JLA vs avengers

if u really want to get crazy, or "nuts" as michael keaton would put it, what would happen if guy 2 could strike with all his moon pushing might a seemingly infintate amount of times before guy could blink?

I'm an artist, u do the math for me
 
ibsisomis said:
This is crazy! So let me ask you this? Can you catch a sledgehammer aimmed at your head by an equal (strength) enemy? Let me answer this for you NO! If you can you need to be in the UFC because you are the baddest MF on the planet! Even if you get your hand up to block it it will crush, mangle or break every bone in your hand. Mystery's right you superman fanboy's are insane! This is nothing but blatant fanboyism. Forget the "Diana's wepons have points and sharpy edges." WTF! That doesn't matter the difference is her wepons cut and slash and Thor's crush and break! I don't think I have ever heard a more ignorant rant on here EVER! I have seen some fanboy's on here (Hulk's, Wolverine's and Thor's) but I have never seen the likes of this before. You people remind me of these renecks that live in my state that don't believe or understand the basic principal of drag racing and by doing which never have or never will buy an imported car! Just let me explain this to you like I did some of these "people" here. Basic breakdowns of a fight. Since you superman fanboys say that he is as vulnerable to magic as "we" are then let me see. You have 2 guys one has a sledgehamme the other one is barehanded. Both guys have equal strength, guy one swings the hammer with all his might at guy 2's head. What happens you do the math!

Whoa whoa there cowboy. You do not want to be starting an argument. Friendly warning. Unless of course you're going to be bringing better reasoning to the table. Then by all means, go ahead and start one. I haven't had a good argument in months.
 
in superman/batman
the pair has taken on th equivalent to the Avengers...thor included, and won i believe.

You're not talking about that reeeal old comic with the fake avengers and Spiderman are you? Because they were regular people in costumes, possessed or something.

But what's this about Supes being able to pick up Thor's hammer? He did it once because Odin deemed the situation (fate of two universes) called for it . . or something like that, as Thor explains to him. Superman later tries to pick up the hammer (after the battle) and cannot. Generally speaking, he can't pick it up. He's got as much of a shot as Aunt May does.
 
Badfish40oz said:
You're not talking about that reeeal old comic with the fake avengers and Spiderman are you? Because they were regular people in costumes, possessed or something.

But what's this about Supes being able to pick up Thor's hammer? He did it once because Odin deemed the situation (fate of two universes) called for it . . or something like that, as Thor explains to him. Superman later tries to pick up the hammer (after the battle) and cannot. Generally speaking, he can't pick it up. He's got as much of a shot as Aunt May does.

naw...I'm referring to the sh1tty jeph loeb one, current ongoing, this year i beleive
 
Docker said:
I agree that if anyone is worthy to lift Mjolnir its Superman. I just didn't understand why he wasn't able to lift it. That goes to show you it was basically bad writing. If he couldn't budge it due to its magical properties, it should also be able to kill him if necessary. Even though I think Thor will defeat Supes is a tie 5 out of 10 fights, you want ever see Thor defeat him. You want ever see Supes lose to a Marvel character. The one character who would've probably destroyed him, the Silver Surfer, didn't even through a punch against each other in their comic.

I would say that Superman lacked certain qualities. It had to be those worthy to lift Mjolnir, based on what the Norse gods felt was worthy. Not what WE feel as worthy.
 
Mistress Gluon said:
Whoa whoa there cowboy. You do not want to be starting an argument. Friendly warning. Unless of course you're going to be bringing better reasoning to the table. Then by all means, go ahead and start one. I haven't had a good argument in months.

and i thought i was the only one itching for confrontation:oldrazz:
 
I actually seem to have some sort of preconception around folks that I start and join gross amounts of arguments.

But I really only enjoy good, thoughtful arguements. Not biased, half informed ones.
 
Mistress Gluon said:
I would say that Superman lacked certain qualities. It had to be those worthy to lift Mjolnir, based on what the Norse gods felt was worthy. Not what WE feel as worthy.
That's it?! Geez man! Ever since you went through your "crisis" you are not the same! Ha! Post crisis Mistress is not as powerful in debating like she use to. :(
Anyway, Supes is the boy scout, he should have been able to lift Mjolnir. :o And you'll never be able to convince me otherwise! :mad:
 
wonderwoman seems more worthy than superman imo, than again, these are norse, and she is a woman

no idea what i'm talking about btw
 
WW doesn't seem all that worthy to me. She seems angry and quick tempered but I'm not the biggest WW fan so maybe I'm wrong. She's overrated anyway. :o
 
You guys are immpossible!:whatever: Okay yeah I like to fight it's one of the better things that I can do very well. Let's GO! I mean what the hell do you expect me to say to that? I mean for a second let's keep this an intelligent argument. Forget for a moment that we are talking about Supes Vs. Thor. Let's look at this as if it's Tom Cruise Vs. Tom Cruise. Only One has a sledgehammer and the other one doesn't. And forget that smartarse crap like "well what would happen if guy 2 could strike with all his moon pushing might a seemingly infintate amount of times before guy could blink?" what the hell is that? Last time I checked they both had superspeed. We are talking about 2 evenly matched people here. They both have about the same amount of strength and they both are almost equally as invulnerable. You "people" are the ones that say that "superman is just as vulnerable to amgic as the average person." I never said that you did. This is why I almost hate superman because of fanboy's like the majority of you. You almost remind me of the guy from Alias in Clerks 2, the way he reacts to Lord of the Rings. You know what Mystery you are right these people are hopeless!
 
Mistress Gluon said:
I actually seem to have some sort of preconception around folks that I start and join gross amounts of arguments.

Is this directed at me?
 
marvin, I would cool it if I was you and ibsisomis too
 
.....I have deleted this post myself. I feel too angry to post so I will NOT.
 
inlight of these new revalations, i take it back then.

lesson still stands, hopefully next time u'll pass on deeming your opinion as the only way of thinking and that everyone is...what every u called us..

instead i'll just chalk it up to u being a marvel fanboy.
 
A little late on this point, but let me answer a few points a few pages back...specifically, regarding Wonder Woman's sword.

Wonder Woman's sword was forged by the smith-god Hephaestus. It was designed and enchanted specifically to be able to cut through anything, including shaving the electrons off of an atom. That's the enchantment. That's its "magic." When Hephaestus went about forging it, he specifically said, "I want this blade to be able to cut through anything. And since I'm amongst the most badass smith-gods in all mythology, if I want it to happen then it's gonna happen." Therefore, the blade is capable of slicing through anything. That's straight from the official DCU guide to Wonder Woman, out now in stores everywhere!...or something.

All magical items have certain limitations just as they have certain enchantments; this is pretty simple logic. If you specifically design an object to do certain things, you can't be surprised if it can't do other things. A remote control cannot be expected to play your CDs. Hermes' sandals can make you fly fast and warp, but it can't make you breathe water. So just as there are things that Wonder Woman's sword absolutely can do, there are also many things that it absolutely can not do.

For example! It is not unbreakable. Many of Wonder Woman's weapons, including that sword, have been broken either by other villains or by herself. The latest example would be when she threw the sword on the ground in the last issue of Infinite Crisis, and it shattered into two. The sword can cut through anything, but it itself is not invulnerable unlike, say, Diana's bracelets or lasso. Now in terms of physics, if something were capable of cutting through anything at all without a lot of force, you'd logically assume that it might be able to withstand some pretty hefty damage, too; only diamond can cut through diamond, after all, unless you're applying a ridiculous amount of strength. But this is not physics, this is magic! And not only does magic always come with a price, it also doesn't need to follow normal physical rules.

Another example! Anyone can use it. The sword is not specifically bound to Diana herself, nor does it have any enchantments prohibiting certain people from using it. Anyone could pick it up and start hacking and it would perform its enchantment -- cutting through anything -- just the same.

Now I bet you're wondering what the point of all this is. Well, let's compare her sword to Mjolnir. Mjolnir also has several enchantments placed on it, far more than WW's sword, in fact. It is, after all, the mythological weapon of a god, fit for a god.

One of the more famed of the hammer's abilities is that if you throw it, it will return to the exact spot from which it was thrown. Unless, for some reason, you grip onto the handle as you throw, in which case you will fly right along with the hammer as far as you threw it. Again: magic, not physics.

It is capable of manipulating the weather. Now, this might just be a channeling of Thor's innate nature as the god of thunder, similar to how the golden lasso channel's Wonder Woman's innate nature as the spirit of truth. But Wonder Woman can't force people to tell the truth without the lasso, and Thor can't fire lightning without the hammer. So, for all intents and purposes, anyone who is deemed worthy enough to wield Mjolnir can use it to manipulate the weather.

It is capable of manipulating other magical forces, such as the godblast, and redirecting energy of all types. This further goes to show why I think Captain Marvel would be screwed against Thor, since the lightning that powers him is just another type of energy that Thor could strip away.

It allows its wielder to create interdimensional portals.

As a religious relic, it is lethal to undead.

Last but not least, it grants the wielder increased strength and durability, usually on par with general Asgardian physiology.

Did I miss anything?

Now, for things that it cannot do: It is virtually indestructible, but not literally so. It has been damaged several times throughout canon.

One of the most well-known limitations is that only the worthy -- as ascertained by Marvel universe Asgardian standards -- can pick it up and wield it. This is absolute. The Hulk wouldn't be able to pick it up. If you view both Marvel vs DC and JLA/Avengers as canon -- which I personally don't, though your mileage may vary -- Wonder Woman can pick it up whereas Superman can't, unless it were in a very specific, dire situation and Odin's enchantment specifically recognized that situation. This might be because WW's attitude is closer to the Asgardians', in that it is sometimes justifiable to kill your enemies if there is no other choice, whereas Superman thinks it is completely unjustifiable at any time. This is correlatable with another person who has picked up the hammer before, Captain America, who has also killed people in times of war, but is in most other respects a lot like Superman.

And then we come to the real point of this rant, as it pertains to the topic at hand: Mjolnir cannot destroy everything. It cannot destroy everything. This is key. Unlike Wonder Woman's sword, Mjolnir does not have an enchantment on it specifically so that it would smash through everything that it hits. Throughout the course of the comics, there have been things and beings that have withstood being hit by Thor's hammer, if only barely. That would not be true if Mjolnir was specifically enchanted to damage everything it hits.

So if blows from Mjolnir are not specifically enchanted to do anything other than be blows, what does that mean? It means that being hit by Mjolnir is being hit by impact. The degree of the impact may be more severe, but pragmatically it is exactly the same as being hit by Thor's fists, or by Wonder Woman's fists, or by Captain Marvel's fists; the fists may be powered by magic, but the impact is not. Impact is a completely logical, physical, scientific phenomenon. There is nothing mystical or science-bending about it. Mjolnir glows with normal, natural, unenchanted lightning; it may glow with mystic energy at certain times, mostly for visual effect, but this energy is largely harmless and has no known offensive capability. "Glowing magic thing" is not grounds for being able to harm Superman, or anyone else for that matter. The Eye of Agamotto glows, but if you wack someone over the head with it, it's just going to feel like you wacked someone over the head with a medium-sized amulet.

Mjolnir hits you. It impacts you. There is absolutely no enchantment upon the hammer that says otherwise. The hammer is a magic hammer, but the impact it creates is devoid of enchantment, dependant solely on its own durability and Thor's magically-enhanced strength to deliver its physical power...again, unlike Wonder Woman's sword, whose slashes and thrusts are magically compelled to cut things. Wonder Woman could swing it or Spider-Ham could swing it, and it'd cut Superman just the same unless he got the hell out of the way.

Are you all beginning to understand why people think Thor's hammer hitting Superman isn't the same thing as Wonder Woman's sword slicing him, or Captain Marvel's lightning zapping him? Wonder Woman's sword is enchanted to slice people. The lightning of Shazam is raw mystic energy that zaps people exactly like lightning does, but with raw mystic energy. Thor's hammer is impact, albeit impact from strength and durability that is augmented by magic. And if impact from magically augmented strength was all it took to harm Superman, he should have bloody gaping holes in his body every time Wonder Woman even remotely attacks him. Which is more often than you'd think.

That is not assurance that Superman will win Thor; they are still closely-matched enough in strength that there's never quite any assurance one way or the other, and there is still the god-blast of course, and there are probably other things that Thor as a god could do which I'm forgetting at the moment that could mystically affect Superman. But unless you can come up with any instances of Mjolnir itself being able to affect things on an offensive mystical level, "Thor hitting Superman with his magic hammer" is not nearly grounds enough to call for his victory. And I might be wrong; there might indeed be instances such as this. But none that I'm aware of.
 
BrianWilly said:
A little late on this point, but let me answer a few points a few pages back...specifically, regarding Wonder Woman's sword.

Wonder Woman's sword was forged by the smith-god Hephaestus. It was designed and enchanted specifically to be able to cut through anything, including shaving the electrons off of an atom. That's the enchantment. That's its "magic." When Hephaestus went about forging it, he specifically said, "I want this blade to be able to cut through anything. And since I'm amongst the most badass smith-gods in all mythology, if I want it to happen then it's gonna happen." Therefore, the blade is capable of slicing through anything. That's straight from the official DCU guide to Wonder Woman, out now in stores everywhere!...or something.

All magical items have certain limitations just as they have certain enchantments; this is pretty simple logic. If you specifically design an object to do certain things, you can't be surprised if it can't do other things. A remote control cannot be expected to play your CDs. Hermes' sandals can make you fly fast and warp, but it can't make you breathe water. So just as there are things that Wonder Woman's sword absolutely can do, there are also many things that it absolutely can not do.

For example! It is not unbreakable. Many of Wonder Woman's weapons, including that sword, have been broken either by other villains or by herself. The latest example would be when she threw the sword on the ground in the last issue of Infinite Crisis, and it shattered into two. The sword can cut through anything, but it itself is not invulnerable unlike, say, Diana's bracelets or lasso. Now in terms of physics, if something were capable of cutting through anything at all without a lot of force, you'd logically assume that it might be able to withstand some pretty hefty damage, too; only diamond can cut through diamond, after all, unless you're applying a ridiculous amount of strength. But this is not physics, this is magic! And not only does magic always come with a price, it also doesn't need to follow normal physical rules.

Another example! Anyone can use it. The sword is not specifically bound to Diana herself, nor does it have any enchantments prohibiting certain people from using it. Anyone could pick it up and start hacking and it would perform its enchantment -- cutting through anything -- just the same.

Now I bet you're wondering what the point of all this is. Well, let's compare her sword to Mjolnir. Mjolnir also has several enchantments placed on it, far more than WW's sword, in fact. It is, after all, the mythological weapon of a god, fit for a god.

One of the more famed of the hammer's abilities is that if you throw it, it will return to the exact spot from which it was thrown. Unless, for some reason, you grip onto the handle as you throw, in which case you will fly right along with the hammer as far as you threw it. Again: magic, not physics.

It is capable of manipulating the weather. Now, this might just be a channeling of Thor's innate nature as the god of thunder, similar to how the golden lasso channel's Wonder Woman's innate nature as the spirit of truth. But Wonder Woman can't force people to tell the truth without the lasso, and Thor can't fire lightning without the hammer. So, for all intents and purposes, anyone who is deemed worthy enough to wield Mjolnir can use it to manipulate the weather.

It is capable of manipulating other magical forces, such as the godblast, and redirecting energy of all types. This further goes to show why I think Captain Marvel would be screwed against Thor, since the lightning that powers him is just another type of energy that Thor could strip away.

It allows its wielder to create interdimensional portals.

As a religious relic, it is lethal to undead.

Last but not least, it grants the wielder increased strength and durability, usually on par with general Asgardian physiology.

Did I miss anything?

Now, for things that it cannot do: It is virtually indestructible, but not literally so. It has been damaged several times throughout canon.

One of the most well-known limitations is that only the worthy -- as ascertained by Marvel universe Asgardian standards -- can pick it up and wield it. This is absolute. The Hulk wouldn't be able to pick it up. If you view both Marvel vs DC and JLA/Avengers as canon -- which I personally don't, though your mileage may vary -- Wonder Woman can pick it up whereas Superman can't, unless it were in a very specific, dire situation and Odin's enchantment specifically recognized that situation. This might be because WW's attitude is closer to the Asgardians', in that it is sometimes justifiable to kill your enemies if there is no other choice, whereas Superman thinks it is completely unjustifiable at any time. This is correlatable with another person who has picked up the hammer before, Captain America, who has also killed people in times of war, but is in most other respects a lot like Superman.

And then we come to the real point of this rant, as it pertains to the topic at hand: Mjolnir cannot destroy everything. It cannot destroy everything. This is key. Unlike Wonder Woman's sword, Mjolnir does not have an enchantment on it specifically so that it would smash through everything that it hits. Throughout the course of the comics, there have been things and beings that have withstood being hit by Thor's hammer, if only barely. That would not be true if Mjolnir was specifically enchanted to damage everything it hits.

So if blows from Mjolnir are not specifically enchanted to do anything other than be blows, what does that mean? It means that being hit by Mjolnir is being hit by impact. The degree of the impact may be more severe, but pragmatically it is exactly the same as being hit by Thor's fists, or by Wonder Woman's fists, or by Captain Marvel's fists; the fists may be powered by magic, but the impact is not. Impact is a completely logical, physical, scientific phenomenon. There is nothing mystical or science-bending about it. Mjolnir glows with normal, natural, unenchanted lightning; it may glow with mystic energy at certain times, mostly for visual effect, but this energy is largely harmless and has no known offensive capability. "Glowing magic thing" is not grounds for being able to harm Superman, or anyone else for that matter. The Eye of Agamotto glows, but if you wack someone over the head with it, it's just going to feel like you wacked someone over the head with a medium-sized amulet.

Mjolnir hits you. It impacts you. There is absolutely no enchantment upon the hammer that says otherwise. The hammer is a magic hammer, but the impact it creates is devoid of enchantment, dependant solely on its own durability and Thor's magically-enhanced strength to deliver its physical power...again, unlike Wonder Woman's sword, whose slashes and thrusts are magically compelled to cut things. Wonder Woman could swing it or Spider-Ham could swing it, and it'd cut Superman just the same unless he got the hell out of the way.

Are you all beginning to understand why people think Thor's hammer hitting Superman isn't the same thing as Wonder Woman's sword slicing him, or Captain Marvel's lightning zapping him? Wonder Woman's sword is enchanted to slice people. The lightning of Shazam is raw mystic energy that zaps people exactly like lightning does, but with raw mystic energy. Thor's hammer is impact, albeit impact from strength and durability that is augmented by magic. And if impact from magically augmented strength was all it took to harm Superman, he should have bloody gaping holes in his body every time Wonder Woman even remotely attacks him. Which is more often than you'd think.

That is not assurance that Superman will win Thor; they are still closely-matched enough in strength that there's never quite any assurance one way or the other, and there is still the god-blast of course, and there are probably other things that Thor as a god could do which I'm forgetting at the moment that could mystically affect Superman. But unless you can come up with any instances of Mjolnir itself being able to affect things on an offensive mystical level, "Thor hitting Superman with his magic hammer" is not nearly grounds enough to call for his victory. And I might be wrong; there might indeed be instances such as this. But none that I'm aware of.


Well I give you thesis an A+:woot:
 
Brian very good assesment. But I hope people didn't think that by Thor hitting supes one time would make this fight oven with one blow because I wasn't implying that at all. I was saying that there is NO WAY he (supes) could have stopped Thor's swing with the hammer by ctaching it with his hand. That's all I was saying. I still think that Thor would beat him, but by no reason at all do I think the fight would be over in one blow!
I am as much a Marvel fan as much as anyone else is a DC fan. I don't like superman because of the way he is written. I do feel that no matter what they don't allow him to lose enough to make him a little bit more tolerable, he is already a boring character that has everything "go his way".There are characters in the DCU that I love Batman, Green Latern, Nightwing and the Huntress. i feel that they do tend to overpower thier characters a little bit. This is why some of my favs are street level guys like Luke Cage, DD, Spiderman and others.
 
ibsisomis said:
Brian very good assesment. But I hope people didn't think that by Thor hitting supes one time would make this fight oven with one blow because I wasn't implying that at all. I was saying that there is NO WAY he (supes) could have stopped Thor's swing with the hammer by ctaching it with his hand. That's all I was saying. I still think that Thor would beat him, but by no reason at all do I think the fight would be over in one blow!
I am as much a Marvel fan as much as anyone else is a DC fan. I don't like superman because of the way he is written. I do feel that no matter what they don't allow him to lose enough to make him a little bit more tolerable, he is already a boring character that has everything "go his way".There are characters in the DCU that I love Batman, Green Latern, Nightwing and the Huntress. i feel that they do tend to overpower thier characters a little bit. This is why some of my favs are street level guys like Luke Cage, DD, Spiderman and others.


Supes pretty much got his butt handed to him after that
 
BrianWilly said:
A little late on this point, but let me answer a few points a few pages back...specifically, regarding Wonder Woman's sword.

Wonder Woman's sword was forged by the smith-god Hephaestus. It was designed and enchanted specifically to be able to cut through anything, including shaving the electrons off of an atom. That's the enchantment. That's its "magic." When Hephaestus went about forging it, he specifically said, "I want this blade to be able to cut through anything. And since I'm amongst the most badass smith-gods in all mythology, if I want it to happen then it's gonna happen." Therefore, the blade is capable of slicing through anything. That's straight from the official DCU guide to Wonder Woman, out now in stores everywhere!...or something.

All magical items have certain limitations just as they have certain enchantments; this is pretty simple logic. If you specifically design an object to do certain things, you can't be surprised if it can't do other things. A remote control cannot be expected to play your CDs. Hermes' sandals can make you fly fast and warp, but it can't make you breathe water. So just as there are things that Wonder Woman's sword absolutely can do, there are also many things that it absolutely can not do.

For example! It is not unbreakable. Many of Wonder Woman's weapons, including that sword, have been broken either by other villains or by herself. The latest example would be when she threw the sword on the ground in the last issue of Infinite Crisis, and it shattered into two. The sword can cut through anything, but it itself is not invulnerable unlike, say, Diana's bracelets or lasso. Now in terms of physics, if something were capable of cutting through anything at all without a lot of force, you'd logically assume that it might be able to withstand some pretty hefty damage, too; only diamond can cut through diamond, after all, unless you're applying a ridiculous amount of strength. But this is not physics, this is magic! And not only does magic always come with a price, it also doesn't need to follow normal physical rules.

Another example! Anyone can use it. The sword is not specifically bound to Diana herself, nor does it have any enchantments prohibiting certain people from using it. Anyone could pick it up and start hacking and it would perform its enchantment -- cutting through anything -- just the same.

Now I bet you're wondering what the point of all this is. Well, let's compare her sword to Mjolnir. Mjolnir also has several enchantments placed on it, far more than WW's sword, in fact. It is, after all, the mythological weapon of a god, fit for a god.

One of the more famed of the hammer's abilities is that if you throw it, it will return to the exact spot from which it was thrown. Unless, for some reason, you grip onto the handle as you throw, in which case you will fly right along with the hammer as far as you threw it. Again: magic, not physics.

It is capable of manipulating the weather. Now, this might just be a channeling of Thor's innate nature as the god of thunder, similar to how the golden lasso channel's Wonder Woman's innate nature as the spirit of truth. But Wonder Woman can't force people to tell the truth without the lasso, and Thor can't fire lightning without the hammer. So, for all intents and purposes, anyone who is deemed worthy enough to wield Mjolnir can use it to manipulate the weather.

It is capable of manipulating other magical forces, such as the godblast, and redirecting energy of all types. This further goes to show why I think Captain Marvel would be screwed against Thor, since the lightning that powers him is just another type of energy that Thor could strip away.

It allows its wielder to create interdimensional portals.

As a religious relic, it is lethal to undead.

Last but not least, it grants the wielder increased strength and durability, usually on par with general Asgardian physiology.

Did I miss anything?

Now, for things that it cannot do: It is virtually indestructible, but not literally so. It has been damaged several times throughout canon.

One of the most well-known limitations is that only the worthy -- as ascertained by Marvel universe Asgardian standards -- can pick it up and wield it. This is absolute. The Hulk wouldn't be able to pick it up. If you view both Marvel vs DC and JLA/Avengers as canon -- which I personally don't, though your mileage may vary -- Wonder Woman can pick it up whereas Superman can't, unless it were in a very specific, dire situation and Odin's enchantment specifically recognized that situation. This might be because WW's attitude is closer to the Asgardians', in that it is sometimes justifiable to kill your enemies if there is no other choice, whereas Superman thinks it is completely unjustifiable at any time. This is correlatable with another person who has picked up the hammer before, Captain America, who has also killed people in times of war, but is in most other respects a lot like Superman.

And then we come to the real point of this rant, as it pertains to the topic at hand: Mjolnir cannot destroy everything. It cannot destroy everything. This is key. Unlike Wonder Woman's sword, Mjolnir does not have an enchantment on it specifically so that it would smash through everything that it hits. Throughout the course of the comics, there have been things and beings that have withstood being hit by Thor's hammer, if only barely. That would not be true if Mjolnir was specifically enchanted to damage everything it hits.

So if blows from Mjolnir are not specifically enchanted to do anything other than be blows, what does that mean? It means that being hit by Mjolnir is being hit by impact. The degree of the impact may be more severe, but pragmatically it is exactly the same as being hit by Thor's fists, or by Wonder Woman's fists, or by Captain Marvel's fists; the fists may be powered by magic, but the impact is not. Impact is a completely logical, physical, scientific phenomenon. There is nothing mystical or science-bending about it. Mjolnir glows with normal, natural, unenchanted lightning; it may glow with mystic energy at certain times, mostly for visual effect, but this energy is largely harmless and has no known offensive capability. "Glowing magic thing" is not grounds for being able to harm Superman, or anyone else for that matter. The Eye of Agamotto glows, but if you wack someone over the head with it, it's just going to feel like you wacked someone over the head with a medium-sized amulet.

Mjolnir hits you. It impacts you. There is absolutely no enchantment upon the hammer that says otherwise. The hammer is a magic hammer, but the impact it creates is devoid of enchantment, dependant solely on its own durability and Thor's magically-enhanced strength to deliver its physical power...again, unlike Wonder Woman's sword, whose slashes and thrusts are magically compelled to cut things. Wonder Woman could swing it or Spider-Ham could swing it, and it'd cut Superman just the same unless he got the hell out of the way.

Are you all beginning to understand why people think Thor's hammer hitting Superman isn't the same thing as Wonder Woman's sword slicing him, or Captain Marvel's lightning zapping him? Wonder Woman's sword is enchanted to slice people. The lightning of Shazam is raw mystic energy that zaps people exactly like lightning does, but with raw mystic energy. Thor's hammer is impact, albeit impact from strength and durability that is augmented by magic. And if impact from magically augmented strength was all it took to harm Superman, he should have bloody gaping holes in his body every time Wonder Woman even remotely attacks him. Which is more often than you'd think.

That is not assurance that Superman will win Thor; they are still closely-matched enough in strength that there's never quite any assurance one way or the other, and there is still the god-blast of course, and there are probably other things that Thor as a god could do which I'm forgetting at the moment that could mystically affect Superman. But unless you can come up with any instances of Mjolnir itself being able to affect things on an offensive mystical level, "Thor hitting Superman with his magic hammer" is not nearly grounds enough to call for his victory. And I might be wrong; there might indeed be instances such as this. But none that I'm aware of.

Great post, and agreed on it.

As for mjolnir affecting things on an offensive mystical level, he might be able to. I'm not a Thor expert (have read a lot of books with him in it, but hardly an expert) and am sure someone can quote something, but Thor as far as I know can do more than throw it and hit someone with it or channel lightning. Like the time he made it swirl around Juggernaut negating all magic within the area. He probably has a million uses for it he never shows, if it can control or enhance his ability to control lightning, it may be able to do more. Not sure if a godblast is magical in nature or not, but it could do damage. Totally agreed tho that WW's sword and Thor's hammer are not identical in their ability to hurt Superman.
 
I've got one question for you guys. If you guy are saying that the Thor's magic hammer can't knock Superman out (and I'm not saying it can, don't want to walk down that road again), explain how Captain Marvel can PUNCH Superman twice, knocking him out and afterwards say "Well, he's always been vulnerable to magic." If it's all about the impact, should Thor, who I would say is stronger than Capt. Marvel, be able to do the same damage or worse with Mjolnir as Cap did with just his fist, which seemed to be be fuled by magic.

Oh yeah, for those wondering this happened in JLA during the "Crisis Times Five" storyline which featured the JSA. It was during Morrison/Porter's run on the book. If you can go look it up and explain that to me. I would but I'm at work :)
 
back and forth,...

I guess I'm out of this one and will just read along.
 
The_Mystery said:
I've got one question for you guys. If you guy are saying that the Thor's magic hammer can't knock Superman out (and I'm not saying it can, don't want to walk down that road again), explain how Captain Marvel can PUNCH Superman twice, knocking him out and afterwards say "Well, he's always been vulnerable to magic." If it's all about the impact, should Thor, who I would say is stronger than Capt. Marvel, be able to do the same damage or worse with Mjolnir as Cap did with just his fist, which seemed to be be fuled by magic.

Oh yeah, for those wondering this happened in JLA during the "Crisis Times Five" storyline which featured the JSA. It was during Morrison/Porter's run on the book. If you can go look it up and explain that to me. I would but I'm at work :)

sucker punch...
normal people have been known to withstand bats to the face(albiet with alot of damage) but they're still awake.

at the same time if u get the jump on someone when there guard is down and from behind, it's a completely different story.

point in case...
how many times has superman taken captain marvels magic punches (to the face) in the past and seemingly laughed them off?
ie kingdom come!

sucker punch...


great post brian
and on the marvel boards no less

(it will be referrenced many times from this day forward)
 

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