Kurse!

Discussion in 'Thor: The Dark World' started by R_Hythlodeus, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. BoredGuy

    BoredGuy Chairman of the Bored

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    Yeah that is one ugly-ass costume.

    Can't wait to see what the talented costume crew behind Thor does with it!
     
    #26
  2. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    Yup, he sure is. :yay:


    Don't know why everyone's getting excited about some of the worst of 80s Marvel excesses. Kurse was created by the friggin' Beyonder, a ridiculous super-uber with a bad 80s perm who was designed purely as the guide character for Secret Wars, Marvel's early 80s version of an idealized video game before we had, you know, decent video game consoles to work with. And Kurse wound up battling and losing to the Power Pack.

    The. Frickin'. Power. Pack.

    Yup, a bunch of Saturday morning cartoon kiddies beat the crap out of the almighty Kurse.

    Hell, Kurse was even a joke in Marvel Ultimate Alliance. He paired off with Ulik in Niflheim, and your party beats Kurse down in, like, three hits average, while Ulik proves to be an actual challenge.

    Sure am glad that Surtur will wind up being the main villain in T:TDW. Kurse and Malekith are just regrettable throwaways from the bad old days of 80s Marvel.
     
    #27
  3. Chewy

    Chewy REDACTED

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    [​IMG]
     
    #28
  4. marcvader

    marcvader Lurker #1

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    Dratted child!:argh:
     
    #29
  5. metaphysician

    metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    Okay, its possible I'm misreading you, but there's so much factually wrong here that I feel obliged to respond.

    First, to say that Kurse was created by the Beyonder is *hugely* deceptive, as it overlooks the entire Malekith story arc in which he was born. Beyonder didn't make Algrim the Strong, he didn't kill him, and he didn't give him his rage. All he did was serve as the passing godbeing who revived him after he took a dive into the center of the Earth. Outside the two issues where Kurse first appeared as his new, revived self, Beyonder never appeared again.

    Second, Kurse wasn't "beaten" by the Power Pack. He was beaten by Thor and Beta Ray Bill both channeling the power of their respective hammers *into* one particular member of the Power Pack, whose power is specifically energy absorption and redirection on a rather excessive scale. This *damaged Mjolnir and Stormbreaker*, such that they actually had to be repaired.

    ( Tangentially, you do realize that the Power Pack are probably more powerful than any other kid superteam Marvel has ever had? Yes, they may be primary schoolers, but they are *powerful* primary schoolers. )

    Third, all of this happened in the Walt Simonson Thor run. Which was only the best Thor run ever, and one of the high points of 80s comics.
     
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  6. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    Yes, I'm aware he didn't create Algrim; but he created *Kurse.* There's nothing at all factually wrong with how I worded it.

    Incidentally, therein lies another huge problem with bringing Kurse to the screen. We know that Algrim is in it, and therefore Algrim will, at some point, adopt the Kurse persona with its suped-up powers and armor. And we know pretty damn well that Beyonder is not going to be part of this, so the question inevitably arises: who *does* give Kurse his powers? Certainly not Malekith, since Malekith is the one who betrays him and kills him (tries to, anyway). Not Loki, since he's likely to be under "Asgardian house arrest" of some sort, and Hiddleston seems to be limited to a smaller role this time around.

    There's clearly another *unannounced* major Thor villain at work here that will prove to be Kurse's creator, and that means that there's no way that we have a complete cast list yet.



    It's the Power Pack. There is no justification or making excuses here. Any time you get your butt beat by a bunch of fourth graders, it's not gonna look good on your supervillain resume. :oldrazz: (But for the record: everybody gets beat by the Power Pack sooner or later. Even Dr. Doom, Hulk, Zzaxxx, Galactus....it's just something of a "no ****in' way" joke continuity that "serious business" fanboys can't agree to as "real" canon; kinda like Squirrel Girl or Howard the Duck.)

    JMS had the best Thor run. :cwink: Simonson was great, but he ran the gamut from the sublime to the ridiculous....yes, he created an outstanding saga in the Twilight Sword, but he also made what a lot of fans considered to be a mockery of the title, with new characters like Beta Ray Bill and "Frog Thor" regarded as so much silliness.

    And the Twilight Sword Saga combined elements of both. Surtur's war on Asgard remains one of the title's finest hours, but Malekith is nothing but a setup for Surtur, and as a character, he shades towards the silly side, too (sorry, it's impossible to accept a cross-dressing glam metal reject as even remotely cool, past, say, 1987; can't believe they didn't go for David Bowie or Dee Snyder to play the role....too obvious, I guess :woot:)
     
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  7. BigThor

    BigThor God of Thunder

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    All know is, Thor's fight with Kurse better be one of the best one on one fights out of all of the MCU films so far.
     
    #32
  8. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    I'm sure it'll be a decent slugfest.
    But wouldn't you rather see Thor go toe-to-toe with Surtur in the climax? :yay:
    Especially if that climax includes Surtur already knocking Heimdall, a redemption-seeking Loki, and even Odin himself out of the fight? With just Thor left, to take on the fire demon lord one on one?
     
    #33
  9. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    Asking out of ignorance, how is it that we know that the Beyonder is not going to be a part of this? (I'm asking the whole group). Perhaps there's some aspect of the Beyonder, or the rest of the (movie) story so far, that precludes it, of which I am unaware.

    Thanks.
     
    #34
  10. Zionite1

    Zionite1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanos cld easily fit the beyonder type role if necessary to change Alrim to Kurse.
    I do expect more supervillains in the movie not just kurse.My moneys on Hela not surtur. Surtur is best reserved for a movie that focuses on the Twilight sword/Ragnarok saga.

    Thor 1 started a journey-Thors journey to becoming a worthy king of Asgard and by extension a worthy ruler of the 9 realms.
    Logic dictates that during his journey Thor will have conflicts within the 9 realms-in otherwords during this journey he will only be facing 9 realm villains.The ultimate 9 realm villain is Surtur so hes best reserved for last.I expect Thors journey to becoming will be concluded by Thor 3,leading to a new trilogy with Thor dealing with threats from outside the 9 realms.
     
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  11. Godzilla2000

    Godzilla2000 Dollar Store Diva

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    So you have yourself a nifty little crystal ball and can see into the future now? I think you are presuming way too much here that Kurse and Malekith won't be written properly and made interesting enough in the MCU. I say save Surtur for the third movie and just introduce him in this one for a full appearance to end it with Ragnarok. We can't be having this second movie too overstuffed with bad guys you know.
     
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  12. jaqua99

    jaqua99 ....I need a horse!

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    Don't get me wrong. I am a spiritual person, but I can't see the future. If its along the path of finding my soul, and mind, and to true enlightenment, you must be way ahead. please teach me how to do this, because I would also like to know who my wife will be, when Thanos appears, what I will do for a career. Since you seem to know that Surtur is the main villain (seems not plausible and it would ruin his character), you must have some sort of gift....teach me your ways

    :p

    Sure will be

    Climax for Thor 3, yeah
     
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    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  13. jaqua99

    jaqua99 ....I need a horse!

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    probably gunna be hela, since that woman was cast as an unrecognizeable character....maybe Hela will be the one who turns Algrim to Kurse.

    Hela rules over hel, and if Algrim is to die....hear me out. He goes to Hel, gets revived into the land of the living by Hela, and she turns him into Kurse. I find it likely, with this recent casting news, that Hela will be in it.

    So we got Malekith, Kurse, possibly Hela,

    and as far as Sam is concerned...Surtur, that's way too much. I am sure Surtur will be referenced, maybe have a scene AND most definitely an after credit scene, but throwing him in as the main villain with this other stuff going on. Seems to unlikely. Surtur can carry a movie by himself
     
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  14. marcvader

    marcvader Lurker #1

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    I was hoping for a hot version of Hela. You know, like in the comics.
     
    #39
  15. jaqua99

    jaqua99 ....I need a horse!

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    Seriously, or she could be queen of the dark elves


    but i am hoping for hela. just because that'd be awesome
     
    #40
  16. Chewy

    Chewy REDACTED

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    That's what I've been thinking.
     
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  17. BigThor

    BigThor God of Thunder

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    No that would be stupid, how could Thor go one on one with someone who knocked Odin out?

    Sounds like very inconsistent writing to me, plus like most people I want Surtur to be saved for THOR III.

    Same here :up:

    Yeah that would be very plausible, I'd actually like to see that happen.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  18. jaqua99

    jaqua99 ....I need a horse!

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    Yeah. Which is why I think this movie will set up Thor 3 with Surtur
     
    #43
  19. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    I certainly agree that Alice Krige might be playing Hela, and your story about her finding Algrim in the underworld and powering him up is certainly plausible. Like others, though, I wonder about Krige's comment about being "unrecognizable" --- for Hela? Really? Hela doesn't require a ton of makeup/prosthetics. She's a typical hot villainess in a creepy mask.

    But here's my question to you, and all of you, who say "save Surtur for Thor 3": why? I see Thor 3 returning almost exclusively to Earth, showing Thor as a superhero, as Stan Lee intended, not a god wandering distant worlds. That's what Thor 2 is for --- to establish who Thor is and where he comes from. After that, he needs to start acting more like the earthly defender that he is in the comic books. There's still tons of earth-based iconic villains he still has to face....you want to wait until Thor 4, Thor 5 or later for that? There's no promise that the franchise will even last that long, especially if the setting remains too far detached from Midgard.

    And why do you (all of you, in general) think that Surtur requires a whole 'nother movie for setup and resolution of conflict? Surtur is one of Thor's greatest bad guys, but hey, so is Joker for Batman, and he's never required more than 2 movies per reboot. Fire giant demon lord of Muspellheim, fated to slay Odin and destroy Asgard: got it. That does *not* require more than a few minutes of exposition and backstory. All it requires is a *****in' boss battle, the best one Thor ever faces.
     
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  20. Chewy

    Chewy REDACTED

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    Thor exclusively defending Earth, whether that was Stan Lee's original intent or not, is boring. That's every superhero movie. They've spent two movies setting him up as a protector of both worlds, and we're already getting Thor based on Earth in the Avengers movies. Spending time on Asgard is what separates the Thor movies from the other movies, and it's what the general public associates with the character now. Besides, who are the "iconic" Earth-based villains? Absorbing Man? Already bastardized into the 03 Hulk movie. The Wrecking Crew? lol

    The impending destruction of all of Asgard, the death of Odin, the unleashing of a feared ancient monster from Asgardian myth, the Ragnarok, Loki's "redemption" at long last, there's a Thor 3 in there. A good one. Thor flies to Earth, punches Mr. Hyde in the face, and poses for pictures? Not really.

    Thor's budding relationship with Jane, Jane's visit to Asgard, Odin's disapproval of Thor's love for Earth and Jane, Loki's punishment and weaseling out of it, Malekith kidnapping Jane and betraying his soldier, Kurse's resurrection and lust for revenge, and Kurse realizing he was betrayed and getting his peace. That's dense. It's an entire movie. It's not the throwaway set-up for a third act doomsday scenario.
     
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  21. jaqua99

    jaqua99 ....I need a horse!

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    Well a couple things here Sam. Some of us feel it may be doing Surtur injustice for having him just be a boss battle. It would be cool to tell a whole story about surtur. However, its not just that, given circumstance, yeah, him as a boss battle would be cool.

    But we aren't hung up on the fact that he needs a whole movie to be set up.

    Its the fact that there are already two villains, possibly three in this movie.

    As I said, Surtur can carry a movie by himself. So with These three villains, the desire for surtur, and IF he appears in this movie, it just seems likely, that given the circumstance, it will be setting him up.

    I don't think he NEEDS to be set up. I think he can be introduced, covered, and defeated in one movie. It's just there is already so much going on.


    Basically I want Thor 3 to be a Ragnarok thing. That could also explain the lack of Balder
     
    #46
  22. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    I'm just not sure how much longer Marvel can continue to justify the separation of Asgard Thor from Midgard Thor. There's a definite reason for Thor to be an Avenger in TA1, because Loki is the direct cause of all the trouble. A TA2 that features Thanos, or Ultron, or even Paste-Pot Pete? Not so much of a reason for Thor to get involved there.

    He's going to have to make a choice. Ruler of Asgard, or Defender of Midgard? Depending on what decade you're reading the comic book, it could be either/or. In the movies, it's going to be a lot harder for audiences to continue to care about what happens on other planets/dimensions, though. The MCU is definitely centered on Earth, no matter how far-flung the stories carry....in the end, it's about how heroes defend the Earth from these cosmic forces.

    I know it could go either way, and I may be wrong about the direction I think Thor will take. But it's my own personal opinion that, from a business standpoint, MS will be more interested in keeping Thor down to Earth as an on-call Avenger and Defender of Midgard, and that's why I believe Thor 2 will pretty much be the end-all and be-all of his days in Asgard. And that's why I believe that it'll all climax with Surtur destroying Asgard and slaying Odin before being struck down by Thor; and then Thor will be left with the choice between two worlds. And yes, you could certainly stretch that story out for another movie or three, but again: how long can the studio continue to tell this epic fantasy set in distant worlds and pretend that the principal(s) can just leisurely bounce back to Earth every couple of years or so to help their ol' buddies Tony, Bruce and Steve mix it up with some baddies there?
     
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  23. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    I'll let Our Hero provide the rebuttal:

    "Know this, son of Coul. You and I, we fight for the same cause -- the protection of this world. From this day forward, count me as your ally. (THEN) If you return the items you have stolen from Jane Foster."

    Son-of-Coul held up his end of the bargain. Ergo, Thor in TA2. Thor is nothing if not a man of his word.

    In the comic books, all things are possible. (There is, for example, a school of thought that holds that Coulson is not dead.)

    Now, I'm in the Surtur-in-Thor3 camp, but I will say that your idea of Thor2 being the end of his days in Asgard is plausible, especially if they pick up the angle of Odin disapproving of Jane (and Thor staying with Jane). So maybe he decides he's through with Asgard. (I think this is a long shot, but it's plausible)
     
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  24. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    (BTW, I agree with Chewy's complete paragraph that this is enough material for a movie).

    I'm not completely certain this is the way they will set up the confrontation between Thor and Malekith via his champion, Algrim.

    In the original story (disclaimer: I have not actually read the source material, just plot synopses. Any mischaracterization is unintentional), Lorelei is kidnapped. Thor is interested in her, but only because there is a spell on him. (Lorelei had prepared a potion to cause this. Malekith arranged for Thor to drink the potion, and then told him he had kidnapped "Melodi", Lorelei's Earth identity). Thor goes to Malekith's realm to rescue her, and he is off his game because of the spell, and so Algrim is able to surprise him.

    Anyway, the analogy to the MCU is not entirely apt. Thor has genuine feelings for Jane (which various people have been characterizing as a crush, but no matter), not spell-induced.

    Also in the Simonson run is a bit about additional spells (from Loki) on Thor to love Lorelei, which causes trouble with his then-love Sif. So if they translate this angle to the MCU, maybe you have some spell for a Thor-Sif relationship (which gets talked about on these fora from time to time). But honestly, that does not do Sif's character justice (and I say that as a pro-Jane person).

    The love potion thing is kind of campy, and the idea of kidnapping one's love interest is so cliche. So maybe there's some other McGuffin that gets Thor down to Malekith's neck of the woods.
     
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  25. American Maid

    American Maid Well-Known Member

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    (What I had here previously is speculation, and not really about Kurse. So I'm moving my post to the (sticky) speculation thread. Sorry to leave this remnant post here.)
     
    #50

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