iZombie iZombie General Discussion

I didn't claim to be better than he was, I claimed to have presented a better argument than he did.

And clearly I did, considering he did not present one. That is a consistent pattern with him. He doesn't ever present facts or evidence or a chain of reasoning. He just posts whatever he thinks and immediately dismisses anything that runs contrary to it. Whether you like my arguments or not, whether you agree with my arguments, there can be no debate that I actually MADE an argument.

If he wants to present his own argument, great. If he wants to refute any that I've made, great. But that's not what he does.

To this point, not one person in this thread has provided a single negative outcome of putting iZombie in the Arrowverse.
 
I didn't claim to be better than he was, I claimed to have presented a better argument than he did.

And clearly I did, considering he did not present one. That is a consistent pattern with him. He doesn't ever present facts or evidence or a chain of reasoning. He just posts whatever he thinks and immediately dismisses anything that runs contrary to it. Whether you like my arguments or not, whether you agree with my arguments, there can be no debate that I actually MADE an argument.

If he wants to present his own argument, great. If he wants to refute any that I've made, great. But that's not what he does.

To this point, not one person in this thread has provided a single negative outcome of putting iZombie in the Arrowverse.

Except the fact it would be severely jarring not to mention wouldn't make any sense. Yes, the comic is a DC owned property published under the Vertigo imprint but it didn't necessarily mean it HAD to be within the DC Multiverse. Would it make sense to adapt, say, 100 Bullets to have Agent Graves and Dizzy crossing paths with Amell and Gustin? I think not
 
What would be jarring about it?

They've already taken tons of liberties with the source material. I just don't see how existing in the same universe as Flash and Arrow detracts from the story in any substantial way. There's nothing about the premise of the series that would make it hard to believe it takes place in that universe, and nothing in the Arrowverse that precludes the premise of iZombie.

100 Bullets is a (comparatively) grounded series, where the characters don't deal with the undead or superpowers. And it's also entirely hypothetical as the whether or not it could exist in the Arrowverse; there isn't a 100 Bullets show about to debut. If there were a 100 Bullets show about to debut, then it would merit discussing whether to connect it to other DC shows (I would probably come down on the "no" side of that discussion, for the reasons just mentioned).

iZombie is a series about a girl who eats brains and inherits their memories, and there's nothing hypothetical about it. It's a real series that already exists, and it's coming to the same network that the Arrowverse already takes place in. It's owned by Warner, it would fit tonally (at least, from what little we've seen or read about it suggests it would), and it could definitely benefit from additional buzz.

I just don't see any potential downsides. There are no roadblocks from networks/IP holders, it's unlikely the creative teams would step on each others' toes, it wouldn't cost anything extra to establish them as being related, the new show could use the exposure, it's already on right after Flash any way, there's nothing story-wise that precludes it from happening. Even if iZombie completely fails, DC isn't any worse off than they'd be if they didn't put it in the Arrowverse. But airing right after the highest rated show in CW could really help out the show, and putting it in the same universe gives people who already watch Arrow or Flash a reason to check it out.

EDIT

Compare this scenario to that of, say, Gotham or Constantine. It makes sense for DC to keep those separate, because there are plenty of characters that could reasonably be in both universes. We already know that both Gotham and Arrow have a Dollmaker. We might expect Arrow villains like Deadshot, Deathstroke, Solomon Grundy (Cyrus Gold in the show), or Ra's Al-Ghul to show up on Gotham some day. And we could reasonably expect both Flash and Constantine to have their own Dr Fate or Swamp Thing or Zatanna. In those cases it makes sense to be separate because having them together would hamper the creativity of the showrunners.
 
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Its clear you're wet behind the ears, so I'll just take page from Kane and go for the ignore list to spare my brain cells the abuse of how unrealistic you are when it comes to how the WB operates
 
So, what exactly does this add? Since I don't see how tying this show to a really good one and one that's become bad helps this show in any way.
 
It's clear that you're taking a page from Kane, that's for sure. There's nothing confrontational or unreasonable in my post. You've just decided that you don't like it, and you can't even explain your reasons why. You say things are jarring, but not why. You say it wouldn't make sense, but not why. You say I don't understand how the WB works, but make no effort to explain how YOU think it works.

You say I'm "wet behind the ears" but at least in terms of constructing an argument that's exactly what you are.

I'll remind you that the president of the CW is the one who even brought it up, unprovoked, and put the idea into the public sphere.
 
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So, what exactly does this add? Since I don't see how tying this show to a really good one and one that's become bad helps this show in any way.
1. Those are the two highest rated shows on the network. Flash is the highest rated show in the history of the network. Those shows reach a large audience, and tying another show into them gives people who are already watching Flash a reason not to change the channel. I know the Marvel Cinematic Universe is on a different level from the Arrowverse in terms of popularity, but don't you think SHIELD and Agent Carter benefit from the association? Don't you think they're hoping the new Vixen animated series will benefit from association with the Arrowverse?

2. At some point down the line, there could be a crossover. Probably not season one, but if iZombie finds a footing there could be fun stories to be told with characters from the Arrowverse.

Again, if there were anything about the premise of the iZombie show that would be out of place or nonsensical in the Arrowverse (or vice versa), I'd say they shouldn't do it. But there isn't. There are no potential downsides, but at least a few potential upsides.

I'm not saying the above makes it LIKELY that they will crossover. I just don't see why they shouldn't do it.
 
Just because it sounds like a good idea doesn't mean you should do it.
 
Again... what makes it a bad idea?

What are the potential downsides?

I still haven't seen one person provide a detailed reason why they shouldn't do this.
 
Give me a reason for why they should do it that doesn't say "Because it will get more ratings". What purpose does the story of iZombie serve for Arrow or the Flash?
 
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It would introduce the supernatural into a universe that is primarily science fiction. Doing so would not only increase the amount of stories that can reasonably be told on The Flash and Arrow, but it would force the characters from both shows to react to and deal with people and circumstances they've never before encountered (which would lead to a lot of interesting discussions and interactions if handled properly).

If you can't see the potential, then I think you're being deliberately obtuse, and that's coming from someone who isn't fussed either way.
 
As it stands right now iZombie isn't a supernatural show, it's just a show who's main character is a Zombie. She's solving ordinary crime not supernatural crime. So her fighting a league of assassins or metahumans created by a supercollider would feel out of place since the premise is basically Veronica Mars is a Zombie.
 
As it stands right now iZombie isn't a supernatural show, it's just a show who's main character is a Zombie.

So it's a supernatural show.

She's solving ordinary crime not supernatural crime.

Which easily could (and likely will) change. Even if it doesn't, the existence of zombies is an unprecedented event that could lead to exactly what I described.

So her fighting a league of assassins or metahumans created by a supercollider would feel out of place since the premise is basically Veronica Mars is a Zombie.

Assuming that's what they'd have her doing, maybe.
 
Why is a setting this show in the same universe as Flash/Arrow a bad idea? Because it is NOT NEEDED. Zombie has plenty of its own mythology to build off of and it is just starting, to throw in superheroes is too much. Similar reasons go for Flash and Arrow too, especially Flash which is also in its infancy and still setting its foundation that doesn't need a supernatural element too, and it and Arrow both have their own even larger histories that they can work off of, to the point that Zombie is not needed.

And while some may argue "it opens it up to even more ideas" it also opens it up to even more plot holes and inconsistencies. Flash and Arrow work off a naturalistic/scientific base, and Zombie a supernatural one, and those things don't always mesh, especially in live action forms. For instance, people would end up asking "If the Star Labs crew can do all these other things, why can't they do something to cure or curb her zombiefication, thus negating her show?" or based on something that might happen on Arrow, "Why can't they use the Lazarus Pit to cure her?"

There's too much that wouldn't gel between the two groups. To go back to the old adage, just because something COULD happen, doesn't mean it SHOULD happen.
 
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Why is a setting this show in the same universe as Flash/Arrow a bad idea? Because it is NOT NEEDED. Zombie has plenty of its own mythology to build off of and it is just starting, to throw in superheroes is too much. Similar reasons go for Flash and Arrow too, especially Flash which is also in its infancy and still setting its foundation that doesn't need a supernatural element too, and it and Arrow both have their own even larger histories that they can work off of, to the point that Zombie is not needed.

And while some may argue "it opens it up to even more ideas" it also opens it up to even more plot holes and inconsistencies. Flash and Arrow work off a naturalistic/scientific base, and Zombie a supernatural one, and those things don't always mesh, especially in live action forms. For instance, people would end up asking "Why can't the Star Labs crew who can do all these other things, why can't they do something to cure or curb her zombiefication, thus negating her show?" or based on something that might happen on Arrow, "Why can't they use the Lazarus Pit to cure her?"

There's too much that wouldn't gel between the two groups. To go back to the old adage, just because something COULD happen, doesn't mean it SHOULD happen.

Bingo!
 
Not really, but it's not worth arguing about. I really doubt this show is going to crossover.
 
Not really, but it's not worth arguing about. I really doubt this show is going to crossover.

Well, the President of the CW didn't completely rule it out when he was asked this. Taken at face value, I'd argue that it just means that while there are no current plans for a crossover, they haven't completely ruled out the possibility either.

More importantly, I don't see the harm in discussing the pros and cons of such an event irrespective of the above. And like everything in life, there are benefits and negatives to linking the iZombie TV-verse to the Arrow/Flash-verse. To pretend otherwise is to be deliberately close-minded.

Arguing that linking the two isn't - strictly speaking - necessary is a meaningless statement as that's not how television (or anything in life, really) operates. Was it necessary to place the Flash and Arrow in the same universe? No, but they did it anyway. Didn't introducing the Flash and superpowers create all sorts of plothole issues for Arrow? Yes, but the vast majority of viewers overlook them as part of the suspension of disbelief as they're needed in order to make the respective shows work.

In terms of negatives, the biggest one I can think of is that it unnecessarily commits the other two shows on how the universe's afterlife and undead work (presuming iZombie will have to go into that at some point; to explain Liv's current predicament). Should either the Flash or Arrow decide to go down this route at a later stage, the creators would find that creativity a little more restricted.

However, I feel the positives far outweigh this. People have argued that the show doesn't quite fit in with Arrow and the Flash as it's got a different feel and is in an entirely different genre. However, I think this is more a positive than a negative.

For starters, this allows the characters to do, explore and develop in ways that they wouldn't normally be able to in their respective shows. Much like how Arrow allowed The Flash's characters explore the more serious aspects of their superhero activies; while the Arrow characters got to show their more light-hearted side on The Flash. Likewise, Liv's need for eating brains would likely be explored more darkly on those shows rather than a quirky habit of hers, as it appears it will be done on her show (based on the trailer).

Another is that Liv has a completely different skill set than the other two. Meaning, crossovers allow the creators to do storylines that they would otherwise be unable to do. Likewise, there's more room for synergy between Olivia and the other two superheroes. For instance, having Flash or Arrow on iZombie would let the show tackle more physical threats while having Liv on theirs would let them tackle mysteries differently.

Lastly, it paves the way for a hilarious (in my humble opinion) piece of dark humour whenever Liv's brain-eating talents get brought up. I can just picture Cisco (from The Flash) excitedly raising the possibility of getting Liv to eat Barry's mother's brains to find clues as to her killer, only for the rest of Team Flash to go "What?! Hell no!!", Caitlin to logically point out that it's been too long and Barry's mother's brain would no longer be intact, and for the rest to pretend that was what they were thinking as well (and not because it's gross).
 
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I think they need to play up the zombie angle a little more if they really want to put asses in the seats.
 
This actually seems pretty funny - in the classic Rob Thomas/Veronica Mars kind of way.
 
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Just over a month until the premiere.

I'm excited. I hope it does well for CW; they seem to be positioning it to be their midseason success.
 

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