HBO Sci-Fi Series ‘’The Nevers’’

[Sithborg]

The thing about being that averse to controversy is that it's going to inevitably lead to a situation where they don'twant to act on something, but must because they set a precedent for it.

I do feel sadness for Joss even though a fell out of love with his work a while ago. Based on that statement he's not in a good place. Hope the time to himself is fruitful.

Good. We have let ash flash behavior, at best, get away with it because of "the art" for far, far too long.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm going to be honest. This makes me happy. I was excited for the show based on the premise and the actors involved, and while Whedon has qualities as a writer that I have always enjoyed, he's pretty clearly a garbage human being from the sound of things.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Good. We have let ******* behavior, at best, get away with it because of "the art" for far, far too long.

Seriously. Whedon, even if nothing happened with JL, is hot garbage. We know that. So why feel pity for the rich white guy, who never has to work a day in his life, when this is all his fault?

 

[DarkKnight88]

I don’t know him personally so I’m not going to comment on that, but I’ve never really liked any of his stuff. Buffy was always lame to me and his Avengers felt like big budget tv. I know I’m the minority in that, he just never really clicked in his writing or filmmaking for me. Always felt winky to me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don’t know him personally so I’m not going to comment on that, but I’ve never really liked any of his stuff. Buffy was always lame to me and his Avengers felt like big budget tv. I know I’m the minority in that, he just never really clicked in his writing or filmmaking for me. Always felt winky to me.

I will always love Buffy. Angel and Firefly. They definitely show their age every once in a while, but I adore them. But I do know a lot of people who don't like them at all, so I get you. 100% with you on the Avengers.

 

[TheFuture]

Seriously. Whedon, even if nothing happened with JL, is hot garbage. We know that. So why feel pity for the rich white guy, who never has to work a day in his life, when this is all his fault?

Just saying.... I've generally no time for Whedon due to his treatment of Charisma Carpenter and his ex wife, but I do find it a little uncomfortable to watch such a public unravelling of someone when all we know for certain is that the guy is a dick.

Maybe more is about to come out that will have Whedon bang to rights.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Just saying.... I've generally no time for Whedon due to his treatment of Charisma Carpenter and his ex wife, but I do find it a little uncomfortable to watch such a public unravelling of someone when all we know for certain is that the guy is a dick.

Maybe more is about to come out that will have Whedon bang to rights.

Reading WB's statement, this does not feel like Joss left of his own accord. It sounds like they told him to leave, like with Depp. In Depp's situation, it was after he got a judge to say he most likely abused his wife at least 11 times. We know WB is having an investigation over the JL situation. We also know that Jason Momoa has called out WB for trying to obscure Ray Fisher's accusations, while also saying something happened and it wasn't okay. Likelihood is, they know something went down and whether we find it out or not, they told Whedon to leave. Which is pretty insane, considering this is the third time Whedon has been fired in the last 5 years, and each time he tries to play it like it is because he wanted to walk away and was tired. Which considering he decided to jump into Justice League and then a Batgirl project, after claiming burn out with AoU is really telling imo.

Dude just got fired for the second time by WB. That would be hilarious, if not for the accusations this time around. My only real sadness over this is Alan Tudyk, who I am a fan of, had to go Karen on the situation and open him mouth not understanding the obvious difference between him (Whedon's white male friend) and someone like Fisher.

 

[Filmfreak]

Was he fired after Age of Ultron? It's the first time I'm hearing this. And I find it weird that WB would kick him out of Batgirl only to offer him a huge HBO TV show in return.

That being said, it definitely sounds like he's fired this time around. And it surely must have to do something with the Fisher accusations.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I dont think he was fired, just wasn't asked back to direct. That's normal with directors, studios want a different direction so they go to someone else.

I think JL was definitely a "ill do this if you give me Batgirl" but it blew up in everyone faces in every possible way.

Joss definitely became a bit to big for his bridges, if his career survives all of this, hopefully it brings him a bit more down to Earth again.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Eh, it’s not a shame because I feel bad for Whedon it’s a shame because Whedon is brilliant and a return to television for him held enormous potential. I’m sure he’ll get another show, it’s whatever, but unless we get confirmation he’s a David O. Russell esque verbally abusive psychopath on set whether he’s an unpleasant boss or not is, while clearly something overly coddled in the industry, not massively interesting to me.

As long as he was being horrible on the set of The Nevers, I’m fine with this. If it was because he was an ash on JL? That’s just water under the bridge unless there’s some really particularly toxic stuff there.

 

[henzINNIT]

Whedon has written some of my favourite things, and I was eager to see what his return to TV would yield.

... But it's looking increasingly likely that he did something shady, and that sucks. 5 years ago he was the writer/director of two of the most successful movies of all time. Crazy that basically nothing came together since. I doubt the money he got for Justice League was worth it.

 

[TheFuture]

I'm currently doing a rewatch of Buffy and I can see sometimes the mask slipping. He uses a lot of mean-spirited tropes

 

[Eddie Dean]

I think the real problem is the disconnect where Whedon has been very vocal about feminism despite his work repeatedly being retrograde in attitudes toward sex and race (Firefly, the show set in a future where everyone speaks Mandarin, but no Chinese people exist). There's enough evidence of what Whedon finds attractive in women (lithe, barefoot fighting machines who eventually break down in tears) where his version of feminists heroines pretty clearly also serve as fetish objects for him. Now, I don't have a problem with consuming art that is problematic or is complicated with the author's id and personal hangups, that's what makes a lot of art interesting, but the problem I have with Whedon is how he positions himself as a "woke bae" (his words) while he's still stuck in 2002 where all he had to do to get feminist bona fides is give a female character a gun.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Oh Whedon’s woke cred is undeniably super dodgy.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Ironic that Zack Snyder turns out to be more of a respectable stand up guy than Joss Whedon when people like to judge the opposite based on their work.

 

[Sithborg]

I dont think he was fired, just wasn't asked back to direct. That's normal with directors, studios want a different direction so they go to someone else.

I think JL was definitely a "ill do this if you give me Batgirl" but it blew up in everyone faces in every possible way.

Joss definitely became a bit to big for his bridges, if his career survives all of this, hopefully it brings him a bit more down to Earth again.

I mean, it was clear that he was unhappy with Age of Ultron. I assume he and Feige were having a go around behind the scenes.

 

[Filmfreak]

Ironic that Zack Snyder turns out to be more of a respectable stand up guy than Joss Whedon when people like to judge the opposite based on their work.

I never saw anyone judging Snyder's character or even professionalism based on his work. Nor should they. One has very little to do with the other.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Let's of people like to put him down because of the Objectivist leanings in his work, but I think he just likes The Fountainhead because it's about an awesome guy who builds a really cool skyscraper.

 

[DarkKnight88]

I never saw anyone judging Snyder's character or even professionalism based on his work. Nor should they. One has very little to do with the other.

Are you kidding? People always judge artist’s character on their work. Did you miss the internet calling out Snyder as a “brodude” on boards and such? It’s sad, but it happened. Just worth pointing out how the perception of the two has changed in the five years.

 

[Filmfreak]

Yeah I must have missed that. I never heard anything bad about him as a person, only good things from his associates and people who know him. But then again I haven't been following him that closely. Anyway, I'm one of those weirdos who try to separate the artist himself from his work, even if sometimes my perception is inevitably affected in the end.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Was he fired after Age of Ultron? It's the first time I'm hearing this. And I find it weird that WB would kick him out of Batgirl only to offer him a huge HBO TV show in return.

That being said, it definitely sounds like he's fired this time around. And it surely must have to do something with the Fisher accusations.

I dont think he was fired, just wasn't asked back to direct. That's normal with directors, studios want a different direction so they go to someone else.

I think JL was definitely a "ill do this if you give me Batgirl" but it blew up in everyone faces in every possible way.

Joss definitely became a bit to big for his bridges, if his career survives all of this, hopefully it brings him a bit more down to Earth again.

To me this is clearly fired. Whedon selling the burn out story after, then jumping on the JL train is a big signal to me of someone who wanted to continue, but Feige didn't want him back. How intergral the Russos were to the last three Avengers flicks, tells the tale imo. TWS was their test run, and when they passed it, they ditched Whedon.

Bat Girl was a thing, and then just disappeared into the ether. He got the Nevers from HBO, which has a different hierarchy after a period of time out of the spotlight, and now he is gone again.

 

[Filmfreak]

I'm sure Marvel would have kept him if everything ran smoothly but I am leaning more towards his departure being for actual creative reasons or bumpy collaboration (I remember reports saying a big part of Age of Ultron was cut) and more of a mutual decision. Also Justice League might have been another huge tentpole film but he was barely going to built it from scratch. That was definitely the dumbest decision of his career, though.

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah I must have missed that. I never heard anything bad about him as a person, only good things from his associates and people who know him. But then again I haven't been following him that closely. Anyway, I'm one of those weirdos who try to separate the artist himself from his work, even if sometimes my perception is inevitably affected in the end.

Except of course, when his beliefs clearly are inserted into his films. Snyder may be a nice guy, but he clearly has some shirtty beliefs. Ayn Rand is a big warning sign. Though, to be fair, it does appear that he is not as shirtty as a fan of those books could be.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I'm sure Marvel would have kept him if everything ran smoothly but I am leaning more towards his departure being for actual creative reasons or bumpy collaboration (I remember reports saying a big part of Age of Ultron was cut) and more of a mutual decision. Also Justice League might have been another huge tentpole film but he was barely going to built it from scratch. That was definitely the dumbest decision of his career, though.

I think it was more that Marvel wanted him to add a bunch of stuff to set up future movies. I remember the Thor's visions of the future was a big point of contention between him and Marvel.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Let's of people like to put him down because of the Objectivist leanings in his work, but I think he just likes The Fountainhead because it's about an awesome guy who builds a really cool skyscraper.

Yeah, Zack just seems more immature and prone to silly posturing a bad person, although there’s some super gross politics in his movies. Both Snyder and Whedon seem fairly annoying and self important to me in very different ways.

To me this is clearly fired. Whedon selling the burn out story after, then jumping on the JL train is a big signal to me of someone who wanted to continue, but Feige didn't want him back. How intergral the Russos were to the last three Avengers flicks, tells the tale imo. TWS was their test run, and when they passed it, they ditched Whedon.

Bat Girl was a thing, and then just disappeared into the ether. He got the Nevers from HBO, which has a different hierarchy after a period of time out of the spotlight, and now he is gone again.

Whedon had huge creative battles with Marvel. Russos are clearly yes men, very talented but they’re also total hired guns without the kind of authorial voice Whedon has, Feige has a clear preference for good soldiers and Whedon pretty evidently had a miserable experience on Ultron. It’s hard to say it had anything to do with him being some kinda abusive jerk, most of the stories about Whedon’s conflicts with Marvel on Ultron reflect worse on Feige. Don’t disagree that it’s an interesting pattern though.