Superman Returns Kevin Smith's experience with Superman (Returns)

[Kane]

It (IMO) is illogical to have Jason be Richard's son... Honestly, what is the point? Is Supes going to destory the family for the sake of being with Lois? Are they just going to kill off Marsden? It would be very cliche. The kid has to be Clark's, it just doesn't make sense otherwise. There are more reasons for Jason being Clark's then Richards in terms of storytelling.

Except Superman doesnt end up with Lois in the end of SR.

 

[Michael Corleone]

I've addressed all of this before. Feel free to look up the thread in Misc Film about his comments on Episode 3. I'm not really up for debating how Kevin Smith has changed, sold out, whatever you want to call it...but feel free to look up my past arguments.

I wasnt asking you to address it. Just stating the obvious.

 

[MoreCowbell]

ITs still running out on her with a kid, whether or not he knew it.



If I'm not mistaken, they made a point of showing Jason play piano and giving Luthor's yacht or where ever Lois and the kid are kept a piano...hmm...seems like foreshadowing and a plot device to me.

Bryan Singer: I don't think I've ever read a Superman comic.

Please forgive me for not trusting that he knows what he is doing.[/quote]

That's what humanizes him though... He makes mistakes. In this case a mistake that "could" (we know it won't) cost him Lois and a chance at a REAL life. A chance for family, something (speculation on my part) that Clark only dreams of having. He screwed it up, big time. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I feel because he didn't know it changes things, but none the less it was his mistake. Maybe you're right about the foreshadowing. I really hope not. We'll see in 26 days I guess. The writers did however read the comics, so... Bryan really never read the X-men comics and he knew the story well enough to make two really great X-films.

 

[Pickle-El]

ITs still running out on her with a kid, whether or not he knew it.

Forrest Gump...damn deadbeat father too I suppose.

If I'm not mistaken, they made a point of showing Jason play piano and giving Luthor's yacht or where ever Lois and the kid are kept a piano...hmm...seems like foreshadowing and a plot device to me.

So we don't know anymore than you do about the final cut...correct?

Bryan Singer: I don't think I've ever read a Superman comic.

Neither did Donner. His film is considered a slice of American Cinema History. In fact, Singer only saw episodes of the X-Men cartoon...turns out he did okay with those two films, I've heard.

Please forgive me for not trusting that he knows what he is doing.

You mean like not knowing how to hand FOX the Phoenix Saga and the Mutant 'War' on a grand silver platter before he left to complete the trilogy?.....If Singer only knew how to handle comic book properties. Lord knows why anyone would trust this rookie with a 200 million dollar budget.

 

[Matt]

Bryan Singer: I don't think I've ever read a Superman comic.

Please forgive me for not trusting that he knows what he is doing.

That's what humanizes him though... He makes mistakes. In this case a mistake that "could" (we know it won't) cost him Lois and a chance at a REAL life. A chance for family, something (speculation on my part) that Clark only dreams of having. He screwed it up, big time. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I feel because he didn't know it changes things, but none the less it was his mistake. Maybe you're right about the foreshadowing. I really hope not. We'll see in 26 days I guess. The writers did however read the comics, so... Bryan really never read the X-men comics and he knew the story well enough to make two really great X-films.[/QUOTE]

Singer's X-men film's are overrated, and I think we can agree there are far more worthier Superman stories to tell then him "losing and finding his family". It sounds like a cheesey romantic comedy starring Nic Cage. Not a Superman movie.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Smith wrote a very good script under the circumstances.

You know, photos exist of Cage in the Lives! costume(s). I wonder if we'll ever get to see them. until then, we'll have to make do with such pctures as this;

 

[Matt]

Forrest Gump...damn deadbeat father too I suppose.

Are you comparing Superman to a mentally ******ed man?

So we don't know anymore than you do about the final cut...correct?

Nope.

Neither did Donner. His film is considered a slice of American Cinema History. In fact, Singer only saw episodes of the X-Men cartoon...turns out he did okay with those two films, I've heard.



You mean like not knowing how to hand FOX the Phoenix Saga and the Mutant 'War' on a grand silver platter before he left to complete the trilogy?.....If Singer only knew how to handle comic book properties.

Donner's films have aged horribly and Singer knew how to handle X-men great if you mean making Wolverine the movie.

 

[StarvingArtist]

No, I don't really find it immoral. My two nephews were born of wedlock. I do find something wrong with Superman knocking up Lois than running off for 7 years.

How can you be so sure that's what he does? I mean...does that even make any sense?

 

[Matt]

You know, photos exist of Cage in the Lives! costume(s). I wonder if we'll ever get to see them.

Hehe, Roegele, my favorite part of having you on these boards is you always pop in at the right time with random movie knowledge

 

[Matt]

How can you be so sure that's what he does? I mean...does that even make any sense?

If the kid is his, that is exactly what he did.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Are you comparing Superman to a mentally ******ed man?

lol I'm sorry but if you're calling him mentally ******ed....you missed the point of the movie.

 

[Kane]

How can you be so sure that's what he does? I mean...does that even make any sense?

Because he loves to jump to conclusions. I hope hes ready to admit that hes wrong if he is. Theres definately the possibility.

 

[MoreCowbell]

Except Superman doesnt end up with Lois in the end of SR.

But he will sooner or later (probably #3 with the sequel to SR ending with them being together). It's the one thing you can't surpirise people with... Lois and Clark are going to find a way. The kid is just a plot point in SR to put Lois and Clark on hold, IMO. And when they do find a way to be together, they'll set right what Superman did wrong and become a family. History will repeat itself with Clark taking Jonathon's role (as a dad).

 

[Matt]

lol I'm sorry but if you're calling him mentally ******ed....you missed the point of the movie.

The point of the movie was Forrest WAS mentally ******ed yet in many ways smarter and more fortunate than the people around him.

 

[Michael Corleone]

If the kid is his, that is exactly what he did.

Because the blame would fall on him even though he had no idea?

 

[Matt]

Because he loves to jump to conclusions. I hope hes ready to admit that hes wrong if he is. Theres definately the possibility.

I will admit I'm wrong, but the thing is, people like you NEED this movie to be good so much, that even if it is watching paint dry on a screen for 2 hours you would not admit it to be bad.

 

[Matt]

Because the blame would fall on him even though he had no idea?

Knowingly or not, he still left the kid without his father for 7 years...can you really justify that?

 

[Michael Corleone]

The point of the movie was Forrest WAS mentally ******ed yet in many ways smarter and more fortunate than the people around him.

Well the way I see it is that other people SAW him as mentally ******ed when in fact he wasnt. However, I'm not going to argue your point...you take it as you see it.

 

[Nightwing1977]

Bryan Singer: I don't think I've ever read a Superman comic.

Please forgive me for not trusting that he knows what he is doing.

LMAO!! I love how people are jumping at the gun on thinking Singer is going to screw it up because he's not a comic book fan. You don't have to be a damn comic book fan to make a good comic book movie. It's how you understand the characters & treat it like how the characters should been. Singer wasn't even a fan of the X-Men comic books & many X-fans praise him for his 2 X-Men films. Please give that "He's not a comic book fan, so he going to screw the movie up" a rest. It just an excuse you like to use when you hate what you see from SR.

 

[Barry Allen]

None of it is any more outrageous or disloyal than Supes and Lois having an illigitment child.

Hasn't it already been established that the father is Richard White. And even if the child was from Clark, that's equal to having NO costume & NO flying?

 

[Michael Corleone]

Knowingly or not, he still left the kid without his father for 7 years...can you really justify that?

In all honesty yes. If he had no idea there was a child you cannot blame him. What would define his morality would be how he reacted to finding out.

 

[Matt]

Well the way I see it is that other people SAW him as mentally ******ed when in fact he wasnt. However, I'm not going to argue your point...you take it as you see it.

Huh? Forrest clearly was not right in the head.

 

[Kane]

But he will sooner or later (probably #3 with the sequel to SR ending with them being together). It's the one thing you can't surpirise people with... Lois and Clark are going to find a way. The kid is just a plot point in SR to put Lois and Clark on hold, IMO. And when they do find a way to be together, they'll set right what Superman did wrong and become a family. History will repeat itself with Clark taking Jonathon's role (as a dad).

Possibly. I think Richard and Lois will be no more in the sequel, something will happen with Richard.

But I think overtime, Superman and Lois will somehow end up together....in the end.

Predictable? Yes....but Superman + Lois always end up together.

And yes, Jason and Richard are clearly elements in the film (obstacles) for superman to overcome.

Finally, Jason may remain forever.

Singer said hes leaving Jason as a reminder/consequence to Superman of his absence. Something that always reminds him of his decision to leave and something he must overcome.

I could see Jason White remaining, growing into a teen...having adventures with teen Supergirl etc....

Eventually I'd love for the Superman films to END with Superman and Lois finally having a child of their own...

That would likely be the ultimate end to the movie saga.

 

[Pickle-El]

Are you comparing Superman to a mentally ******ed man?

Similar situation. Still the same premise.....the guy didn't know he had a kid (assumming it's Supes). So they're automatically evil and cowards for not knowing? Seems pretty harsh to me.

Nope.

Alrighty then. I could sceam and shout that Singer is just smarter than fanboys...and is tricking you and I. (though of course, ol' Pickle would just say that to get someone to call him a Singer follower)

Donner's films have aged horribly

The effects in S:TM don't look so hot anymore..then again, if George Lucas hadn't released 20 updated SFX versions of the Star Wars Trilogy, you'd probably be saying the same thing about that as well. But, you could never say that Christopher Reeve's interpretation of the character has aged horribly.....could you? Now there's the optimist in me!

and Singer knew how to handle X-men great if you mean making Wolverine the movie.

Yet, they they are very well received....hmmm. I guess some people out there actually enjoyed the movies that way. (Even X3) He's the most popular mainstream X-Man. Though, that debate is for another forum.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Huh? Forrest clearly was not right in the head.

eh from your viewpoint ok. But it really is something that can be debated back and forth.