Keep Hope Alive: Marvel Netflix Series Edition

[TheVileOne]

it would be like skipping over Hank and Janet and having Scott Lang and Hope Van Dyne as the MCU's Ant Man and the Wasp. Or introducing Carol Danvers as the first Captain Marvel.

Netflix's Iron Fist has waaaay to much going against him to ever make his way into MCU proper. If Henwick's Wing doesn't make the jump I could see either a recasting or another Immortal Weapon taking over.

So basically, something MCU typically does a lot

 

[TheVileOne]

Which is kinda weird since he was much stronger than in the Netflix show and the story followed the comic book.

I think it was more the presentation of the character. For starters, his reveal was badly done. No drama or suspenseful buildup at all. Just that blurry photo garbage.

 

[henzINNIT]

Yeah I don't think people were concerned with his power level, more with Fisk's lack of presence and being goofy as hell. The downside to MCU integration. We'll have to wait and see how these characters fair in future.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah I don't think people were concerned with his power level, more with Fisk's lack of presence and being goofy as hell. The downside to MCU integration. We'll have to wait and see how these characters fair in future.

Well it was hard to buy for the last however many years, Fisk has been managing and heading up these Keystone Cop level amateur thugs who are less competent than Inspector Clouseau. I feel like the Netflix Fisk would've had them liquidated.

 

[Holy Slapper]

I think it was more the presentation of the character. For starters, his reveal was badly done. No drama or suspenseful buildup at all. Just that blurry photo garbage.

Well that's just like your opinion, man. I liked it and based on Youtube reactions, everyone else did too.

 

[TheVileOne]

Well that's just like your opinion, man. I liked it and based on Youtube reactions, everyone else did too.

That's fine. They're entitled to their opinions. But clearly not everyone feels the exact same way.

 

[Holy Slapper]

That's fine. They're entitled to their opinions. But clearly not everyone feels the exact same way.

But most people did.

 

[Dr. Evil]

But most people did.

I didn't mind it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I thought Kingpin was fine in Hawkeye

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I do think the choice for the current Iron Fist was made for a reason.

Eh, I wouldn't put too much stock in it. Characters temporarily take on the mantle of others all the time and it definitely doesn't always work. It's hard to say at this point when Lin Lie just became the Iron Fist if they'll do anything interesting with him or not
.

is Sword Master a popular character? Legit question cause I know literally nothing about him, lol.

Sword Master was initially created specifically for the Chinese market. He was created by Chinese writers and artists and his comics were originally written in Chinese and only later translated to English for an international release. I don't have data on his success in China and it's hard to tell since I don't speak the language and they use different social media sites there.

Spoiler

I think in the west he's probably most well known as a member of the new Agents of Atlas. Is he a "popular" character? I guess not really, at least not in the Anglosphere. However, I think he shares that with almost every original character Marvel introduced in the past 30 years. I wouldn't have called Jessica Jones or Echo "popular" before their respective shows either but I'm glad we got them as themselves and not as "Power Woman" and "the new Daredevil" or something like that. I think Marvel has had major issues with marketing their original characters for a long time. Pretty much the only "new" characters you hear a lot about nowadays are characters like Miles Morales, Kamala Khan, Sam Alexander, Robbie Reyes, Riri Williams, etc. who are marketed as "the new [insert popular existing Marvel hero here]" and sold in a book bearing the name of that existing character. What's more important to me is that he's an actual fresh, new, original Marvel character with loads of potential and enough material with regards to lore, supporting characters, villains, etc. to carry his own project. Characters like that are in dire need of getting a spotlight if Marvel wants to remain fresh and innovative, rather than stagnant and only dependent on their big names from the 1960s. And I think introducing such characters into the MCU actually provides an opportunity to somewhat rejuvinate the Marvel Brand as a whole. Plus Lin Lie has the added bonus of being actually written and designed both by and for the culture he represents, which is a precious rarity among Marvel characters who are mostly the product of middle aged white American men.

Spoiler

 

[metaphysician]

I thought Kingpin was fine in Hawkeye

Likewise. He was the big boss that ruled crime in NYC, with street level supervillains in his employ, and contacts able to haul out resources up to and including mercenary ex-Black Widows. He also had *survived* the prior rampage by Clint Barton, that is not nothing.

If you were expecting him to be an overwhelming force the heroes could only run from in terror. . . well, frankly, that was never a reasonable expectation. Even with the personal powerup, Fisk was never going to be someone operating on the same power scale as the Avengers. He was, as he should be, someone whose power and scope is noteworthy and worrisome, but ultimately only existed to a certain point. He also is a character who, in the comics source material, has a nasty habit of overextending himself and suffering notable setbacks as a result, which fits with the outcome here just fine.

 

[Batgirl0202]

It's amazing how much I'm looking forward to seeing the Netflix shows on D+. I'm a completist so I prefer to see as much Marvel content as possible in one place instead of spread scattershot over multiple streaming services. It's probably psychological but I feel the same level of anticipation as I would feel for brand new shows...

As for Iron Fist, I would like to see him in the MCU because he's a personal favorite of mine. Having said that, a recast and reimaging is definitely in order. I understand budgetary constraints so I don't wanna dump too much on Netflix. However, K'un-Lun should be a place of wonder, similar to Atlantis, Wakanda, and Asgard. I'd like to see it done justice with more of a Disney budget...

As for race swapping, this is one case where I don't mind seeing a white guy in the role. The entire hook of the character after all was how an orphaned white kid was able to become an expert in the martial arts, which was considered relatively subversive in the Bruce Lee era. It's a large part of what makes the character unique.

Just because he's a master of martial arts doesn't mean he automatically needs to be Asian, which to me would be a form of racial shorthand through stereotype (hides under bed).

 

[Spider-Fan]

Another lingering question I have is how much Iron Fist stuff did Feige want to do, but he put it in Shang-Chi instead. We also have a secret mystical city and a lot of similar elements there. So how much Iron Fist lore do they actually even want to cover at this point? Who knows at this point

 

[Dr. Evil]

I thought Kingpin was fine in Hawkeye

Same. The only thing I questioned was his Hawaiian shirt, but since it came from the comics, that went away fast.

 

[Dr. Evil]

So I finally got around to seeing both Runaways and Cloak and Dagger, both of whom are related to the Defenders Universe because the main cop in Cloak and Dagger once worked in New York and name dropped Misty Knight and there were Cloak and Dagger/Runaways crossover episodes. I liked that the settings for both shows did not take place in New York for once, so that was a positive for both shows. Runaways was Los Angeles and Cloak and Dagger was New Orleans and at the end of their series, it looked like Cloak and Dagger were headed to the West Coast. Between the two shows, I thought Cloak and Dagger was the better show. I wasn't a big fan of the adults in Runaways and the kids were okay. And also, out of the evil females who use magic, I like Agatha better than Morgan Le Fay and I already like Wanda. Out of all of the characters who use magic in the MCU, I think Morgan Le Fay is the worst of them all, maybe because I never saw Liz Hurley as a good actress at all.

I think we'll see Punisher show up in the MCU though before we see C&D and the Runaways return. Later on I will have an opinion on the kids of the Runaways.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Krysten is looking very Jessica nowadays. Probably means nothing, but still might interest people here.

 

[henzINNIT]

Just because he's a master of martial arts doesn't mean he automatically needs to be Asian, which to me would be a form of racial shorthand through stereotype (hides under bed).

Yeah it's peculiar. Danny being white has some white saviour baggage, but the solution of making the martial arts expert asian instead is problematic in its own way.

I don't know if he had the acting skills but Lewis Tan lobbied for the role and perhaps he would have been a good choice. He is of mixed heritage, maybe that is a more interesting take on Danny which adds to the character's sense of being between places both in NY and in the mystical land. Most importantly Tan is a martial artist. That would have been where I started. Get someone who can fight.

 

[Batgirl0202]

Yeah it's peculiar. Danny being white has some white saviour baggage, but the solution of making the martial arts expert asian instead is problematic in its own way.

I don't know if he had the acting skills but Lewis Tan lobbied for the role and perhaps he would have been a good choice. He is of mixed heritage, maybe that is a more interesting take on Danny which adds to the character's sense of being between places both in NY and in the mystical land. Most importantly Tan is a martial artist. That would have been where I started. Get someone who can fight.

Good points. It's also easy to forget what a progressive character Danny Rand was in the '70s.

While Peter Parker was busy dating blondes and redheads, Iron Fist was romancing Misty Knight. That might not seem like much in 2022, but it was relatively groundbreaking 50 years ago...

A mixed heritage actor would work for sure. Good metaphor for the character, especially one torn between his birth and adopted legacies.

 

[henzINNIT]

Good points. It's also easy to forget what a progressive character Danny Rand was in the '70s.

While Peter Parker was busy dating blondes and redheads, Iron Fist was romancing Misty Knight. That might not seem like much in 2022, but it was relatively groundbreaking 50 years ago...

A mixed heritage actor would work for sure. Good metaphor for the character, especially one torn between his birth and adopted legacies.

Yeah true. I'm low-key rooting for Finn Jones to get a shot of redemption I think. I've never been convinced he was to blame. Danny was already being course-corrected in the shows, and it would be quite easy to reintroduce the character in a more likeable manner. Every weird choice the show made, and everything it omitted for budget reasons is now a fresh opportunity to seize. Just show him fighting the dragon and you've successfully relaunched Danny Rand.

 

[Batgirl0202]

Yeah true. I'm low-key rooting for Finn Jones to get a shot of redemption I think. I've never been convinced he was to blame. Danny was already being course-corrected in the shows, and it would be quite easy to reintroduce the character in a more likeable manner. Every weird choice the show made, and everything it omitted for budget reasons is now a fresh opportunity to seize. Just show him fighting the dragon and you've successfully relaunched Danny Rand.

I agree, it's hardly fair to lay the failure of the show entirely on Finn. The writing and directing were both flat, and the decision to focus on so much corporate drama during the first season was bizarre.

The second season was definitely an improvement bit I feel so much more could be done with the character, especially if a Heroes for Hire approach were taken. Having said that, an actor who can convincingly portray a true master of the martial arts might be a better choice. Finn was great in GOT but I never really bought him as Danny Rand...

 

[henzINNIT]

I agree, it's hardly fair to lay the failure of the show entirely on Finn. The writing and directing were both flat, and the decision to focus on so much corporate drama during the first season was bizarre.

The second season was definitely an improvement bit I feel so much more could be done with the character, especially if a Heroes for Hire approach were taken. Having said that, an actor who can convincingly portray a true master of the martial arts might be a better choice. Finn was great in GOT but I never really bought him as Danny Rand...

An already experienced martial artist would be the right call, but if Finn Jones was up for training I'm sure he could do just fine too. There's no way the TV series had the time or resources to get Jones looking like a master, but looking at how shredded the average MCU actor seems to get, he'd have a much better shot with Disney money behind the production.

Heroes for Hire could be a lot of fun. I'd be all for it.

 

[metaphysician]

Another lingering question I have is how much Iron Fist stuff did Feige want to do, but he put it in Shang-Chi instead. We also have a secret mystical city and a lot of similar elements there. So how much Iron Fist lore do they actually even want to cover at this point? Who knows at this point

Eh, I'd say very little if anything is foreclosed. Ta-Lo isn't Kun-Lun, and part of the Iron Fist mythos is that there are multiple "Capital Cities of Heaven". The only thing Shang-Chi implies is that, one, Ta-Lo is one of those "cities", and two, "city" in this case probably is more like "monastery with outlying villages" rather than "metropolis".

 

[Spider-Fan]

Eh, I'd say very little if anything is foreclosed. Ta-Lo isn't Kun-Lun, and part of the Iron Fist mythos is that there are multiple "Capital Cities of Heaven". The only thing Shang-Chi implies is that, one, Ta-Lo is one of those "cities", and two, "city" in this case probably is more like "monastery with outlying villages" rather than "metropolis".

Right, but there is a been there done that feel to it. Even if you call the cities something different, there are still similarities that make it feel like the same ground

 

[Batgirl0202]

An already experienced martial artist would be the right call, but if Finn Jones was up for training I'm sure he could do just fine too. There's no way the TV series had the time or resources to get Jones looking like a master, but looking at how shredded the average MCU actor seems to get, he'd have a much better shot with Disney money behind the production.

Heroes for Hire could be a lot of fun. I'd be all for it.

Oh I'm not completely opposed to the idea of Finn returning. He's a solid enough actor and he's had plenty of time to digest the general critical consensus regarding his performance.

A bit more training, a higher budget, a bit more stoicism, and he could become the definite Iron Fist. The question is, will he get that chance?

I'm thinking Heroes For Hire is probably our best chance of seeing more of this particular version of the character...

 

[SirStrangefolk]

A new Marvel Studios LLC called "Blind Faith Productions LLC" was recently formed for an unknown project:

New Evidence May Point To A Daredevil MCU Project In Development - Murphy's Multiverse

Charlie Cox says the continuation of his Daredevil isn't directly following up from season 3 but will be slightly reimagined (thus implying that he has a pretty good idea of Matt's future appearances in the MCU at this point):