

2. Too many one-on-one attacks on Thanos by the heroes. The most effective attack on him in both of these movies was the group attack on Titan when they almost got the gauntlet off. This involved a Mantis mind whammy. The Scarlet Witch mind whammy could have really incapacitated him.

3. The best part of any Avengers/Justice League comic is when the heroes combine their strengths in a coordinated attack on a powerful foe. Continuing to go at him one on one was dumb.

4. Finally, he wasn't defeated by any power that the heroes had. He was defeated by a human wielding the Infinity Stones. Therefore, nothing the heroes had or could do took him down. He lost because of the guile and suicide move of Tony Stark, a normal human. This might be good script writing, but it's not in the best tradition of how superheroes defeat their enemies.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Every one of your points elicits an "Uh... What?" from me.

As does the need to create this thread.

 

[Limonade]

...they aren't good superhero stories.

They are good movies because they are well written, well acted, funny, action packed and enjoyable upon multiple viewings. Most importantly, non-comic book fans can enjoy them also.

However, when compared to the great team superhero comics, their stories aren't great. Why? For a few reasons.

Regardless of your reasons, what is your example of a great team superhero comic? And is it comparable Marvel Comic's 1992 Infinity War written by Jim Starlin which the movie was loosely based on?

 

[Filmfan93]

Nothing you said makes sense.

Thanos is supposed to be indestructible, as he is the big villain they've built for 6 years and took 2 Avengers films to defeat. You need to show the desperation as the heroes trying to stop him and fail on numerous occasions.

In addition, almost all of the 1v1 fights with Thanos end up with him beating the cr*p out of his opponent. These fights are meant to show exactly that the heroes can't defeat him individually (following the break-up in CW), but collectively - which they do at the Portals scene and which makes EG that impactful.

Thanos died from his own obsession - the Infinity Stones. Tony was just channeling that power. It was important that he defeated Thanos as his entire arc revolves around Thanos, the wormhole, his PTSD from alien life out there and essentially stopping Thanos. "Thanos has been inside my head for 6 years", Tony says in IW. And what a better send off for the character to have him sacrifice himself, when he really was arrogant and selfish in the beginning of his journey.

And Tony couldn't br able to do it if it wasn't for the collective effort of everyone before that - which weakened Thanos enough for Tony to distract him.

 

[shabadoo25]

Nothing you said makes sense.

Thanos is supposed to be indestructible, as he is the big villain they've built for 6 years and took 2 Avengers films to defeat. You need to show the desperation as the heroes trying to stop him and fail on numerous occasions.

In addition, almost all of the 1v1 fights with Thanos end up with him beating the cr*p out of his opponent. These fights are meant to show exactly that the heroes can't defeat him individually (following the break-up in CW), but collectively - which they do at the Portals scene and which makes EG that impactful.

Thanos died from his own obsession - the Infinity Stones. Tony was just channeling that power. It was important that he defeated Thanos as his entire arc revolves around Thanos, the wormhole, his PTSD from alien life out there and essentially stopping Thanos. "Thanos has been inside my head for 6 years", Tony says in IW. And what a better send off for the character to have him sacrifice himself, when he really was arrogant and selfish in the beginning of his journey.

And Tony couldn't br able to do it if it wasn't for the collective effort of everyone before that - which weakened Thanos enough for Tony to distract him.

You're kind of making my point for me. Why would they continue the one on one stuff when shown to be so ineffective? Why wouldn't Tony try to craft a similar attack plan on Thanos like they did in IW?

 

[shabadoo25]

Every one of your points elicits an "Uh... What?" from me.

As does the need to create this thread.

Sorry it flew over your head. Next time, move on to the next thread without commenting.

 

[Filmfan93]

You're kind of making my point for me. Why would they continue the one on one stuff when shown to be so ineffective? Why wouldn't Tony try to craft a similar attack plan on Thanos like they did in IW?

Because maybe they need to show each individual Avenger shine in 1v1 against Thanos, as people may have different favorite characters? Not everything needs to be explained or make sense - it's a CBM movie.

Tony didn't craft similar attack plan, maybe because he and everyone else were busy fighting Thanos' entire army?

 

[shabadoo25]

Because maybe they need to show each individual Avenger shine in 1v1 against Thanos, as people may have different favorite characters? Not everything needs to be explained or make sense - it's a CBM movie.

Tony didn't craft similar attack plan, maybe because he and everyone else were busy fighting Thanos' entire army?

That goes to my central tenet that what is great movie making is not necessarily great superhero writing.

Or maybe I just like watching teams act like teams more than other people. Or that villains should have vulnerabilities too.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Sorry it flew over your head. Next time, move on to the next thread without commenting.

I'm sorry you have no sense of drama, understanding of the genre, knowledge of the source material or ability to follow the story laid out in the film. And of course most of all that dreadful case of Internet Iconoclast Syndrome. There's currently no cure but we all hold out hope that one day... One day...

 

[JtheDreamer]

...they aren't good superhero stories.

They are good movies because they are well written, well acted, funny, action packed and enjoyable upon multiple viewings. Most importantly, non-comic book fans can enjoy them also.

However, when compared to the great team superhero comics, their stories aren't great. Why? For a few reasons.

1. Thanos is virtually indestructible. No villain should be able to shrug off a full power lightning, energy or mystical powers blast like it was being hit with a strong gust of wind. Even if they can, it should weaken them somewhat for the next assault.

2. Too many one-on-one attacks on Thanos by the heroes. The most effective attack on him in both of these movies was the group attack on Titan when they almost got the gauntlet off. This involved a Mantis mind whammy. The Scarlet Witch mind whammy could have really incapacitated him.

3. The best part of any Avengers/Justice League comic is when the heroes combine their strengths in a coordinated attack on a powerful foe. Continuing to go at him one on one was dumb.

4. Finally, he wasn't defeated by any power that the heroes had. He was defeated by a human wielding the Infinity Stones. Therefore, nothing the heroes had or could do took him down. He lost because of the guile and suicide move of Tony Stark, a normal human. This might be good script writing, but it's not in the best tradition of how superheroes defeat their enemies.

Most people salivated over that final massive CGI battle. But what keeps it from being a coherent climax is the Russo's failure to maximize teamwork among the heroes.

 

[Limonade]

Most people salivated over that final massive CGI battle. But what keeps it from being a coherent climax is the Russo's failure to maximize teamwork among the heroes.

It's not a coherent climax because of not having maximize teamwork?

Odd... I mean--it's literally two forces going head-to-head with each other in the climax(ie the forces of good vs the forces of evil)... it isn't a small scale coordinated battle, by any means, in which you can synergize and 1.) track where everyone is at 2.) what everyone's roll is 3.) while at the same time defending the McGuffin from the bad guy.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I saw things like Drax jumping on a bad guy's back and then Korg smashing him in the face with a mace. Iron Man got overwhelmed for a moment and then Spidey webbed the one doing that only for Giant Man to take the opportunity to squish the attacker under his boot. Spidey gets saved by Rescue and then gets a ride on a pegasus. Cap and Thor coordinate quite a few attacks throughout including a pile on atop Thanos. The much maligned in some corners A-Force moment is literally a moment showing heroes working together, from Wanda and Valkyrie's assault on some Levithans to Rescue, Shuri and Wasp blasting Thanos all at once.

And... That's just off the top of my head.

 

[JtheDreamer]

I saw things like Drax jumping on a bad guy's back and then Korg smashing him in the face with a mace. Iron Man got overwhelmed for a moment and then Spidey webbed the one doing that only for Giant Man to take the opportunity to squish the attacker under his boot. Spidey gets saved by Rescue and then gets a ride on a pegasus. Cap and Thor coordinate quite a few attacks throughout including a pile on atop Thanos. The much maligned in some corners A-Force moment is literally a moment showing heroes working together, from Wanda and Valkyrie's assault on some Levithans to Rescue, Shuri and Wasp blasting Thanos all at once.

And... That's just off the top of my head.

I'm not talking about the quick one shots that lasted mere seconds while the camera is quickly panning. Infinity War had a better example of it when BW, the Dora Milaje, and Scarlet Witch were battling Proxima Midnight. That scene was able to breathe and I didn't find myself struggling to take in a moment that quickly passed by. I couldn't even tell it was Korg taking a swing at Cull Obsidian in the beginning of the big battle until my 2nd viewing.

I'd say the Spidey/IM/Giant Man moment vs. Cull Obsidian was the closest and the climax would've been better off with more of that i.e. groups of heroes together in smaller pockets putting their powers on display. They kept breaking the action to have little moments like the one between Spidey/IM and Star Lord with Gamora.

 

[Limonade]

I'm not talking about the quick one shots that lasted mere seconds while the camera is quickly panning. Infinity War had a better example of it when BW, the Dora Milaje, and Scarlet Witch were battling Proxima Midnight. That scene was able to breathe and I didn't find myself struggling to take in a moment that quickly passed by. I couldn't even tell it was Korg taking a swing at Cull Obsidian in the beginning of the big battle until my 2nd viewing.

I'd say the Spidey/IM/Giant Man moment vs. Cull Obsidian was the closest and the climax would've been better off with more of that i.e. groups of heroes together in smaller pockets putting their powers on display. They kept breaking the action to have little moments like the one between Spidey/IM and Star Lord with Gamora.

I mean, I agree there. And if given more time for the movie, your suggestion would've added to the climax for sure. And I could see areas of the movie where certain scenes could've been trimmed in order to give the climax a better pacing.

 

[JtheDreamer]

I mean, I agree there. And if given more time for the movie, your suggestion would've added to the climax for sure. And I could see areas of the movie where certain scenes could've been trimmed in order to give the climax a better pacing.

It played like a massive sugar rush, which has become a go-to for Marvel's typical third act. Whereas, I want to sit and savor little rich bites of a decadent after-supper dessert.

 

[MahvelBaby!]

Nothings perfect :shrugs:

Still love both films.

 

[Inevitable]

IW is good, EG is a disaster and if this site was decent and everybody who says even the slightest flaw about teh mcu would not get censored i could elaborate why.

 

[Filmfan93]

IW is good, EG is a disaster and if this site was decent and everybody who says even the slightest flaw about teh mcu would not get censored i could elaborate why.

But people who don't like it ARE saying so in the threads. You just seem to be trolling so don't expect anyone theating you special around here - or at all

Edit: Aand i think he is banned

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The irony... He thinks he's "censored" for anti-Marvel views. He posts about my dead father... But doesn't realize that I'm always pointing out my issues with Marvel Films.

Then again... He was/is a pathetic child so...

 

[Filmfan93]

The irony... He thinks he's "censored" for anti-Marvel views. He posts about my dead father... But doesn't realize that I'm always pointing out my issues with Marvel Films.

Then again... He was/is a pathetic child so...

My condolences for your father..

But yeah, just ignore these trolls - i've noticed they get kicked out of here as fast as they join

 

[samsnee]

I really wish we had an unlike button for dumb threads like these.