Discussion in 'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' started by Blackman, May 9, 2012.
You mean a whole 3 people on this board?
Ahh, the idealistic youthand their misled values.
I mean I would be able to understand if Steve and Peggy consummated at some point, or that there was a chance that Sharon was a descendant of Steve, but there is zero chance of that.
And it annoying to think that so few here think that the only reason he'd be interested in Sharon would be because of her relation to Peggy. It's like they think that's all Sharon is.
As long as she's not related to some unknown offspring of Peggy and Steve, I'd have no problem with Sharon being in a possible relationship with Steve.
So, like her comic counterpart then.
Dear god, *please* do not mistake the misguided notions of a literal HANDFUL of SHH posters and their rather strange, inaccurate and frankly immature perceptions of what constitutes incest (or anything else "icky") as somehow being representative of how the rest of the audience would view a healthy relationship between Steve & Sharon.
a) Steve & Peggy never consummated their relationship. For those of you too young to understand what that means: they never had sex. They never did the deed. They never got married. They never even danced together. So Point A officially rules out any chance whatsoever of a Steve-Sharon relationship being legally or morally viewed as incestuous.
b) There is no indication *whatsoever* that Peggy remained celibate and waited in vain for her beloved Steve to return. As far as she and the rest of the world knew, he was deader than four o'clock, and had died in a plane crash over the North Atlantic. Yeah, there's a slim chance that she might have become an old spinster, but even in the 1940s, very very *very* few women chose that path. The most likely scenario is that she went on with her life, got married, had kids, and died sometime in the 1980s or 1990s, if she fulfilled the average life expectancy of an ordinary human being.
c) Sharon Carter is going to meet Steve Rogers. That's a given, assuming she exists in the MCU at all. Because Sharon, as a top SHIELD agent who grew up on stories of her great aunt's exploits as a spy and her fabled romance with The First Avenger, is going to make damn sure she gets a chance to meet the man who can finally tell the other side of Auntie Peggy's stories.
d) There is every reason to believe that Sharon Carter and Steve Rogers will fall in love naturally, as a result of being co-workers who spend a lot of time together and who share a lot of personality traits and the same interests and worldviews. And are biologically close to the same age, and who are both gorgeous.
There's no "ick" factor involved here. People are grasping at straws, just to justify their own hopes for Cap to shrug off his comic-book storyline and date somebody besides Sharon Carter. Agent 13 haters gonna hate.
I agree completely.
Quite a few people will make snap judgements, but Sharon as Peggy's grand-niece could be done without it seeming badwrong.
But if Marvel/Russos are iffy about it, they can make her Coulson's daughter instead of leaving her out completely.
I wouldn't mind seeing Rachel Leighton/ Diamondback show up at some point, just to complicate things. She doesn't need to be a permanent love interest, but more like someone who flirts with Cap and tempts him, and he in turn influences her to become a force for good. She could be someone sent by Viper and the Serpent Society to spy on Cap but ends up falling for him and turning.
I'd like Diamondback to be an obstacle between Steve and Sharon. And I definitely want to see Viper and the Serpent Society in future movies.
You need to go back to Tales of Suspense #75 from 1966
To see how the cap/Sharon relationship started.
Sharon was a SHIELD agent who bore a striking resemblance
to Peggy that Cap had briefly met on a mission against AIM
Over time, things just worked out. And yes, she was related to
Peggy Carter. That was another piece of the story
That made the relationship intriguing. It worked
In the comic books, and it will work in the movies.
Hollywood ALWAYS runs in to trouble when they
Mess with Stan Lee's inspired writting and scripting
of the original story lines. Haley Atwell needs to come
Back as Sharon.
That makes it look like he hasn't moved on, the only girl he's interested in is another Peggy. That's how people know friends haven't moved on from their exes, they date people who look just like their exes. The closer the resemblance (same job, family relations) the clearer sign it is that the relationship is not real, it's just a consolation prize.
He should get with someone who is perhaps different from Peggy in some way. Perhaps not an intelligence agent, perhaps not in Peggy's family, perhaps not her spitting image... y'know in some way showing that he's moved on, as opposed to still interested in Peggy, who happens to not be available.
How about a Bernie Rosenthal? How about Diamondback? How about in the natural pace of the story, he comes across someone who interests him that he can learn from and grow from, as opposed to putting in a replacement Peggy and then trying to make it seem natural?
It's not about relation, commitment, death, blood or anything like that.
It's about he's dating a stand in. That's *****ey. Period.
The character is designed to be a stand in from the ground up. You can't use her without being *****ey.
Put it this way... your best friend says he's totally over his ex. He brings by a girl who is her spitting image, same job, and is even related to her in some way. Without being able to read minds, do you think he's over his ex or not?
Indeed, only three people on this board see this as something okay. Perhaps if they addressed the arguments given about the emotional subtext, the conversation could move forward.
Assuming she exists in the MCU is the problem. It is contrived. The audience is not that naive. Sharon Carter is a replacement character, that is her purpose for existing. No matter how natural you try to make the story, you know that she's a replacement for Peggy, I know it, and so do they. It's too convenient and contrived to ever seem natural. You can say Cap is over Peggy, but dating Peggy 2.0 is proof that he's not.
Uh, your "counter-arguments" about to "you guys are a minority" and "you just think it's icky." It inspires me to see you as the one grasping at straws, with an immature concept of what constitutes a healthy relationship.
At the end of the day, you can say that Steve is over Peggy all day long, but when the movie, the story isn't over Peggy, when it goes out of its way to create a character that is like Peggy in every conceivable way, visually, genetically, as well as her role in the story... it creates an disingenuous effect... the main character is over Peggy, but the writers can't let her go. It's either contrived or contradictory, and a good movie is neither.
Hopefully you got more out of that than "I think it's icky." This time.
I think you can only read it as *****ey if you are *****ey. At face value, she may have been a stand in(I don't think so, but we'll go with it), but that doesn't make the feelings that Steve has developed for her over time shallow. He doesn't fall for Sharon because she's Peggy with blonde hair or that she's related to his past love, he falls in love with Sharon for Sharon.
You do what the writers would do; approach it with care and then go with it. It's what makes him happy, so no point making an issue out of it, especially when there's no issue to make.
Actually, only 3 people on this board have an issue with Steve and Sharon. Trust me, I checked. You can do so as well. There was a 4th one, but he's on the fence about it, but if you really want, you can have that 4th one too.
I think you just don't like the character of Sharon and are just biased against her existence.
That's the thing. Steve and Peggy were never lovers. More like friends who both wanted something more, but never got around to it.
And you anti Sharon cats continúe to assume that Steve has no integrity by thinking he's interested in having a relationship with someone who looks like Peggy. The writers would be idiots to write it that way and it wont happen that way. THAT would be *****ey. Relationships can take their time to develop, it happens all the time guys, for all the inexperienced. It happened that way in First Avenger for Pete's sake.
I think that not only should Steve start a relationship with Sharon, but he should also get her to dye her hair brown, wear 1940s clothing and speak in a British accent. When she asks him why, he'll just say that he's not quite up to speed with modern women. If she's into fancy dress she'll oblige.
The only difficulty is when he starts referring to her as Peggy while in bed.
Has his ex been dead for twenty+ years? Was the last time he saw his ex 70 years ago, when she was, you know, actually alive? Then yeah....I'd think he's over his ex.
LoL hahaha the way i LOL-ed so hard when i read this!! LoL
LoL but you do realize to Cap it would feel like Peggy was alive yesterday... He didn't get that time to move on, he was a sleep for all those years...
Sharon should be introduced in the next film, but I don't think she should be the love interest, but she should be Cap's right hand when he goes on a mission... like you said before, they grew in love over time, so allow her to be introduced into the next film but have someone like Bernie Rosenthal as his new love interest... someone that isn't military or SHIELD, thats a different type of woman, the modern woman. end the film, with Cap breaking up with her, because he doesn't want to put her life in any sort of danger.
Cap 3, you show Cap and Sharon with a very cool dynamic and understanding, they have good chemistry... Cap does have some feelings for Sharon but he doesn't act upon them. Que speech by someone wise telling Cap to move on, his old life is gone Blah blah blah... end film with Cap and Sharon dancing..
But Sharon should be a totally different personality to Peggy, she Should not remind him Peggy. there only similarity is that they both military...
I wouldn't be against that approach M-2. Her having American sensibilities would go a long ways to differentiating her from Peggy.
Yup. As long as she isn't Canadian. JK =P
Easiest way to solve this problem: No damn love interest in the frickin' film.
Why does every film have to have the 'obligatory' love interest..Just because the comics have them at some point?
I don't see a problem having the film with him or Carter or Mockingbird or whoever they decide to put him with just kicking ass for 2 hrs. There are plenty other things you can insert to give the film its lighter moments.
Love Interests are truly turning into forced contrived plain stupid plot devices. Do away with it for a movie, come back with it(Next Film, solo or not) and actually have it mean something.
You know I'm really starting to hate Coulson...
What's he done now? It's not like he's come between Cap and Sharon or Cap and Peggy. That would just be a sandwich Phil-er, which I'm sure Steve wouldn't want to contemplate when he's telling Peggy Sharon to lie back and think of England.
Yes, to Cap it would feel like Peggy was alive just yesterday, but if she was still alive in 2012 and he saw her now as a shriveled old 90-year old, it would freak him out. Not just physically, but mentally, of course. She's already lived an entire lifetime without him, probably got married and had kids and grandkids, and if she's not dead already, she will be soon. It's a tragic situation to be in, but he's going to realize that his and Peggy's lives no longer intersect ---- her life went on without him. And it's one *hell* of a lot simpler to illustrate all that with a graveside eulogy than trying to force a very, very awkward and squirmy scene between a 20something Steve and an old crone he no longer even knows.
But yeah, I agree with you that Sharon being an American would help a lot, considering that that's what she was in the comics anyway.
Okay I take that back, I hate how the fans are using Coulson to explain weird things such as The Vision...
Just make Sharon Carter Sharon Carter
All this nonsense about Peggy and Sharon Carter is easily solved. You just simply stay with the Marvel story line that has worked for almost a half of a century. Cap and Sharon meet and they fall in love. Sharon IS in fact related to Peggy but that all gets worked out between them. Sharon becomes a force in her own right and they make a great team. The plot lines started by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby worked just fine and the relationship between Cap and Sharon continues into the current era under the brilliant guidance of Ed Brubaker. Don't mess with Marvels successful formula in regards to Cap, Sharon and Peggy. Just adhere to the story as it already exists and forget about making any changes or tweaks! It's been working for the Cap story line since 1966.