James Bond: 007 - Spectre - - Part 11

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Either way like EON gives a **** if it has to be beholden to any continuity. It will do what they believe is best for Bond period and I doubt any more than .1% of the population will bring up "continuity issues" when a new actor is cast.

This is what I think as well. They already retroactively made Quantum and Silva part of Spectre , and they used the same actress as two different M's . They aren't the MCU which is beholden and bound together with consistent continuity. They've always been a bit looser even with the reboot, with regards to retroactively connecting all of the stories in the Craig films to Spectre.

They aren't fanboys hung up on total consistency. EON has always done and made creative choices which they felt were best for Bond at any given point in time. That's not to say if they cast a new actor they'll throw out the Craig films but they aren't going to cast an actor who's 50 for the sake of re-affirming to the GA that this is a recast of the Craig version who was approaching 50.
 
They'll keep rebooting a long as the character maintains interest.
 
James Bond is timeless. I seriously doubt that ppl will loose interest in him any time soon.....
 
IIRC SPECTRE's logo and the rings weren't in the novels.

The octopus symbolized the organization's tentacular reach into the murkiest depths of world crime. - The Secret World Of 007
 
1.) Skyfall
2.) Casino Royale
3.) SPECTRE
4.) Quantum Of Solace
 
Top 10, more or less in that order:

1. Casino Royale
2. From Russia with Love
3. Goldfinger
4. The Spy Who Loved Me
5. Spectre
6. Skyfall
7. Live and Let Die
8. You Only Live Twice
9. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
10. Goldeneye
 
I wonder if they'll ever use the Sprang brothers from Diamonds Are Forever in a future film. Sure they were extremely typical gangsters compared to the usual Bond villain fare, but I think they can be modernised. Outside of SPECTRE and SMERSH, the Spangled Mob were the other big thorn in Bond's side.
 
Fassbender doesn't need to be "10 years younger" to playvthe role, though.

I would say, respectfully, that personally, i feel he does, simply because, at 38 now, he does look older than what he is - he doesn't have a baby face, so we don't really know how he will age.

Moore and Connery as examples, the latter didn't age too kindly.

But it does look like Craig is back for one more, so in all honesty, it could be 5 years before he gets his shot, if indeed he does.

If he were Bond right now, it would be a good look and he could easily have 10 years of 3/4 movies in him, which i guess is what they would want (the studio).

So, if you compare Cavil & Fassbender, Cavil does look a younger model.

It makes me wonder why they never went with Fassbender before?? any news on that?
 
Michael Fassbender was still in his 20s when Craig was cast and hadn't even been in a feature film yet. It would have been like casting Craig fresh off Sharpe's Eagle to replace Dalton.
 
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Speaking of age it's kinda crazy to think about how Connery was only 32 when he first played Bond and Moore was 58 when he last played him. Talk about a spread in character depiction. To be fair Connery came off as more mature than most early 30's guys today.

I think from the stand-point of a new actor someone in their early 30's is probably best. Eon seems to gets angsty when their Bond actors approach 50. I believe EON really wanted to see Brosnan replaced before he hit 50.
 
I think in general, it is or was deemed that 50 is an age where you can't be an action star, but Neeson and Cruise in particular have shown that's not true.

It's funny though, as Moore is a year older than Connery, but when you stood the two together, Connery definitely aged quicker
 
Michael Fassbender was still in his 20s when Craig was cast and hadn't even been in a feature film yet. It would have been like casting Craig fresh off Sharpe's Eagle to replace Dalton.

Hmm, but that never really stopped them before - Dalton was approached in his twenties - he declined and said no to replacing Connery i think it was, Brosnan too, was approached around the Dalton era but had other commitments (remington steele i believe) and Cavil was also 2nd choice for Casino Royal.

It would have been a bold move, casting Fassbender - but as pointed out before, the actors i mentioned were not particular big draws or well known by the GA. I think they want someone to be and take on Bond rather than star power distracting.
 
Connery is a funny case he looked older when he was young but once he reached 60 it was like he never aged again?

Although I don't think Connery ever looked as rough as Moore in A View to a Kill.

moore1.jpg


Even Moore admitted he felt embarrassed as to how long he stayed in the role.
 
Finally got around to seeing Spectre and....

It was fine. It wasn't anything particularly special, like Skyfall or Casino Royale, which is unforunate because it just seems like we can't get two successive great James Bond movies in a row with Craig. I thought Sam Mendes of all people would be able to pull it off, but all the stuff that people were hinting at with the original leaked script (that I never read for fear of spoilers) probably remained given how eh I was to everything.

The campiness that people mentioned the series was bringing in didn't really seem all that campy. At least, compared to Skyfall. Some of the jokes fell a bit flat, but it didn't really take away from the film.

The opening tracking shot in Mexico was stellar. But the scene overall really lacked the intensity, urgency and 'wow' moments that the opening scene in Turkey from Skyfall had. I don't know, perhaps it was just how the shakey and distant the action in the helicopter was that really prevented me from getting amped up. Practically speaking it would be impossible to get one of those cameras up close to an actual helicopter because they're doing practical stunts there, but the compared to the closeness of the train fight Skyfall, it definitely felt lacking. Or the intimacy of the Mumbai chase from CR.

Sam Smith's theme was much better in conjuction with the opening credits, and I think they themselves might have been the best of the Craig films so far. That being said, I absolutely love how the transition for the Skyfall credits were done.

I didn't know if it was just me but the action scenes, while spectacular, felt disconnected from the overall narrative. In Skyfall and CR I think they flow much better and feel more connected thematically to the story. The enhance the overall story.

Spectre's introduction was probably handled in the best way they could given the atmosphere of the Craig films, but it felt very meh. They didn't even address Mr.Hinx by name, I suppose we're left to assume he works for Oberhauser, but it just seemed really abrupt. His nails were good but if they were going for subtle ways to make the Bond villains and henchmen unique as the older films without being over the top, then something like Le Chiffre's blood tears were much more interesting. He was relatively badass though. I think the scene where he kills the man at the Spectre meeting could've been handled better though. Didn't have the impact I was hoping for. I imagined it to be more horrific.

The relationship between Bond/Oberhauser and Bond/Madeline Swann I think weren't given the full attention they deserved and in the end, I think both relationships suffered. I think a lot of it just had to do with how lackluster the dialogue was, especially between Daniel and Lea. It pales in comparison to Vesper and Bond's exchanges. Their conversations just lacked zest. But naturally since we want everyone invested in Bond/Swann, we can't really take the time to dig up stuff that was finished (poorly) in Quantum of Solace.

I did like Waltz's delivery of 'Ernst Starvo Blofeld' though. It was much better than 'My name is Khan.' But he was painfully underused. I get that the Craig films don't want everything to be overly camp but I think we wanted someone more involved, whereas Blofeld manipulated things from a distance. The scene where he tortures Bond was another one of those things that I felt like they did well given the tone of the Craig films, but I didn't like how they nonchalantly addressed the entire motive for Blofeld doing what he does to Bond, nor do I like how Bond reacted rather passively to all that. I get that he is Bond but I couldn't figure out if they wanted to go super gritty and deep into character or stay kinda light. It seems like they just had trouble juggling it all.

M's dialogue was absolutely terrible near the end. Ralph Fiennes doesn't deserve that. I also wished Moneypenny near the finale with Bond's MI6 crew.

The third act was by far the weakest part of the film. 2 digital timers is just unnecessary and just lacked the emotional oomph that even Quantum of Solace had with Olga Kurylenko's character in that third act. Waltz's scar looked good though.

The visual callbacks to previous films were very awesome though. Loved seeing Morocco, loved the turtleneck and white tux, loved seeing a mountainside facility reminscent of OHMSS etc. But this movie, like TDKR, was just waaay too bloated. Not bad, but average. Hard to top Skyfall, but a passable and not terrible entry like QoS.
 
^^agree with all that mostly.

Just realised although we had a snowy location in Austria in this one we still haven't had Daniel Craig Bond do some sking yet
 
It's murder on his knees. He wants to be able to walk when he retires.
 
Speaking of age it's kinda crazy to think about how Connery was only 32 when he first played Bond and Moore was 58 when he last played him. Talk about a spread in character depiction. To be fair Connery came off as more mature than most early 30's guys today.

I think from the stand-point of a new actor someone in their early 30's is probably best. Eon seems to gets angsty when their Bond actors approach 50. I believe EON really wanted to see Brosnan replaced before he hit 50.

It wasn't really EON, as they tend to prefer to keep their actors on as long as they're willing. With Brosnan it was he himself who was worried about becoming another Roger Moore and playing Bond into his 50s, though he later decided he'd want to do six films "Like Connery" and then leave. But at that point, EON had the rights to Casino Royale, Die Another Day was loathed, and they just wanted to start again from scratch, so Brosnan was given the boot.
 
Regardless of whether or not Craig returns, I genuinely don't see EON rebooting the franchise again any time soon. They may try to cast younger than the age of the character just so as to give themselves some 'wiggle room', but I genuinely believe that mid-30s (35/36) is as young as they'd go without completely rebooting things again.

We'll see what happens, though.
 
Finally got around to seeing Spectre and....

It was fine. It wasn't anything particularly special, like Skyfall or Casino Royale, which is unforunate because it just seems like we can't get two successive great James Bond movies in a row with Craig. I thought Sam Mendes of all people would be able to pull it off, but all the stuff that people were hinting at with the original leaked script (that I never read for fear of spoilers) probably remained given how eh I was to everything.

The campiness that people mentioned the series was bringing in didn't really seem all that campy. At least, compared to Skyfall. Some of the jokes fell a bit flat, but it didn't really take away from the film.

The opening tracking shot in Mexico was stellar. But the scene overall really lacked the intensity, urgency and 'wow' moments that the opening scene in Turkey from Skyfall had. I don't know, perhaps it was just how the shakey and distant the action in the helicopter was that really prevented me from getting amped up. Practically speaking it would be impossible to get one of those cameras up close to an actual helicopter because they're doing practical stunts there, but the compared to the closeness of the train fight Skyfall, it definitely felt lacking. Or the intimacy of the Mumbai chase from CR.

Sam Smith's theme was much better in conjuction with the opening credits, and I think they themselves might have been the best of the Craig films so far. That being said, I absolutely love how the transition for the Skyfall credits were done.

I didn't know if it was just me but the action scenes, while spectacular, felt disconnected from the overall narrative. In Skyfall and CR I think they flow much better and feel more connected thematically to the story. The enhance the overall story.

Spectre's introduction was probably handled in the best way they could given the atmosphere of the Craig films, but it felt very meh. They didn't even address Mr.Hinx by name, I suppose we're left to assume he works for Oberhauser, but it just seemed really abrupt. His nails were good but if they were going for subtle ways to make the Bond villains and henchmen unique as the older films without being over the top, then something like Le Chiffre's blood tears were much more interesting. He was relatively badass though. I think the scene where he kills the man at the Spectre meeting could've been handled better though. Didn't have the impact I was hoping for. I imagined it to be more horrific.

The relationship between Bond/Oberhauser and Bond/Madeline Swann I think weren't given the full attention they deserved and in the end, I think both relationships suffered. I think a lot of it just had to do with how lackluster the dialogue was, especially between Daniel and Lea. It pales in comparison to Vesper and Bond's exchanges. Their conversations just lacked zest. But naturally since we want everyone invested in Bond/Swann, we can't really take the time to dig up stuff that was finished (poorly) in Quantum of Solace.

I did like Waltz's delivery of 'Ernst Starvo Blofeld' though. It was much better than 'My name is Khan.' But he was painfully underused. I get that the Craig films don't want everything to be overly camp but I think we wanted someone more involved, whereas Blofeld manipulated things from a distance. The scene where he tortures Bond was another one of those things that I felt like they did well given the tone of the Craig films, but I didn't like how they nonchalantly addressed the entire motive for Blofeld doing what he does to Bond, nor do I like how Bond reacted rather passively to all that. I get that he is Bond but I couldn't figure out if they wanted to go super gritty and deep into character or stay kinda light. It seems like they just had trouble juggling it all.

M's dialogue was absolutely terrible near the end. Ralph Fiennes doesn't deserve that. I also wished Moneypenny near the finale with Bond's MI6 crew.

The third act was by far the weakest part of the film. 2 digital timers is just unnecessary and just lacked the emotional oomph that even Quantum of Solace had with Olga Kurylenko's character in that third act. Waltz's scar looked good though.

The visual callbacks to previous films were very awesome though. Loved seeing Morocco, loved the turtleneck and white tux, loved seeing a mountainside facility reminscent of OHMSS etc. But this movie, like TDKR, was just waaay too bloated. Not bad, but average. Hard to top Skyfall, but a passable and not terrible entry like QoS.

There are only one time I have loved successive Bond movies;

The Living Dayights - Licence to Kill

Goldfinger
You Only Live Twice
Live and Let Die
The Spy who Love Me
Goldeneye
Casino Royale
Skyfall

were all followed up with movies I enjoyed considerably less.
 
One thing they have really been inconsistent on for the last couple of decades is the title song. They alternate between good and bad with every film.

Goldeneye - Good
Tomorrow Never Dies - Bad, and I'm not sure what they were thinking when they went with it over the much better 'Surrender' that plays over the closing credits.
The World is Not Enough - Good
Die Another Day - Bad
You Know My Name - Good
Another Way to Die - Bad
Skyfall - Good
Writing on the Wall - Bad
 
One thing they have really been inconsistent on for the last couple of decades is the title song. They alternate between good and bad with every film.

Goldeneye - Good
Tomorrow Never Dies - Bad, and I'm not sure what they were thinking when they went with it over the much better 'Surrender' that plays over the closing credits.
The World is Not Enough - Good
Die Another Day - Bad
You Know My Name - Good
Another Way to Die - Bad
Skyfall - Good
Writing on the Wall - Bad

Yeah; true.

I've said it before, Roger Moore has the greatest number of good songs amongst all the Bonds; the only ones i don't like from his Era were Moonraker and Octopussy.
 
How you can take a look at the specific examples I listed earlier and define them as "loose" is beyond me, and begs the question of what you would consider "tight" continuity.

Easy.

"Loose" continuity is spread out throughout the first 20 Bond films. The closest we see of "tight" continuity would be in the Connery films (where there was an established arc with SPECTRE and interconnection) before Diamonds are Forever s***s all over it. But the hallmark of "tight" continuity in the films are Craig's films. They are all connected. Quantum of Solace picks up minutes after Casino Royale. Spectre connects and wraps up the previous three films. Skyfall, though a standalone story before Spectre retconned it, even has strong continuity.

All Bond films from Diamonds are Forever to Die Another Day are sequels. It is the same guy portrayed by different actors. You don't have to be a genius to figure it out. But continuity hasn't strong. There's a nod here or there. Yeah, we see Moore's Bond visit Tracy's grave in a pre-title sequence. But other than that, it's all "loose."

Look at it this way. If a person who never watched a Bond film watched Quantum of Solace or Spectre, how many things would they miss? A bunch. You can't really say that about any of the other Bond films. Like I said earlier, Diamonds are Forever takes a s*** on On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
 
Exactly, this is Craig's narrative. When he goes, it would feel weird to me, to try and carry on that universe. Hence, i'd prefer a full on reboot with recasting throughout.

Yeah, it's going to be jarring initially. To see the same M, Q, Moneypenny, and Tanner with a new Bond will bug the hell out of me for the first 30 minutes.
 
They might not even continue.

M, Q, and Moneypenny are Bond staples (though Q and Moneypenny haven't been in every movie), but if they reboot and cease Craig's narrative, Tanner probably won't even exist, and there's no guarantee M, Q, and Moneypenny will still be played by Fiennes, Whishaw, and Harris.

If it was a different Bond and the whole Craig-era MI6 crew still around him, though, it would be strange.
 
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