Kirkman's Manifesto

I'm sorry, I may be missing something....

But isn't that was Image was created for?
 
Yeah, but for a lot of folks it still hasn't managed to shake off that old Rob Liefeld/Todd MacFarlane vibe, even with Kirkman on board. I do think he's right, though--I'd love to see that particular vision of the industry come around.
 
Interesting.....but it will never work. Not unless he's able to get all the big name writers together to up and leave the Big 2 like the Image Founders did. Bendis ain't going nowhere. He's likely to be EIC when Joe Q leaves.
 
I just wanna see some **** thrown down. I would like to see a new connected universe at Image (like when they began, but I believe that's what Image United is about) and I'd really like to see books that are openly accessible to everyone. Also I wish the big two would stop trying to change the status quo. Can't I just have Batman and Robin stop Joker's plan without it being realized that the Joker is actually Thomas Wayne's half brother? I just wanna read a good story not bogged down by 50+ years of continuity.
 
That....that i don't care about. I do care about the event mad on that the big two seem to have. Very few books that seem to be off on their own doing their own thing anymore without having to tie in to some big super duper status quo changing event that will be forgotten for a bigger one in two or three years. I like history, but how about some simple stand alone stories, and save the huge events for like every ten years or something. The back tracking on characters is another big draw back. At least with creator owned stuff there is character development that lasts. Character Development at the big two is a joke at this point. I think Kirkman is right.....but.....it'll never happen.
 
I just wanna see some **** thrown down. I would like to see a new connected universe at Image (like when they began, but I believe that's what Image United is about) and I'd really like to see books that are openly accessible to everyone. Also I wish the big two would stop trying to change the status quo. Can't I just have Batman and Robin stop Joker's plan without it being realized that the Joker is actually Thomas Wayne's half brother? I just wanna read a good story not bogged down by 50+ years of continuity.

One of the reasons you have issues with continuity, and huge crossovers, and exactly what you're talking about is BECAUSE they are shared universes. If Image becomes one huge shared universe, it will ruin everything they have done.

I like how it is now, with each writer pretty much creating his own universe. I mean, Kirkman ALONE has created 3 solid super-hero books, but probably close to 100 characters in them who I would love to see more of. Now, if they try and integrate, for example, Spawn into those books...I may have to kill Kirkman.

Out of respect....in order to preserve his memory.
 
Yeah. Shared Universes are a no go for Creator owned stuff. Which is why Image was in the state it was in for all those years after the 90's boom.
 
PLUS, in my opinion, the variety was very limited. The hope in many people eyes was that a creator-owned company would be able to let the creators do what they wanted. Therefore, it was possible to have a multitude of different projects and types of comics.

And then the whole first round was just a stream of gritty anti-heroes. Yay 90s!

I personally don't think it was until recently that Image has lived up to its possibilities.
 
OK I see your points now and I'm agreeing with you.

Like Anubis said I'm so tired of event comics. It's non stop.

Marvel: House of M>Decimation>The Other>Civil War>World War Hulk>Messiah Complex>Secret Invasion
DC: Identity Crisis>Infinity Crisis>Infinite Crisis>52>Countdown>Final Crisis

It's really nuts.

The plus side for shared universes are the crossover possibilities but this also turns into event comics. I love seeing Savage Dragon appear in Invincible, but I don't wanna have to buy an issue of Savage Dragon to get the full story.
 
Odin's Fury said:
PLUS, in my opinion, the variety was very limited. The hope in many people eyes was that a creator-owned company would be able to let the creators do what they wanted. Therefore, it was possible to have a multitude of different projects and types of comics.

And then the whole first round was just a stream of gritty anti-heroes. Yay 90s!

I personally don't think it was until recently that Image has lived up to its possibilities.

The problem was it was centered around the artists. This on the other hand, would be centered around the writers. And that would be the key difference.
 
Image does have a couple strong books though.
-Kirkman's books (I've enjoyed all three)
-Savage Dragon (done by Larsen still!)
-Spawn
-Witchblade

So there's room to expand with more ongoing series.
 
The problem was it was centered around the artists. This on the other hand, would be centered around the writers. And that would be the key difference.

VERY good point. I think those guys all wrote what they wanted to draw.

Like that's why Liefeld's characters don't have feet! It all makes sense!
 
Spawn and Witchblade? Pfft. I'd much rather they not be tied together.

Kirkman's books have however been tied to both Dynamo Five and Noble causes, as well as Firebreather and that dark wolverine looking dude whose name I forget. All those except the guy whose name I forget are great.
 
VERY good point. I think those guys all wrote what they wanted to draw.

Like that's why Liefeld's characters don't have feet! It all makes sense!


Well, to be fair, they had some talented writers working for them on some of those books. Alan Moore on Wildcats and Supreme come to mind. But just think how much better Image would have been if instead of McFarlane, Leifeld, and Lee, it was Moore, Gaimen, and Morrison?
 
Supreme with ALan Moore, I'm pretty sure, was after Liefeld left Image.

But I totally get your point.
 
Well, to be fair, they had some talented writers working for them on some of those books. Alan Moore on Wildcats and Supreme come to mind. But just think how much better Image would have been if instead of McFarlane, Leifeld, and Lee, it was Moore, Gaimen, and Morrison?
Isn't that what America's Best Comics was? Only without Gaimen and Morrison.
 
I posted this on my livejournal, and will just repost it here:

"My thoughts? He's certainly has his heart in the right place but honestly there's more than a few holes in his logic. While more original ideas and creator owned work is something that could be good for the industry, I don't see how taking top named creators off mainstream books to do only creator owned work is good for comics in the long run. Kirkman himself states that people as of right now are following the creators, not the characters. How exactly does that mean that the kids will come running and start buying Spider-Man with no-name writer and easier to follow continuity? The argument that kids don't read comics because the stories are too complex, too mature and to steeped in continuity is completely and utterly ridiculous. Why? Because kids read manga. How many volumes does Naruto have? You're telling me that those stories aren't complex and steeped in continuity? Of course they are, but kids are going every day to the store and picking up the latest volume. Getting kids to start picking up comics on a weekly basis and getting a whole new fanbase involves a lot more than just making stories easier to follow. Again, I don't see why top named creators have to leave mainstream books completely for this to be accomplished.

The fact that Kirkman believes that comic book fans will just follow any creator to anything he does is both arrogant and makes us sound like idiots IMO. Sure, I have some favorite creators, and I'll admit to following them to their books, but that doesn't mean I do it blindly. Ed Brubaker for example, I read Daredevil because he's writing it, I read Criminal because he's writing it, but I don't read his X-Men, I haven't read a single issue of his X-Men run. I don't honestly see how creators just doing creator owned work is going help the industry as a whole and as Kirkman touts, make Marvel and DC better. Maybe I'm missing something here. Frankly, I like having the option open. As a reader, why should I only be able to get Brubaker doing Criminal when I can get Brubaker doing Daredevil as well, or Captain America? Isn't America all about options dammit?!

Frankly, the whole thing comes off as a sales pitch to bring in creators to work for Image with their own stuff. Like I said, Kirkman may have his heart in the right place, but his logic needs a bit more work here. Creator owned work is fine and dandy, but the logic that somehow everyone leaving Marvel and DC to do creator owned work is going to make the industry grow, make Marvel and DC more accessible to kids, and insure the longevity of the industry is just faulty to me. Of course, maybe I just didn't get it, and I'm sure there's some people out there that will be more than happy to tell me how I just didn't get it."
 
Hmm, you make a good point there Darth.
 
Still....it would be nice to see if it would work.
 
It doesn't matter. It's not realistic in any sense.

More on this here.

Seriously, am I the only one seeing sour grapes here?
 
I have to agree that his logic is faulty on a few levels. The comicbook industry does not work like the movie or novel businesses. The core essence of the two is entirely different. Comics are about a continuing story.
 

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