Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut

[aaron]

Does anyone have this? How much does it improve the theatrical, the movie seemed choppy.

 

[HoldMyDrink]

I think the improvements are pretty well summarized here. I really want to see this.


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241488&highlight=kingdom+heaven

 

[Hunter Rider]

I'm glad soemone made this thread as i had a similar question,i never saw the movie at the cinema and then i bought the theatrical DVD but never watched it and just traded it in when i heard how much the Directors cut improved the overall film....i hope i made the right choice

 

[Iceman]

Damn. I bought the original version a while ago and haven't watched it yet (even at the cinema). They always bring out better versions as soon as I buy anything.

 

[aaron]

I think the improvements are pretty well summarized here. I really want to see this.


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241488&highlight=kingdom+heaven

Thanks, Im gonna buy it straight away

 

[aaron]

Damn. I bought the original version a while ago and haven't watched it yet (even at the cinema). They always bring out better versions as soon as I buy anything.

Lol same here

 

[Agentsands77]

I remember watching the theatrical cut and being entirely unimpressed - it was an uneven, boring, incomplete film that I had no interest in seeing ever again. But then I heard about how Scott had been forced by Fox to chop out a ton of material from his film and I was terribly intrigued.

The director's cut is something of a masterpiece. The 45 minutes of footage that is restored to the film enhances it - Scott, because of the studio constraints, had to cut out absolutely crucial material. KINGDOM OF HEAVEN is a film that deserves a lot more respect than it got, and it will always go down as one of the great cinematic crimes that such a terrific film was so horribly butchered in its theatrical release.

 

[aaron]

All goes back to Tom Rothman at Fox

 

[Hunter Rider]

All goes back to Tom Rothman at Fox

 

[Obsidian]

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9031650&postcount=152

my review

the director's cut improves greatly on the theatrical cut..the director's cut fills in the plot holes from the theatrical cut and also adds much needed character development..some quick scenes i felt were unnecessary, but as a whole, i think it's a great epic

and regardless of what people say, Orlando Bloom is solid in his role as Balian

 

[aaron]

Nice ^

I thought Bloom was good

 

[Agentsands77]

Orlando Bloom is still fairly wooden, but works okay as Balian, mostly because the role doesn't demand too much of him. The film has a strong enough cast otherwise that it really pulls through.

 

[aaron]

The elders really shine in it, Neeson, Thewlis, Irons

 

[Agentsands77]

The elders really shine in it, Neeson, Thewlis, Irons

Indeed, and I find Eva Green absolutely captivating in her role (IMO, Sibylla is the most striking character from the film, which makes it even tragic that her role was so butchered in the theatrical cut). Edward Norton's role as the King is also worth a mention.

 

[PowersOfMind]

Anybody who hasnt seen this film I would tell then to go straight to the director's cut. How Ridley Scott let Fox force him to cut any part of this film baffles me. Im sure by some contract he has his liabilities but man did those cut kill the film. Every scene is vital. I dont care what anyone says about MR. Bloom, in KOH he deliever his best performance, espescially since he had to do so much. Eva Green blew me away, her whole story was just so sad. All the other supporting cast were awesome Irons, Neeson(who I've met) and Norton as King Baldwin just bring so much to the film. Ridley has definitely done it again.

 

[HoldMyDrink]

Alright, you guys have convinced me. I picked up the Director's Cut at Best Buy today. Going to go watch it right now.

 

[Movies205]

You should check out the Reviews thread, there's 2 reviews on it in there:
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234055

Here's one I've been procrastinating getting around to:

Kingdom of Heaven: THE DIRECTOR'S CUT
Directed by Ridley Scott
9/10

I enjoy a good semi-historical Hollywood epic. I enjoy them more when they have depth and relavence and challenge the viewer. So the prospect of Ridley Scott, father of the gereatest ancient world swords and sandals epic of our time (Gladiator) was adapting a movie about the struggle for Jerusalem during the Crusades I was of course intruged and hopeful. The trailer promised a large and immersive epic that would chllanege its viewer.

Cut to the May following the trailer and I saw it in theaters on opening day. It was a decent action movie but felt souless and boring at times (the story meandered and was too fast to let the characters or their relationships breathe but too slow to get to the point). It was a beautiful movie with some impressive if a bit wasted performances that led me to give it a 7/10 on a merciful note. I enjoyed renting it but I never really had much care for the film after that.

Then I saw the director's cut last month. This is the movie Ridley Scott WANTED to make and should have been found in theaters last May. I now realize Fox truncated and butchered Scott's impressively massive (yet flawed) epic into a mindless action movie with scraps of greatness left in.

The movie opens the same as the previous cut with a suicide's burial at a crossroads in 1184 France. Yet there are already changes at the same time. The scene is longer with some development and character building. We get time to experience the harshness of this world and to be slowly drawn into it instead of just thrown in confused and bewildered. In the first 20 minutes of the film we learn new material such as the priest that antagonizes BAlian (Orlando Bloom) is none other than his jealous yet somewhat snakishely caring brother played excellently by Michael Sheen. Goddfrey returns (Liam Neeson) to find his elder brother and nephew plotting his murder as to claim his deeds in Jerusalem (finally the ambush becomes clear and is no longer random) and we understand Balian for more. He is not just a simple blacksmith niaeve to the world. He has fought before, he has been in warfare and also was an engineer for his lord's war and has a weary sense already and is a very smart (but broken man as he begins in prison, sent there by his own brother because his wife committed suicide) and his reason for doing his things finally make sense. Not to mention it makes more sense than an archetect/engineer and soldier could jump to knight and defender of Jerusalem in three years much easier than a lowly blacksmith just given a sword and title from pop before jumping into the fold.

The performances all around are more nuanced here though. The great philsopher king played brilliantly by Edward Norton is under much greater pressure as it becomes clear his kingdom is on the verge of civil war within as well as the threat of Saladdin. Baldwin IV's actions are more complex as are the supporting characters who in the TC seemed stock good guys are now nuanced and have more dichotemy. Jeremy Irons seems less sure and more cynical and perhaps ready to throw in the towl from the very start and has no trouble abandoning the kingdom and being believable.

Perhaps the greatest benefactor of hte extended cut is Eva Green as Sybilla. While she seemed like some flousy who was just there so Orlando Bloom had someone to screw, here she is a very dark character. We are not sure if she loves Balian or is using him to protect her power as she could get rid of her war mongering and power hungry husband, the incompentant Guy de Lugsinan. It is less clear as she has ambition and just not love and she also has a son, Baldwin V. But he is in line to be king and her regent, but when he contracts leporacy like his uncle (Edward Norton)....well it becomes very moving and just pulls you into this sprawling tale.

And it is sprawling. At 3 hours and 14 minutes it does take its time and is a slow build up. But now it makes sense we are being takekn on a journey through this world and into Ridley Scott's depiction and idea of what the warfare in God's name and the battle over Jerusalem and the Holy Lands over the last thousand years have boiled down to. It has its flaws still, there are several scenes that could have been cut and there is a good 10 minute portion of the film that feels slow and unfocused (which was in the theatrical cut as well) but on the whole it works. It is a world we slowly grow to become enthralled by and is a larger picture and canvas of the world and how men interact than just one man's journey to find redemption (though it is certainly the main point, it allows the audience to divuge in subplots that develop the story if not the main character).

This is the movie that the trailer promised. A movie about paradise lost and how men fail to live together throughout history when there should be peace. It is a very complex issue dealt with in broad strokes with some historical (note I used the word "some" and not "all") as opposed to just listing off facts. The progmatic beheadings on both sides and killings carry weight and there is evil on both sides. Neither side of the conflict is good or evil but both have validity and no claim whatsoever. The Muslims are well portrayed but they have their fanaticals too and the word of God (embodied by Scott with David Thewlis as the almost mystical Hospitaller) is of course ignored by everyone but balian and this world's story never ends because it continues today. It is a work of art and one that was long overdue of being given its justice and its due. While it is not Gladiator or Braveheart, it does not try to be. It also goes for a much more complex and intelligent world of aspirations than either film and is probably the smartest of the three (even if it never quite goes as high as Monahan and Scott had dreamed). It may not be the best but it is the sort of movie that you learn more about the characters the more you watch because finally they are more than cardboard stand-ins in this version.

Proof again you don't screw with the director's vision. Especially when his vision is such a good and layered movie.

Quick Review of Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut:

I must say, after watching the nearly 3 and 1/2 hour epic, that this is the film I had wanted to see in theatres in May of 2005, but FOX butchered it in order for more screenings to occur, which equals more money. Their plan backfired and here we are, a year later and with a new edition of the film as the director intended. While the theatrical cut of KOH was a beautiful looking film, it lacked characterization and depth. This is resolved in the director's cut. The added footage gives more weight to some roles, especially Eva Green's character, Sybilla. Sybilla is no longer the flirtatious adulteress we saw in the theatrical cut who cut her hair for some odd reason. In the director's cut, she is a much more tortured soul whose son(who was missing entirely from the theatrical cut) plays an integral part in Sybilla's life. With this additional footage, it becomes evident that Sybilla is a much more stronger character than the other women we've seen in the recent sword-and-sandal epics. Some quick scenes did not really add much to the story, like the scene with Guy de Lusignan and Sybilla's handmaiden. Those flaws did not bother me too much because I was engrossed in the story. And it is quite a compelling story. Some dialogue is changed in order to flow with the script. It is now understandable why Godfrey and his band of knights were attacked in the forrest. It makes sense on how Balian is a good strategist and fighter. So many questions that you had after the theatrical cut will be answered in the director's cut. Had I seen this film last year, it would've been on my Top 10 list. So now I feel the need to put it on my Top 10 list for 2006 because it is that good of a film. It's not only entertaining, but delves deep into issues of religion, redemption, tolerance, fanatacism, and finally euthanasia. So, despite some flaws here and there, I give it a 10.

 

[Agentsands77]

Alright, you guys have convinced me. I picked up the Director's Cut at Best Buy today. Going to go watch it right now.

Good man.

 

[aaron]

Theatrical - 3/5
Director's Cut - 5/5

 

[Balian]

I thought the theatre release was good, but the director's cut is amazing.

 

[Edward Brock]

I've been wanting to watch this for a while. The TC was quite disapointing.

 

[Armand Z Trip]

My review, I love this movie.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231757&page=2&highlight=Kingdom+Heaven

A good film just got a lot better. I watched the TR as a rental because my wife ordered it from Netflix and I thought it was cool. It was like a reunion, Bloom is a hero, Liam is a mentor, Marton is a villain. Now the guy who started this whole director’s cut thing with Blade Runner gets another go round, and thank God, because he’s turned a good movie into an epic.

Critics are always asking for something different and when they get it they hate it. I’ve read a few of the reviews of the theatrical release, either middling or negative, and I could not disagree more with their main attack points on this movie. Balian is not interesting or a great hero, no ******* **** Sherlock! He is a pathetic puppy dog eyed Silent Bob. You know why? His wife and son are dead. Now in most movies you can say to the hero, lets go on an adventure, let’s do a heist or here have a donut, and that’s it, he is a smiling flawless hero again. Not this guy. To me the fact that he is a pathetic loser ****e who only wants forgiveness for his sins makes him an interesting character. He is definitely not a wise old tough guy. He was like Kevin Costner in the Untouchables or Kyle McLachlan in Twin Peaks, or Keanu Reeves in the Matrix trilogy, we are fighting evil with…this guy? Oh boy are we screwed.

The whole film leads to a surrender, Balian surrenders Jerusalem, **** film critics are intelligent! Why aren’t these guys working on cancer research or world hunger? The surrender of Jerusalem actually happened. Its not like he ran out to meet the first rider with a white flag, he rigged up Jerusalem with an impeccable defense and forced Saladin to offer terms ( I love that scene where Balian visits Tiberius and picks up that model of a siege tower, and he turns it over and he has it locked in his mind, what it is and how to beat it, engineering to the rescue). To Balian the women and children’s lives were more important than stones, what an *******. And this viewpoint that trade was more important than religion for Europe turning to the holy land? It was the dark ages, there was a mini ice age, and people were eating children. I do not find it inconceivable that the Middle East was the new world three hundred years before the new world. Trade, religion, politics, these things are all mixed together, hey hey that’s life, that’s what people say, flying high in April, shot down in May…

The battles are not involving, they are pretty but we are not involved. I’ve seen lots of battle scenes but I’ve never seen anything like Balian riding out against Nasir’s advance force to protect Kerak. The horizontal column becomes a vertical column that becomes the wings of a bird. I thought that was awesome and not an Orc, Ogre or inspirational speech in sight, we are riding into certain death, cool let’s go. The dark skinned people of another religion are NOT the bad guys! Deal with it. The Christians are all evil, wrong; Godfrey, King Baldwin IV, the Hospitaller, Tiberius, Balian all good, Guy and Reynard bad, Templars bad. I can accept Templars bad, the Pope fired ‘em all.

I admire the philosophy of the film. I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves. A King may move a man, a father may claim a son, but remember that even when those who move you be Kings, or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before God, you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do thus." Or that, "Virtue was not convenient at the time." This will not suffice. Remember that. You are not what you were born, but what you have it in yourself to be. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee (God will understand us burning the bodies says Balian, how many battles did God win for our people before I came along asks Saladin). Speak the truth, always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless. Do no wrong. That is your oath. Who is a man who does not make the world better? A better world than has ever been seen. A kingdom of conscience. A kingdom of heaven.

In movies either highbrow (Unforgiven) or lowbrow (Stargate) it is killing and violence that brings the hero back to life. For Balian it is taking care of his people, bringing justice and water to Ibelin (and boning the rather married Sybilla, I didn’t say he was a saint). That really spoke to me (the caring part, not boning Sybilla, well maybe a little), any idiot with two cents and a pulse can kill, to take responsibility for your actions, to take care of your lands and your people, that is being a man. Politics isn’t about faith and ideology, its about water, roads, trade, health.

There is this spoken word bit on the song Refuge on the Live at Stubbs album by Matishayu (a Hasidic Jewish rapper from Crown Heights, Brooklyn who says the word Jerusalem A LOT), we don’t know what a leader is, what a king is today. The King was his people, when they felt pain; he felt pain; he was a general on the front lines who would fight and die for his people, he was a warrior, a provider, a poet for his people. Like in Braveheart, noble? What is it to be noble? Taking care of your people, not having a title.

Tiberius and King Baldwin IV (KB4 to his friends) are certainly dignified and regal, but they are playing a political game, not ruling with justice, not ruling from conscience. Saladin promised he would take Jerusalem but it was these guys hemming and hawing that made it possible. Reynald finds the idea of a kingdom of heaven laughable, KB4 and Tiberius snicker when Balian tells them the advice of his father was to be a perfect knight. Without faith and nobility a knight is just a sword for hire, a child’s toy.

Tiberius is like, Oh Reynard if you were not protected by your title, screw his title kill him! KB4 is like, Balian, protect the road, look out for the Muslims and Jews, hey KB4, kill Reynald and Guy, it’ll be a lot easier. As soon as Nasir’s advance force rode on Kerak they should have come to Reynald’s head on a spike in the middle of the road, they should have seen this hideous monster (Brendan Gleeson, excellent as always, is I Went Down ever going to be released on DVD?) reduced to a vulture happy meal. When Saladin comes for Jerusalem Tiberius says, I’m bailin’ Balian, I’m off on the road to Cyprus. Thanks dude, appreciate it. KB4, Sybilla and Tiberius ask Balian to kill Guy! We don’t have to do ****, we have a hero! What they have is a perfect knight, he ain’t gonna go for it, not now, not ever. Sybilla you can’t spare a little ear poison for this arrogant homicidal loser? I thought it was great that when Saladin suggests Nasir should of killed Balian, Nasir says maybe I should have had a different teacher; virtue is not a matter of convenience.

The visuals of this film are truly amazing, from the snow at twilight in the Spain substituting for France village to sprays of blood on the battlefield. Ridley Scott knows what works and what doesn’t with horses, swords, arrows, battles, entrances and monologues. It is like everything he has ever learned is in this movie. It is a visual splendor. The middle eastern parts, are played by actors from the middle east! Wow! That’s a new one! Sybilla is a woman not a girl, I am so sick of all these movies with these little girls pretending to be women.

Did I call Balian a ****e earlier? The director’s cut lets us see that his half brother, the bishop and the local lord are pimpin’ Balian like a two ruble ****e in Minsk. The extra footage of Balian in jail, reminiscing over his wife, of Godfrey having flashbacks to his youth, Godfrey and the Hospitaller eating dinner with the local Lord; pretty much everybody is related in some way, they all expand on the characters and give them so much more depth. Sybilla is a woman not a girl, I am so sick of all these modern movies with these little girls pretending to be women. The subplot of Sybilla’s son totally severed any connection she had to the fair maiden princess stereotype. She has committed the ultimate crime, the ultimate sin, but she did it out of love, a love that cost her Jerusalem. She is so damaged it makes sense her and Balian are together. The final fight with Balian and Guy shows that even at the very end Balian will not sacrifice his principles. I really wanted Balian to split open Guys head like melon, give him a Godfrey special, but I guess that’s virtue. This is a truly epic and challenging film and thank you for the recommendation Obsidian.