Joss Whedon Explains Why DC Heroes Lack Movie Appeal & How He’d Do A Batman Film

[baerrtt]

Don't know if anyone has seen this. It's from MTV's splash page:-

Batman has been receiving lots of love from the mainstream movie world lately, but according to Joss Whedon, DC’s Dark Knight is the publisher’s only character with any chance of holding onto that lovin’ Hollywood feeling.
“With that one big exception (Batman), DC’s heroes are from a different era,” Whedon recently told Maxim Magazine when asked why the publisher had so much trouble bringing its iconic characters to the big screen. “DC’s characters, like Wonder Woman and Superman and Green Lantern, were all very much removed from humanity. Batman was the only character they had who was so rooted in pain, that had that same gift that the Marvel characters had, which was that gift of humanity that we can relate to.”
Of course, Whedon’s sentiment shouldn’t be news to fans of Batman or the wildly popular “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” creator, who shared the details of his own Batman movie pitch with MTV last year — a film that introduced a new villain to the character’s rogues gallery, and was “less epic” but “similar in tone” to Christopher Nolan’s “Batman Begins.”
“It was more about the progression of him and it was more in Gotham City,” Whedon told MTV of his big-screen Batman story. “He didn’t go to Tibet and meet cool people … In my version, there was actually a new [villain], it wasn’t one of the classics — which is probably why they didn’t use it.”
In the Maxim interview (which was detailed in Coventry’s “Geek Files” blog), Whedon further explores the differences between DC and Marvel characters (”[Marvel's characters] didn’t live in mythical cities, they lived in New York. They absolutely were a part of the world.”) and even sheds a bit more light on his much-discussed experience with the on-again, off-again live-action “Wonder Woman” movie.
“I have no idea the status of the movie and, honestly, I never did,” said Whedon. “I was told they were very anxious to make it. I wrote a script. I rewrote the story. And by the time I’d written the second script, they asked me…not to.”
“They didn’t tell me to leave, but they showed me the door and how pretty it was,” added Whedon. “Would I like to touch the knob and maybe make it swing?”
Think Whedon is right about Batman? Would you like to see Whedon’s Batman movie? Sound off!

 

[Octoberist]

let's be honest: this is nothing really new.

I like both companies but both have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Philly Phanboy]

“They didn’t tell me to leave, but they showed me the door and how pretty it was,” added Whedon. “Would I like to touch the knob and maybe make it swing?”

I wish somebody would have shown Joss the pretty door and maybe made it swing before he did such a mess writing for Runaways.

Anyhow I don't particularly agree on his assessment on the non-Batman heroes either. A good story is the key to success; saying that Batman's movie success was because his character is rooted in pain is missing the bigger picture.

 

[Octoberist]

What about The Flash and Green Lantern. Hal Jordan, barry Allen, and Wally West are all relatable in their different ways.

 

[Evil Twin]

I'm of the opinion that the "it's set in real cities" is a catchall that doesn't mean much. Last I checked, Gotham City isn't real, but mainstream audiences sure seemed to like seeing it on the big screen. It's not like STAR WARS or LORD OF THE RINGS were set in modern day America.

And, how valid is Joss Whedon's take on box office anyways?

 

[Octoberist]

that's true. It doesn't really matter.

 

[mclay18]

As much as I love Whedon, he is dead wrong on this issue. What he says about WW and GL can be updated to the 21st century and made accessible to the general public, his argument is the same for the ardent Marvel-is-great-who-gives-a-crap-for-DC fans. Just because they don't live in an actual U.S. city and don't have Batman's personal demons doesn't mean they can't be well-drawn or viable.

As for his being shown the door by Warners, that was Joel Silver's doing. Silver needs to keep his greasy, flamboyant hands away from ANY superhero franchise in general.

 

[TheVileOne]

Well he is doing He-Man.

I think Whedon just has sour grapes about not doing Wonder Woman. I mean he said all of the above, yet at one time he was still committed to making a Wonder Woman movie.

 

[The Batman]

and suddenly, i'm glad whedon was rejected on both batman and wonder woman...he clearly dosent respect why these heroes are so great in the first place

 

[spark627]

I'm sorry, I love Buffy but Joss Whedon is an annoying one-note and he is clearly bitter that didn't get to do Batman and WW (and that his creations haven't hit it off).

He didn't do Batman and Wonder Woman bc his stories aren't that great and he wants to re-create them to be his. He also wanted to create a villian for WW, change her outfit, make her younger and take away her flight... there are many projects that Joss should never touch.

Also, knowing Joss he would've had WW and Steve Trevor have sex and then had Steve killed... isn't that what he always does?

 

[Crook]

and suddenly, i'm glad whedon was rejected on both batman and wonder woman...he clearly dosent respect why these heroes are so great in the first place

Indeed. Whedon should just shut up and sit down. He's making it seem as if the DC heroes have no roots in humanity. Couldn't be more dead-wrong.

 

[The Major]

As much as I love Whedon, he is dead wrong on this issue. What he says about WW and GL can be updated to the 21st century and made accessible to the general public, his argument is the same for the ardent Marvel-is-great-who-gives-a-crap-for-DC fans. Just because they don't live in an actual U.S. city and don't have Batman's personal demons doesn't mean they can't be well-drawn or viable.

As for his being shown the door by Warners, that was Joel Silver's doing. Silver needs to keep his greasy, flamboyant hands away from ANY superhero franchise in general.

Agreed.

I may be wrong but I get the impression Joss hasn't read many DC comics. He'd love Rucka's WW, Morrison's JLA, Johns' GL, Ostrander's Suicide Squad, Grell's Green Arrow, Simone's Birds of Prey and Secret Six, Andreyko's Manhunter, Tomasi's GLC, Giffen's L.E.G.I.O.N, Waid's previous Legion or Brubaker's Catwoman. That may be coloring his perception. His thoughts were true in the 60's but not anymore. The DCU has come a long way into being relevant.

 

[The Major]

I think Whedon just has sour grapes about not doing Wonder Woman. I mean he said all of the above, yet at one time he was still committed to making a Wonder Woman movie.

He still wants to make WW IIRC.

 

[Mister J]

Joss put his foot in his mouth the second he referenced Superman in connection with a 'removal from humanity'. Those comments are ridiculously oversimplified and inaccurate in numerous respects.

 

[The Batman]

Joss put his foot in his mouth the second he referenced Superman in connection with a 'removal from humanity'. Those comments are ridiculously oversimplified and inaccurate in numerous respects.

exactly...superman is inherently about humanity...joss whedon really comes off as a marvel biased idiot here....

 

[JokerLedger]

Whedon is a dumb fruit... Glad his Wonder Woman script didn't get made. What a piece of crap idea it was. He takes forever to write the script when two nobodies wrote a kickass spec script in a short amount of time.

 

[Sawyer]

Jesus guys.... he's not outright saying "you know what? **** DC. I hate them. Superman's stupid. And Batman's gay." Some of you need to just chill out. He's stating his opinion and it's clear he's thought it out, which is more than I can say for a majority of people.

Do I agree with him? No, not necessarily. But I think he has a point, it's just not very well stated. He says that they are removed from humanity, which I definately dont agree with as the reason DC films arent as frequent as Marvel's. I think it's mainly becase DC's stuff is so much mythologically larger than Marvel's.

 

[The Major]

Whedon is a dumb fruit...

Glad his Wonder Woman script didn't get made. What a piece of crap idea it was.

It wasn't perfect but it was a good direction for the franchise IMO.

He takes forever to write the script when two nobodies wrote a kickass spec script in a short amount of time.

Debatable. Here's a link for what happened.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=302377

 

[Crook]

Jesus guys.... he's not outright saying "you know what? **** DC. I hate them. Superman's stupid. And Batman's gay." Some of you need to just chill out. He's stating his opinion and it's clear he's thought it out, which is more than I can say for a majority of people.

It's not that he's stating an opinion. It's just...wrong. In every aspect. How can anyone even say what he did about DC, if they simply read the comics, or ANY story within the past...2 decades?

Do I agree with him? No, not necessarily. But I think he has a point, it's just not very well stated. He says that they are removed from humanity, which I definately dont agree with as the reason DC films arent as frequent as Marvel's. I think it's mainly becase DC's stuff is so much mythologically larger than Marvel's.

If it is, it surely isn't by any noticeable margin. Both have stacked up a large amount of mythology to supply endless adaptations.

 

[Octoberist]

Latino Review has the best article based on Joss's comments:

http://www.latinoreview.com/news/jo...aving-a-hard-time-with-its-dc-properties-6265

" I don't agree with Joss' opinion on why DC heroes are struggling to get to the big screen. I don't think it has anything to do with connecting to audiences because I somehow managed to connect just fine with Lois Lane and Clark Kent back in the day when Reeve was flying around on the big screen."

"I mean, if a movie sucks, no audience will connect with it regardless of the hero. Fantastic Four, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Spider-Man 3, all are Marvel heroes rooted in humanity, yet all were enormous piece of **** movies."

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I don't agree with him. DC has wonderful characters that could easily be relatable. WB were just dragging their feet on making movies for one reason or another. I wish I knew that reason.

WB is only having trouble with Superman because they refuse to let go of Donner's old ass interpretation and reboot the franchise for the 2000's.

 

[Heretic]

Whedon is wrong in this instance...

Obama is a DC hero. The public views him as this perfect man who will lea us to a new golden age...had you done a poll a few years ago on whether the public could view ANY politician that way again it would have been a massive "No we can't!"

So...are DCs capes hard to believe in todays culture? Sure...but with a good movie, we could all be be saying "Yes, we can".

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I'm of the opinion that the "it's set in real cities" is a catchall that doesn't mean much. Last I checked, Gotham City isn't real, but mainstream audiences sure seemed to like seeing it on the big screen. It's not like STAR WARS or LORD OF THE RINGS were set in modern day America.

And, how valid is Joss Whedon's take on box office anyways?

In the DC Universe there has definitely been a hesitance to use any modern era history in their stories, with a very few notable exceptions. This is, I think, largely to do with it's mythical setting. Though I think the elephant in the room Whedon is missing; the MAIN difference between Marvel and DC is that DC has a pantheon of heroes, whereas Marvel does not. Marvels most powerful and most influential heroes in their universe are far from their most popular. Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man are arguably their pantheon of sorts, yet the Marvel Universe seems to rotate around the very interpersonal stories in X-Men, Spider-Man and Fantastic Four. If you think about Marvel's key stories, there is much more of a low man overcoming impossible odds feel to them.

For example, in Marvel, when Galactus attacks, a disfunctional family goes in and fights him. However stick a similar event in DC are Superman or the JL are the clear go-to guys. Marvel has Superman-esque characters, but they tend not to be the movers and shakers, and much more often seem to meddle less with human affairs. Thor, Silver Surfer, Dr. Strange, and Hulk are all uber-powerful and much, much more aloof than Superman, Green Lantern or Wonder Woman.

I think what it comes down to is ultimately Marvel's message is more cynical, and their story is much more about ordinary men placed in extrodinary circumstances whereas DC is far more likely to right a story like Rocky - where an ordinary man becomes extrodinary through hard work and or divine intervention. I doubt either story is more relateable, but I would say that DC stories are harder to write because it's far easier to right about Hard-luck Parker and make him believeable than to write about Superman.

 

[cerealkiller182]

agree.

DC comics were created to be gods in a sense. When people talk about comics being modern myths they are certainly talking about the original DC characters. It was all about idolizing the heroes, where as Marvel was all about relating to the man behind the mask.

But while they were created to be god-like, they certainly have evolved into the human portrayals that Marvel made a name for, and vice versa at Marvel.

Biggest problem with DC is the tonal and character changes from era to era has split the fan group. How many HAl vs Kyle arguments are there. How many Wally vs Barry? Even without an actual person change Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman have had incredible differences era to era. In the end its the numerous versions that have left a number of creators leaving DC movies because of "creative differences"

 

[ClarkLuther55]

DC heroes being inhuman mythical Gods or impossibly perfect model citizens is a generalization that may have been true in the 60s, but ignores all the developments of the past few decades. DC comics are arguably darker than Marvel right now. Recent DC adaptations on the small screen and direct-to-DVD have shown that the characters can be fleshed out to have human emotions.

Superman:
An alien living among humans. Raised by a pair of loving adopted parents, he still had to grow up knowing he was different from everyone else. Imagine the self control and moral fortitude he must have not to abuse his godly strength for personal gain. Superman stands for "truth, justice, and the American way" in a cynical age when such concepts are often considered naive. Superman holds the weight of the world on his shoulders, and you've got to believe that it's not always easy to stay true to his ideals like he does.

Wonder Woman:
A messenger of peace, from an "enlightened" society. She must strive to change a world full of conflict and war. An easy metaphor for the struggle between the logical progession of society and age-old prejudices and hatreds.