The Dark Knight Rises Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

[Charlie The Red]

Well he wasn't really allowed. He was able to deduce that Bruce Wayne was Batman from empyrical data.

- He knew Bruce Wayne was an orphan, like himself.
- He acknowledged that Bruce Wayne went into hiding around the same time Batman became a fugitive.
- He probably noticed that the end of Bruce Wayne's seven year absence coincided with the reappearance of Batman.

Not to mention, he had a gut instinct because he'd met Bruce Wayne a number of times in the orphanage. He was able to get Bruce Wayne to allow him into his world through investigation and emotivism (their similar background and the fact that he preserved his identity, despite figuring it out himself).

You could say that, as a police officer, he kind of had Bruce Wayne's balls in a vice. Bruce Wayne obviously had a choice as to whether or not he could allow Blake into the world of Batman, but he chose to let him in based on a mutual trust and understanding between the two characters.

 

[Travesty]

It was the moment that Blake decided that working inside the system wasn't an effective way to help people, because bureaucracy and "following orders" nearly got everyone killed.

Spoiler

That scene was needed for the reveal that he'd probably become the new Batman.

Plus, it helped elevate the tension of the last act.

That's a fair enough answer.

 

[The Shape]

I will say that I agree with all of this except I still don't like what makes him a protege.

Kind of cheapens the 7 year journey that a rookie cop with a heart of gold is allowed to enter this world Bruce created.

But does it? Just because Bruce has provided Robin with the means to become "more than just a man" doesn't mean that he's ready to do that. We don't know what Robin will do after finding the cave, but my guess is it'll be some time before he hits the streets with his new persona.

Aside from spending 5 months at 'war' during Bane's siege on Gotham, we can imagine different scenarios for him to further his training:

-- Already a police officer trained in hand-to-hand combat, general knowledge of the inner workings of crime in Gotham, familiar with the Gotham landscape, and trained to use weapons
-- He may take it upon himself to further his training in hand-to-hand combat after seeing what Batman was capable of, maybe going so far as to traveling to world to do so
-- He'll have to improve his physical condition by working out
-- He'll have to spend time learning to use the various tools and vehicles which Bruce has provided him with
-- Prepare himself for his mission by keeping a watchful eye on the city for quite some time
-- He has an ally in Gordon and most likely Fox, just as Batman did. He is not alone.

** There's also the possibility that Bruce will make it known to Blake that he is still alive, and that Blake will travel overseas to be trained by Bruce himself. MAYBE, Bruce will become restless in his new life and eventually return to Gotham. OR he will return when need to aid Robin against a formidable threat.

There are many ways to look at this scenario and many stories that can still be told within this universe. We'll just never get a chance to see them.

 

[Brother Jack]

Robin works along side Batman in a cape and mask, not along side Gordon and other Cops. This was a Cop character through and through, boring me senseless with boy's home scenes, being accused of being a "hot head" when he wasn't, dragging the climax down with his ridiculous attempt to cross the bridge etc.

He was so unnecessary.

You may have not liked the character, but he was completely necessary. He was the realization of the continuation of Batman through someone else, which is what Bruce had been partly searching for the whole series. He tried with Harvey Dent and it didn't really work. With Blake he finally has someone who can take up the mantle, giving Bruce a way to have a normal life without leaving Gotham without a Batman. Because Gotham will always need Batman.

 

[The Joker]

You may have not liked the character, but he was completely necessary. He was the realization of the continuation of Batman through someone else, which is what Bruce had been partly searching for the whole series. He tried with Harvey Dent and it didn't really work. With Blake he finally has someone who can take up the mantle, giving Bruce a way to have a normal life without leaving Gotham without a Batman. Because Gotham will always need Batman.

Even though the previous two movies gave completely opposite messages? People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy (TDK continued that one via Dent inspiring Gotham with his heroic act of locking up half of the city's criminals). The whole point of Batman being to provide them with an example of someone who can stand up against the criminals and the corrupt. That's what Begins said. In TDK we're told Bruce will always need to be Batman. That he must endure and take what ever Gotham throws at him.

TDKR has Alfred saying he doesn't need to be Batman any more, even with the threat of Bane looming, and the Batman mantle can be passed onto another person even though Batman has already inspired Gotham more than ever, even getting a statue erected in his honor.

 

[Iceman]

I liked Blake the character, and as I mentioned I think he was actually focused on more than any other in terms of 'carrying' the plot along. I was a little disappointed in Gordon's usage in the movie character-wise, though. He was obviously very involved, but he just felt a bit more 'lost in the mix' in this one.

Couldn't reply to your earlier post along the same lines (closed thread).

Spoiler

He was given a fair amount of focus in this film yes and I personally liked how he was written/how he played it, but given the size of what he will become it elevates him to a bigger role than Catwoman for example and it's difficult for many to accept a brand new face taking up the mantle like that. If we'd seen him at least a tiny bit in the prior films (of course not possible without knowing beforehand) I think this would have been a lot easier. Same with Talia, the twist would have carried more weight if we'd known that a daughter who had been wronged in some way existed somewhere for Ra's Al Ghul. It's the ambition of this trilogy and its endings which is much higher than any recent set of films that makes these almost unfair requirements seem necessary.

 

[Brother Jack]

Even though the previous two movies gave completely opposite messages? People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy (TDK continued that one via Dent inspiring Gotham with his heroic act of locking up half of the city's criminals). The whole point of Batman being to provide them with an example of someone who can stand up against the criminals and the corrupt. That's what Begins said. In TDK we're told Bruce will always need to be Batman. That he must endure and take what ever Gotham throws at him.

TDKR has Alfred saying he doesn't need to be Batman any more, even with the threat of Bane looming, and the Batman mantle can be passed onto another person even though Batman has already inspired Gotham more than ever, even getting a statue erected in his honor.

Spoiler

Bruce is alive at the end of the film. If he wants to be Batman again he can.

 

[KalMart]

Couldn't reply to your earlier post along the same lines (closed thread).

Spoiler

He was given a fair amount of focus in this film yes and I personally liked how he was written/how he played it, but given the size of what he will become it elevates him to a bigger role than Catwoman for example and it's difficult for many to accept a brand new face taking up the mantle like that. If we'd seen him at least a tiny bit in the prior films (of course not possible without knowing beforehand) I think this would have been a lot easier. Same with Talia, the twist would have carried more weight if we'd known that a daughter who had been wronged in some way existed somewhere for Ra's Al Ghul. It's the ambition of this trilogy and its endings which is much higher than any recent set of films that makes these almost unfair requirements seem necessary.

Agreed in regards to prior films...but also with Catwoman. All combined made for a rather tight and somewhat truncated squeeze when they could use more breathing room.

 

[georgec]

But does it? Just because Bruce has provided Robin with the means to become "more than just a man" doesn't mean that he's ready to do that. We don't know what Robin will do after finding the cave, but my guess is it'll be some time before he hits the streets with his new persona.

Aside from spending 5 months at 'war' during Bane's siege on Gotham, we can imagine different scenarios for him to further his training:

-- Already a police officer trained in hand-to-hand combat, general knowledge of the inner workings of crime in Gotham, familiar with the Gotham landscape, and trained to use weapons
-- He may take it upon himself to further his training in hand-to-hand combat after seeing what Batman was capable of, maybe going so far as to traveling to world to do so
-- He'll have to improve his physical condition by working out
-- He'll have to spend time learning to use the various tools and vehicles which Bruce has provided him with
-- Prepare himself for his mission by keeping a watchful eye on the city for quite some time
-- He has an ally in Gordon and most likely Fox, just as Batman did. He is not alone.

** There's also the possibility that Bruce will make it known to Blake that he is still alive, and that Blake will travel overseas to be trained by Bruce himself. MAYBE, Bruce will become restless in his new life and eventually return to Gotham. OR he will return when need to aid Robin against a formidable threat.

There are many ways to look at this scenario and many stories that can still be told within this universe. We'll just never get a chance to see them.

Great post again. I'm liking your reasoning in all these threads, Shape. I feel like you're being very rational about the film.

 

[KidHolland8]

Even though the previous two movies gave completely opposite messages? People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy (TDK continued that one via Dent inspiring Gotham with his heroic act of locking up half of the city's criminals). The whole point of Batman being to provide them with an example of someone who can stand up against the criminals and the corrupt. That's what Begins said. In TDK we're told Bruce will always need to be Batman. That he must endure and take what ever Gotham throws at him.

TDKR has Alfred saying he doesn't need to be Batman any more, even with the threat of Bane looming, and the Batman mantle can be passed onto another person even though Batman has already inspired Gotham more than ever, even getting a statue erected in his honor.

In batman begins, Bruce is emphasizing Being more than just a man, a Symbol. In TDK he is searching for a man without a mask to take his mantle, he is starting to forget what he said, by the end of the movie, he realizes that even the best of us can be taken down. And in TDKR, Bruce talks about Blake wearing a mask, Blake is everything that Robin, without the robin costume. Bruce realizes someone should continue being a symbol for Gotham, someone to stand up against the corrupt.

 

[Spuzz]

Spoiler

Bruce is alive at the end of the film. If he wants to be Batman again he can.

Absolutely, but that would sort of defeat the whole purpose of the ending, which is him leaving it behind to live a normal life.

 

[The Joker]

Spoiler

Bruce is alive at the end of the film. If he wants to be Batman again he can.

Spoiler

That would defeat the whole purpose of the ending after he faked his death and moved abroad with Selina to start a normal life. A clean slate.

 

[the amazing fro]

While I quite liked the ending and the John Blake character, seeing TDKR really makes me want to see the Robin story done properly in the reboot. Robin's journey could form the crux of a new trilogy. The first movie would his origin, the second would end with his resignation and then finishing with his rejoining with Bruce as Nightwing in the third movie. And as Robin's character grows and develops so does Bruce's as he deals with fatherhood and his resulting legacy.

 

[Zatanna]

While watching the film for the first time, I kept remembering a post that I read on here from somebody who had been to an early screening, somebody who dubbed the film, "John Blake Rises". Well, honestly, it's part truth LMAO. I had to chuckle to myself when watching his scenes, because I could clearly see what the poster meant.

With that said, Joe gave a solid performance and I enjoyed the character, I really did.

 

[KalMart]

Spoiler

That would defeat the whole purpose of the ending after he faked his death and moved abroad with Selina to start a normal life. A clean slate.

But the way it ended with him,

Spoiler

you also wonder if he'll be keeping tabs on Gotham, even out of curiosity...and what if Blake got killed...would he have to come back and find another person?

But it's all hypothetical, anyway.

 

[EliteF50]

Not sure why people wanted John Blake's name to be Dick Grayson... that would change the entire movie. Can you imagine the fanboy backlash if Dick was a beatcop with heart instead of an acrobat who was taken in by Bruce?

I think the whole Blake/Batman thing worked out wonderfully.

 

[Bruce Malone]

There have been 4 [BLACKOUT]robins[/BLACKOUT] what is so wrong with blake being an amalgamation of them all in tribute to the character of [BLACKOUT]robin[/BLACKOUT] as a whole?

It would make no sense for him to be Greyson as his origin is different as it is drake's, todd's etc.

 

[EliteF50]

Exactly.

 

[Matt]

I liked the character well enough. I dare say that he was the most enjoyable and relatable part of the movie. That may be part of my problem with the movie.

 

[Fudgie]

Hated this character. He took up too many scenes.

The Robin thing was ultra lame.

 

[KalMart]

Not sure why people wanted

Spoiler

John Blake's name to be Dick Grayson... that would change the entire movie. Can you imagine the fanboy backlash if Dick was a beatcop with heart instead of an acrobat who was taken in by Bruce?

I think the whole Blake/Batman thing worked out wonderfully.

Well, there's still some folks who are wondering why

Spoiler

they didn't just make a Dick Grayson who was an acrobat taken in by Bruce, straight up....since all the other characters ended up being their comic-source namesakes.

Which kinda' points out that they

Spoiler

put their 'cutoff-point' to what was acceptable right before actually being Robin by title, even though a completely unrelated/coincidental original first name was okay.

I liked the character well enough. I dare say that he was the most enjoyable and relatable part of the movie. That may be part of my problem with the movie.

He was probably the most focused character of the actual film, in terms of our following his struggle and identifying with him.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Well, there's still some folks who are wondering why

Spoiler

they didn't just make a Dick Grayson who was an acrobat taken in by Bruce, straight up....since all the other characters ended up being their comic-source namesakes.

Which kinda' points out that they

Spoiler

put their 'cutoff-point' to what was acceptable right before actually being Robin by title, even though a completely unrelated/coincidental original first name was okay.

He was probably the most focused character of the actual film, in terms of our following his struggle and identifying with him.

You know that would never have worked for this film. This bruce was not going to adopt an acrobat child.

The character of blake is not all about being robin he's his own character which in a way serves like i said as an amalgamation of all the robins that have served with batman.

He's not dick grayson, he's not jason todd.

 

[Zatanna]

He was probably the most focused character of the actual film, in terms of our following his struggle and identifying with him.

"John Blake Rises".

 

[EliteF50]

Well, there's still some folks who are wondering why

Spoiler

they didn't just make a Dick Grayson who was an acrobat taken in by Bruce, straight up....since all the other characters ended up being their comic-source namesakes.

Because that would change the whole movie. And Bruce was in no position to adopt a child. He was on his way back to becoming a real man again.

That Dick Grayson name argument holds no weight, imo.

 

[KalMart]

Because that would change the whole movie. And Bruce was in no position to adopt a child. He was on his way back to becoming a real man again.

Well, I think some people feel it should have changed to better include that to begin with, or not at all out of respect.

That Dick Grayson name argument holds no weight, imo.

Honestly...I think it works best if [blackout]you could possibly imagine that there was never such things as a Robin or Dick Grayson in the comics. If you only look at it in the context of this story, then their outlook is that Gotham will never not need a Batman or whoever will fill that duty. So in this story, with tis character named John Blake that they established, it makes sense that it would be him to do that in some capacity...in law enforcement, in politics, or something else.[/blackout] Then [blackout]his real first name being Robin is just an unrelated detail, and not a title of destiny or what have you. [/blackout]

But it's only natural for some to feel that they [blackout]didn't go the distance with a Robin when they clearly showed the ability to....if they wanted to.[/blackout]