Jean & Storm: Were The Roles Reversed?

[Lightning Strykez!]

Jean & Storm
Were The Roles Reversed? ​

A1ant said something in another thread that I thought was rather profound. Therefore, I felt it was appropriate to create a spin-off discussion focusing on it:

Famke was great in X1/X2, and while I liked her in X3 I didn't feel the same 'umph' from her. She was more of a special effect in that film. If she was given more personal scenes, minus the effects, I think my opinions would change. That deleted scene of her sensing the scared girl was great...they should've kept that in!

I have to agree with this to an extent. Although I loved Famke Janssen's turn with the character, in X3, the Phoenix--for all intents and purposes--was little more than a plot device. She basically just stared, turned ugly, destroyed everything for no reason and then died. Considering that this was an attempt at the Phoenix Saga, Jean said a rather startling very, very little amount, especially compared to her involvement in the prior films. They essentially made her a one-dimmensional murdering monster.

As fans we were robbed of understanding how and why Jean killed off both her lover and mentor. There was no emotional tugging between her and her family--the X-Men--at Alcatraz. In fact, she and her fellow senior comrade Storm never spoke even once in this entire film. We were given no insight as to whether or not she was even affected emotionally by her decisions--especially over the murdering of Charles. In fact, after that scene, we see precious little of the character sans destruction effects, and any frames she is in, she's silent like a church mouse. What was wrong with her? And why the disconnect?

In contrast, recall how Storm was treated in X1 and X2. She too had very little to say, and was primarily used for the money shots and major special effects sequences. Aside from that, the character was utterly wasted.

In X3, the roles of these characters are completely reversed: Like Storm of old, now Jean is a SFX plot device in a film focused on her greatest story. In my opinion, this is a clear example of "too little, too late" with both women. Storm needed development, but so did Jean--and there are a million ways the script could've handled these needs seamlessly.

The whole thing is backwards...and just shows to me how Hollywood (studios, writers and Directors) really takes liberties in the name of pleasing summer audiences to get that bottom line $$$, while simitaneously wounding these characters in the process. I would rather have seen X3 ressurrect Jean from Alkali Lake in it's 3rd act (for a full Phoenix storyline in X4--with all pertinent players like Scott back in the mix), than bring her back and set her on a shelf.

Questions For Discussion:

1.) Do you agree with the above assessment?

2.) Do you believe the two characters could have BOTH been given justice in X3?​

 

[britrogue]

I still didn't think Storm had anything useful to say in the 3rd film.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I still didn't think Storm had anything useful to say in the 3rd film.

I agree with you. She had more volume of statements, but the value of them was somewhat lost. Sometimes she just said stuff for no reason.

For example, when she and Logan land at Alkali Lake, she says "You don't...wanna be here." WTF is that about? That whole line just reeks of "it's been 5 minutes since Storm/Halle spoke, give her something--anything!"

It just didn't make any sense.

But the same can be said for Jean. 99% of her lines were completely antagonistic. Where was the compassionate, sensitive woman we knew in X1 and X2? Did she not even care about her X-Men family? I realize the need to make her into a villain, but she was once an X-Man...and I didn't recognize that bond anywhere with Jean in X3.

Xavier mentioned that Jean had dual personality problems, but to be frank, I only saw one dominant personality in X3--a hateful, spiteful creature. We didn't see the "other" Jean Grey surface until seconds before her death in Act III.

 

[AznBABYBANDIT]

yes, switched roles!

 

[bosef982]

Ugh. didn't belong here.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

After watching all 3 films, i love X1 Storm. She had little to say, but was serious, contained and had a strong presence wherever she was. Her lines are meaningful for the most part (forget the toad). If only she had a better wig...but i think X1 Storm was the closest we got to real Storm.

As for Jean, i lovee her in X2. Thats it. X1 is meh, X3 is "i wanna kill those executives for commiting such a sacrilege to the Phoenix Saga".

 

[TrailerCues]

Is there any part of this movie that has not been discussed yet Maybe I should pull a "StarWarsAgent" & make a thread asking if Scott got to smell Jeans hair before she killed him t:

 

[PowersOfMind]

I liked the film well enough for what it was but I do think that yes their roles were switched. I also believe it was possible to give both characters justice. I think both Famke and Halle did pheonominal jobs with what they were given. With Jean, the only time I noticed the inner turmoil was when she was talking with Xavier and Magneto. I could see how she knew she needed his help yet there is something else inside her head screaming that all he wants to do is control her.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

With Jean, the only time I noticed the inner turmoil was when she was talking with Xavier and Magneto. I could see how she knew she needed his help yet there is something else inside her head screaming that all he wants to do is control her.

Good point.

Perhaps if the film had been--oh, I don't know--LONGER, we could have seen that fleshed out more.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

-bangs his head- damn damn damn! singer shouldn't have left.

 

[PowersOfMind]

Good point.

Perhaps if the film had been--oh, I don't know--LONGER, we could have seen that fleshed out more.

Yeah it should have been longer. X3 should have had the longest running time of the X-men movies. Yet, I still think the Ratner and the writers did what they could with the given circumstances.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

-bangs his head- damn damn damn! singer shouldn't have left.

For the sake of Storm, yes he should have.

But I will admit that I would've preferred whatever direction he'd have taken with Jean and Scott. My instincts tell me that Singer's warmer, more romanticized/compassionate approach would have done WONDERS for a modern-day Romeo/Juliet take on the reborn Phoenix saga. Much better than the "Omigod, she's checked out" treatment we got.

It's like we as fans can't have it all...it has to be one extreme or another.

 

[The Weather God]

For the sake of Storm, yes he should have.

But I will admit that I would've preferred whatever direction he'd have taken with Jean and Scott. My instincts tell me that Singer's warmer, more romanticized/compassionate approach would have done WONDERS for a modern-day Romeo/Juliet take on the reborn Phoenix saga. Much better than the "Omigod, she's checked out" treatment we got.

It's like we as fans can't have it all...it has to be one extreme or another.

I agree and it does seem as though they're roles were reverse. Both character's could have been given more justice because i felt a lack of emotion on jean's side and it never seemed like jean could ever get back in control of herself. it was more like the phoenix came back and had complete control over jean. The deleted voices would have helped my judgement. Storm could have had better and a little more power scenes, but the ones that were in were very good. I only wish the cloud burst scene were still in.

 

[JP]

Not so much a role reversal, as Storm was just about the same. But I do agree about Jean. In fact it was both Jean and Storm who provided all the "money shots". All the while Wolverine was developing as a character and saving the day.

Singer focused on Wolverine, yes, but he understood that women too can be something other than "sexy super heroes and vixens"- which was all the woman of X3 were.

 

[littyx]

I don't mean any disrespect, but I think this thread is bizarre and not needed. The role of Jean Grey and Phoenix was portrayed greatly. The best emotional scene was of Jean/Phoenix talking to Logan in the mansion. She goes from seductive, to evil, to scared all in a matter of minutes.

Yes, we don't get into all of the personal relationships in Jean's life, but this is a 1 hour and 45 min. movie. And it was not needed to make an emotional impact on the audience.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I don't mean any disrespect, but I think this thread is bizarre and not needed. The role of Jean Grey and Phoenix was portrayed greatly. The best emotional scene was of Jean/Phoenix talking to Logan in the mansion. She goes from seductive, to evil, to scared all in a matter of minutes.

Yes, we don't get into all of the personal relationships in Jean's life, but this is a 1 hour and 45 min. movie. And it was not needed to make an emotional impact on the audience.

Are you sure you're not missing the point of the thread? The issue is that in a film that should have been all about her, Jean took a back seat and became a SFX plot device--just like Storm was in X1 and X2. The breadth and depth of her development in X3 was very similar to Storm's in films past. In fact, they could've spliced the entire Jean problem altogether and it wouldn't have hurt the film at all, since it was primarily fueled by the Cure controversy anyway.

The Dark Phoenix saga was basically a secondary plotline--when it should've been the first. I feel they threw Jean in there for two reasons:

1.) Because X2 hinted at it (they were forced to follow through)
2.) For special effects and money shots

My point is that Storm played a similiar role in X1 and X2, and now she's been so-called "fleshed-out" but at the expense of Jean. And it's still empty! The priorities have been screwed up all along.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Makes me want Singer to do his version still... -sighs- someone call him!

 

[WorthyStevens]

Not so much a role reversal, as Storm was just about the same. But I do agree about Jean. In fact it was both Jean and Storm who provided all the "money shots". All the while Wolverine was developing as a character and saving the day.

Singer focused on Wolverine, yes, but he understood that women too can be something other than "sexy super heroes and vixens"- which was all the woman of X3 were.

Add Angel to that statement and I completely agree.

But, had the deleted scenes involving Jean been included - such as the psychic voice battle between her and Xavier (but a finished version) and the Jean sensing the scared little girl - Jean would've had a better treatment IMO.

Had Ratner not been hired - and been given additional/different writers - we would've had a longer movie and more development for both Jean and Storm. And thus a better product.

 

[Decay]

The truth is that in X-men 3 Jean Grey is a completely different character. She's not the kind and loving character we've met in X-men 1 and X-men 2. Maybe that was a mistake. Even if I find Phoenix an amazing character the old Jean Grey should've had more screen time except for some terrible moments when she was begging Wolverine to kill her. I would have wanted an inner fight between Jean and Phoenix, but there was no such thing. Phoenix just took the lead over her.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Had Ratner not been hired - and been given additional/different writers - we would've had a longer movie and more development for both Jean and Storm. And thus a better product.

you mean a totally different film i'd like a new version of X3, with everything fixed...

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

^^ Me too... bub. If they can just shoot additional scenes and stick them into the X3 we have...then great. but again, Fox wouldn't let that happen. -sighs-

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

This is one of those things I mean when I say that Jean could have used more development.

I mean, as I've stated, I believe the explanation and motivation is there, and it works... but there's not enough of it.

I forget who it was, but somebody stated in another thread "show us, don't tell us". That's what Singer would have done.

With Ratner and his team, we got "I created a series of psychic blocks, and as a result, created a dual personality"

Okay, that's cool. I'm on board with you.

But save for 2 scenes, we don't see that struggle with her dual personality. We see her off Cyclops like nothing (I can buy that her use of powers awoke the dormant Phoenix persona, now that the blocks were gone, and her mind was fragile from the events of X2, but we see that Phoenix only truly becomes hostile when threatened... where was the motivation to off Cyclops?)

We see her struggle with her alter personality in the scene with Wolverine. That scene is actually a really good scene to "show" us, not tell us. But until Wolverine marches up to her on Alcatraz, and finally kills her, we don't see anymore of that struggle.

I suppose the scene at her house, with the psi battle versus Xavier gives us a bit of insight. So make that 3 scenes instead of 2.

But there should have been more "showing" of her struggle. There should have been a bit more conflict with Storm. After all, with Cyclops and Xavier dead, Jean is the only remaining member of Storm's family. The fact that she just gave up on Jean because Jean "made her choice" is totally out of character. I guess Storm's line to Nightcrawler about "sometimes anger can help you survive" really was true, because there was no compassion what so ever from Storm for Jean... only anger.

You're right... with her face to face with her X-Men family on Alcatraz, there should have been more of a sense of struggle with Jean. THAT should have been why she was put on the backburner in the final battle... because seeing her family there, fighting, in danger, for her, would give her that inner struggle between Phoenix and Jean, until the soldiers march across the bridge and fire the cure darts at her, unleashing the Phoenix persona.

Again, the explanation is there, and it works, I buy it. But there needed to be a bit more to drive that point home.

It's easy for someone like me. I know these characters and their stories outside of the movies, so I just connect the dots in my head. But for a movie, I shouldn't have to rely on outside knowledge. It should be dealt with in the movie.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Had Ratner not been hired - and been given additional/different writers - we would've had a longer movie and more development for both Jean and Storm. And thus a better product.

You sure about that? I'm not.

 

[MaleRogue]

Well my opinion is that Storm had a lot of screentime but her lines were rubbish...
So not nesecary..
Jean had to have the good lines and she had some to,
The deleted scene of her with the scared girl was great and also the one she isn't going into battle with Magneto.
I had the feeling she didn't want to hurt her friends.,
That Jean was fighting Phoenix and that Jean wanted to be herself again

 

[tonytr1687]

Not so much a role reversal, as Storm was just about the same. But I do agree about Jean. In fact it was both Jean and Storm who provided all the "money shots". All the while Wolverine was developing as a character and saving the day.

Singer focused on Wolverine, yes, but he understood that women too can be something other than "sexy super heroes and vixens"- which was all the woman of X3 were.

Thank Ratner for that. Supposedly he doesnt think highly of women outside of being sex symbols.