Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

[X Knight]

just curious, but in Superman II and IV, did Superman save people while in the middle of battling Zod and co and Nuclear Man?

 

[robot]

Well I cant blame anyone liking that plane scene better. I still find it amazing.

And I dont think it was a lets get in on this scene thing. It continued the notion that there is a special person in the world that does great feats to save people but only to dissapear and never heard from again. And as you see when he saved those people his was on the run again. Which also ties in with Jonathan Kents words to him. Pa Kent told Clark that the world was not ready for him. But Clark let his father die because of that advice. So that "happy" medium for Clark is to save people and run away.

I actually bought that BluRay so that I can re-watch that scene over and over again... when it came out in the Cinema, I can see everyone was holding their breadth...

There was 3 awesome scenes for me in SR:

1. Plane Rescue
2. Bullet in the Eye
3. Sinking Ship Rescue

The rest was just similar to STM...

--

As for the Oil Rig.. I didn't mean he doesn't run away again.. I am saying, that scene could have been so perfect if they built it up to maybe 10 minutes.. like, maybe show how the fire started, and how it slowly built up and how the people are trapped, etc.. like they are about to die, etc... and also, show clark mingling with his buddies on the trawler, chit chatting, etc.. etc.. build up a few of those characters... then during the rescue, make it even harder... put up a few hurdles... right now, it felt like it was a scene just to get out of the way, or it was needed for the plot and nothing else... like a 'news report'.. or snippet or something...

In fact, I think i am starting to suspect that most of the scenes were cut short to fit the movie into 2:23... if they had allowed it to run it's regular course, maybe it would have been 2:40...

And this happens over and over again... i can go about every other scene.. like the bully scene... again, it's not built up.... add 3-5 mins to every scene for proper built up.. and suddenly this movie would turn into a gem...

BTW: Just because I thought that the movie was rushed and there are cerain aspects that i didn't like, doesn't mean i didn't like the movie as a whole.. i gave it a 9/10, and thought it was still the best movie of the year so far... but that doesn't mean i can't talk about it's faults as i see them... and apparently lots of people felt as i do too (including most of my friends and we have seen a lot of critics, including those that gave it a pass)

 

[Marvin]

just curious, but in Superman II and IV, did Superman save people while in the middle of battling Zod and co and Nuclear Man?

Where do you think some of these folks developed the preconception of how a superman fight should be.

He causes damage, he stops fighting and save people, everything. But he makes his concern for people very apparent. In Superman 2 he even leave the city battle "for the sake of the people".

In superman 4 he saves the satue of liberty at the cost of the battle.

 

[Rock Sexton]

I mean who are you speaking for? Because it sounds like you are speaking for 100% of the audience. Do you think 100% of the audience feels this way?

Oh stop.

You are just as guilty of writing in that fashion as the rest of us are.

That might be the route most other heroes go for. Not superman though he had to expunge all other options and be put in a corner before he did.

What other options did he expunge? He just stepped right up into a certified brawl.

I know,I know .... he's inexperienced ..... and he's going to know differently "in the sequel", which has become quite the catch phrase.

 

[Marvin]

Oh stop.

You are just as guilty of writing in that fashion as the rest of us are.

Pretty sure I don't. I certainly try not too. Try to include the term imo on statements like that whenever possible. I'll tell you what I don't do. I don't defend it if I do.

What other options did he expunge? He just stepped right up into a certified brawl.

I know,I know .... he's inexperienced ..... and he's going to know differently "in the sequel", which has become quite the catch phrase.

Name a few options superman had.
outside of tossing his trusty cellophane.

He only had one option at the end there. Lest the city turns into a giant crater and you guys have even more supposed qualms about the lives he doesn't care about.

There's another universe out there where all this damage would have been a non issue cause there's always option D. Reversing time and saving everyone.

 

[Marvin]

He sure does love his small town ihop.

how else can we explain this look of concern on his face?

 

[Rock Sexton]

He sure does love his small town ihop.

how else can we explain this look of concern on his face?

That "look" is because he and the redheaded bully from high school had noticed each other.

 

[Marvin]

That "look" is because he and the redheaded bully from high school had noticed each other.

makes sense.
I still think he loves that ihop though.

 

[Bruce Malone]

That "look" is because he and the redheaded bully from high school had noticed each other.

Haha that was pete ross his best friend, i'm pretty sure they moved beyond the bully/victim role after he saved his life.

 

[The Guard]

I wonder if we'll see Pete inspired to stop working at IHop and become Vice President like he does in the comics. Probably not.

Superman fighting Zod IS how he was attempting to save lives. I don’t understand why that’s lost on so many people. I mean, SUPERMAN RETURNS returned featured Superman saving lives and a nice variety of usages of his superpowers all the while, and people whined about the action because there wasn’t any punching in the movie. Now they get punching, and they whine because even though Superman was punching to save lives, he wasn’t saving enough lives, even though he kind of was.

It boggles the mind, and its a complaint that just lacks any logic whatsoever. It's one thing to want to see something. It's quite another to label a movie that takes an entirely different approach "flawed" for lack of it.

I get it. It would have been nice to see Superman catching some falling rubble or whatnot (and let's not pretend we didn't see the man saving lives during this movie). But the point is that he can’t do so, given what’s happening in the film. Zod never gives him the chance. And the filmmakers WANTED that. They wanted to show you a villain who was so intent on destruction and mayhem that he wasn’t going to let up. Which becomes a key theme by the end of their fight. Which is why the end of the movie works so well.

But...suggesting that the fights in Metropolis weren’t creative, that the action is somehow repetitive…I just feel like some people didn’t watch this movie very closely.

 

[Marvin]

I wonder if we'll see Pete inspired to stop working at IHop and become Vice President like he does in the comics. Probably not.

Superman fighting Zod IS how he was attempting to save lives. I don’t understand why that’s lost on so many people. I mean, SUPERMAN RETURNS returned featured Superman saving lives and a nice variety of usages of his superpowers all the while, and people whined about the action because there wasn’t any punching in the movie. Now they get punching, and they whine because even though Superman was punching to save lives, he wasn’t saving enough lives, even though he kind of was.

It boggles the mind, and its a complaint that just lacks any logic whatsoever. It's one thing to want to see something. It's quite another to label a movie that takes an entirely different approach "flawed" for lack of it.

I get it. It would have been nice to see Superman catching some falling rubble or whatnot (and let's not pretend we didn't see the man saving lives during this movie). But the point is that he can’t do so, given what’s happening in the film. Zod never gives him the chance. And the filmmakers WANTED that. They wanted to show you a villain who was so intent on destruction and mayhem that he wasn’t going to let up. Which becomes a key theme by the end of their fight. Which is why the end of the movie works so well.

But...suggesting that the fights in Metropolis weren’t creative, that the action is somehow repetitive…I just feel like some people didn’t watch this movie very closely.

I think the producers probably counted on preconceived notions to fill in that gap. Now they know that, that same preconception found some of these people wanting.

The sad thing is, that if this was any other cbm, more people might have actually sat back and enjoyed the action for what it was.
Sadly not getting some more saves and greater look of concern on the man has literally ruined appreciation.

Even sadder is how much some of these same people weren't condemning the scale when they saw it in the trailers. Leads me to believe that this film could have destroyed a earth, the sun and everything in between if only we had a good amount of attempts at saves.

I used the word sad three times in one post

 

[BlueLantern]

I agree with you to some extend. Now if you had remembered to throw in posters 1, 2, 4 and 8 on the other side of the fence, I would agree totally.
You're insinuating that every critic of this movie is making valid points and explaining why they see things the way they do, while "the defence" is just talking crap.
I think (hope) we can both agree that's not the case

But this movie was destined to create arguments, wasn't it? I don't believe it's possible to make a Superman movie that satisfies everyone, as the character means something different to every person.
And when you add in the fact that the creators wanted to mix it up a little, is was destined to piss some people off. And make others happy.

But I agree that there's no reason to compete about reaching the lowest possible level when discussing it.

No, it's not the case. You'll have your fair share of detractors for no reason, though I'll admit so far there's been more blind defenders than insane detractors.

The thing about making people happy and my befuddlement at the more 'omg best movie made' reactions is that it's representative of how sometimes the audiences will eat up stuff relatively easily.

But that's an issue for another day. So far most people defending the movie by discussing the points intimately have made some good arguments.

However, the issue with their defenses is that their points are far more solid than the contrivances they're defending.

It's essentially sound logic to explain something when the truth is there was a lack of logic behind the filmmakers' intentions anyway. And it's not unexpected when sacrificing substance for spectacle.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Haha that was pete ross his best friend, i'm pretty sure they moved beyond the bully/victim role after he saved his life.

Ohhhh. Well I knew it was a redhead of some kind LOL.

 

[Rock Sexton]

It boggles the mind, and its a complaint that just lacks any logic whatsoever. It's one thing to want to see something. It's quite another to label a movie that takes an entirely different approach "flawed" for lack of it.

Look at that GIF again of Supes fighting in IHOP. That place had people all throughout it still sitting in their booths. You mean to tell me it's not logical for some of us to expect Supes to think to himself, "I better use my super strength to cannoball this ****insert Kryptonian word for biotch**** out of here away from everyone!" ....???????

For whatever reason, Goyer chose not to show any bit of flexibility in Supes approach. He wrote him into a corner. He became purely rock'em sock'em. We go from a guy who up until Smallville was a man as composed as any living entity in the galaxy and he suddenly morphs into some guy who balls his fists up alot and takes part in virtual kryptonian warrior madness. I wanted to see a real superpowered battle .... but not gratuitously done.

Now many on here will argue that he's rookie Supes, sort've in the guise of Batman Begins. I'm just not buying it because of all of the grandstanding done by Jor-El and Pa Kent about Clark. They were beating that drum all freakin' movie long. I can't personally sit there and listen to all of that and then actually "see" none of it once he dons the suit .... and again I didn't get to see it because of Goyer's inexplicable choice to not write it into the movie once the fights start breaking out.

However, the issue with their defenses is that their points are far more solid than the contrivances they're defending.

It's essentially sound logic to explain something when the truth is there was a lack of logic behind the filmmakers' intentions anyway. And it's not unexpected when sacrificing substance for spectacle.

This.

 

[Rock Sexton]

The sad thing is, that if this was any other cbm, more people might have actually sat back and enjoyed the action for what it was.
Sadly not getting some more saves and greater look of concern on the man has literally ruined appreciation.

Didn't you just get done telling me that you never attempt to speak for masses of other people when conveying how a movie was executed?

Pretty sure I don't. I certainly try not too. Try to include the term imo on statements like that whenever possible. I'll tell you what I don't do. I don't defend it if I do.

 

[Marvin]

Look at that GIF again of Supes fighting in IHOP. That place had people all throughout it still sitting in their booths. You mean to tell me it's not logical for some of us to expect Supes to think to himself, "I better use my super strength to cannoball this ****insert Kryptonian word for biotch**** out of here away from everyone!" ....???????

For whatever reason, Goyer chose not to show any bit of flexibility in Supes approach. He wrote him into a corner. He became purely rock'em sock'em. We go from a guy who up until Smallville was a man as composed as any living entity in the galaxy and he suddenly morphs into some guy who balls his fists up alot and takes part in virtual kryptonian warrior madness. I wanted to see a real superpowered battle .... but not gratuitously done.

Now many on here will argue that he's rookie Supes, sort've in the guise of Batman Begins. I'm just not buying it because of all of the grandstanding done by Jor-El and Pa Kent about Clark. They were beating that drum all freakin' movie long. I can't personally sit there and listen to all of that and then actually "see" none of it once he dons the suit .... and again I didn't get to see it because of Goyer's inexplicable choice to write it into the movie once the fights start breaking out.

I think you are proving guards point. If he can't do it, that might be because he can't do it.

Spoiler

But I suppose that's just a writing decision.

 

[Rock Sexton]

I think you are proving guards point. If he can't do it, that might be because he can't do it.

Spoiler

But I suppose that's just a writing decision.

He can't successfuly cannonball Faora out of IHOP ..... but he can snap Zod's neck like a twig, a man even more powerful than Faora. He can also ragdoll punch him over miles worth of distances while in the air.

Both of whom btw, had spent far less time in the presence of the Earth's yellow sun than Supes.

Again, poorly written .... conflicting information abound.

 

[sf2]

just curious, but in Superman II and IV, did Superman save people while in the middle of battling Zod and co and Nuclear Man?

he did in SII. and that's why Zod found out his weakness. it was very well done until this point.
then superman just flew away, leaving behind the people in danger with the 3 kryptonians.
and there is where the anti-climate comes. you will literally wanna stop watching the movie further.

 

[The Guard]

He can't successfuly cannonball Faora out of IHOP ..... but he can snap Zod's neck like a twig, a man even more powerful than Faora. He can also ragdoll punch him over miles worth of distances while in the air.

One of these is trying to defeat a trained warrior who doesn't want to be thrown, knocked down, etc, when you yourself are not, in fact, a trained warrior.

One of the things is breaking a few bones.

There's a world of difference between the two, and no real "inconsistency" in what's portrayed in that regard.

 

[Rock Sexton]

One of these is trying to defeat a trained warrior who doesn't want to be thrown, knocked down, etc, when you yourself are not, in fact, a trained warrior.

One of the things is breaking a few bones.

There's a world of difference between the two, and no real "inconsistency" in what's portrayed in that regard.

You guys keep bringing up this "trained" warrior vs. the rookie stuff and the more you do it the more you bring to light even more "inconsistencies because Supes should've never even been effective enough. If he can't outmuscle Faora .... and he's not experienced enough yet to strategize against the Kryptonians .... Sounds like he was just absurdly "written" to victory!

Breaking Zod's neck is not world's of difference between muscling Faora out of the IHOP. Did you forget the immovable object Zod became. How then could he so simply snap his neck? Must've taken some serious brute strength .... and if he can snap his neck like it's nothing, again I point back to the absurd nature of not being able to force Faora away from the public.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Keep in mind, Zod essentially lost the will to live, so it would take less effort to kill him.

 

[robot]

^ Keep in mind, Zod essentially lost the will to live, so it would take less effort to kill him.

If I am not mistaken, I think Zod wanted to be killed.. that's why he threatened the family with his heat vision... 'death by cop' situation here... he's not giving Supe any choice... He said that all he'll do is to kill from now on... otherwise the scene doesn't make sense...

 

[The Guard]

You guys keep bringing up this "trained" warrior vs. the rookie stuff and the more you do it the more you bring to light even more "inconsistencies because Supes should've never even been effective enough. If he can't outmuscle Faora .... and he's not experienced enough yet to strategize against the Kryptonians .... Sounds like he was just absurdly "written" to victory!

I feel like you don't know movies work.

Breaking Zod's neck is not world's of difference between muscling Faora out of the IHOP. Did you forget the immovable object Zod became. How then could he so simply snap his neck? Must've taken some serious brute strength .... and if he can snap his neck like it's nothing, again I point back to the absurd nature of not being able to force Faora away from the public.

Umm...yes. Breaking someone's neck is incredibly different than tackling someone out of a building.

You're asking how, when Zod was immoveable...was Superman able to break his neck?

Because it's a neck.

 

[Marvin]

Didn't you just get done telling me that you never attempt to speak for masses of other people when conveying how a movie was executed?

No, if you look at the post in question, I said that I never speak for 100% of the audience and apply statements like....you don't feel anything 'emotional' towards any of the fight scenes but rather "I...."

Assuming the mind set of a group of people is very much in my wheelhouse and fine by me.

Example: I think if Miami heat didn't have 3 all stars, they wouldn't be hated as much, people probably have it out for them That's not the same as, When Lebron is on the bench you don't feel like watching.

I don't like being told what to think. I Never said anything about being put into a box..

Glad you are paying attention though.
Good game tonight, I enjoyed it

 

[BlueLantern]

Not speaking for the audience is one thing, but having a generally condescending tone insinuates that you know better than the person you're responding to.

Don't get me wrong, I can be guilty of that plenty of times too, but then hiding behind semantics and internet morality can become a little difficult to pull off. Truth is, everyone's got differing opinions on the film. Naturally, people think their own opinion is more in line with the truth than that of others. It's cool.

The key is to respect the existence of that opinion instead of devaluing it/throwing hyperbole at it/mocking it with sarcasm/ignoring the post and responding with 'MOS is the Superman film I've been waiting for!'

Not saying that you don't tend to do that, but finding a constructive conversation that doesn't devolve into arguments over technicalities and morality is pretty hard around here. Look, even I'm chipping in.

Tl;dr is this film's been great for encouraging discussion but not only are the topics going around in circles but it's resulting in posts like these. Time to drop it and move on to looking forward to the Wolverine?

I know I am.