Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

[BlueLantern]

hey BlueLantern when you say Nam-Ek you are referring to Tor-An right?

The big guy. Don't know whether he's Nam-Ek or Tor-An.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

The big guy. Don't know whether he's Nam-Ek or Tor-An.

I dont either lol. I guess it doesnt matter. Pretty good for a nameless face character though.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Blue Lantern, I just want to personally thank you man. I don't always have the patience to sit here and extensively deconstruct everything I was irritated/disappointed about when it comes to MoS, but man you've really laid it all out there ..... all the examples of bad dialogue, plot inconsistencies and nonsensical elements of the fighting.

I appreciate your willingness to take the time out to explain it all. Words can't express enough how much I was let down by this film. Was looking forward to it for months on end.

 

[BlueLantern]

No worries. I didn't see the point in rampaging about it in an incoherent fashion because I truly care about Superman and wanted the film to be the best of its kind.

It wasn't all it could've been and it's I wanted to figure out what went wrong.

bad place, something I haven't touched upon is the colour palette used. In some scenes it really worked and in others I felt like I was watching Frank Herbert's Superman.

But we'll leave that for another day since I'm sure Marvin needs to time come up with a way to interpret that opinion in the most extreme way possible so that I look like a crazy person. , Marv.

 

[Rock Sexton]

No worries. I didn't see the point in rampaging about it in an incoherent fashion because I truly care about Superman and wanted the film to be the best of its kind.

It wasn't all it could've been and it's I wanted to figure out what went wrong.

bad place, something I haven't touched upon is the colour palette used. In some scenes it really worked and in others I felt like I was watching Frank Herbert's Superman.

But we'll leave that for another day since I'm sure Marvin needs to time come up with a way to interpret that opinion in the most extreme way possible so that I look like a crazy person. , Marv.

Oh I can tell you care, trust me. But you seriously pegged every single detail that I sat there rolling my eyes at ..... from the "He's not our enemy" crap, to the uncanny traversing of secondary characters just to show up in scenes, or the military mindlessly firing missles on the streets of a small town where the people are hiding in the buildings ....... and on and on and on. Obviously I don't need to repeat them all.

I was confused by the color palattes at times too. In the shot of Supes after he acquires his outfit and steps out into the snow, his cape is blazing red and yet througout most of the other shots it's pure burgandy.

At any rate there was a lot of prior talk of the film being rushed or fast tracked because of the legal ramifications if they had not produced a new movie in time. It shows man, it really does.

 

[Rock Sexton]

You do know the Avengers where fighting a bunch of weak enemies that they could handle. They where in control at all times. There only problem was shutting off the Teseract. They where taking out the Chitari like cockroaches. The Kryptoian where near equal to Superman. It's like saying why didn't' Thor save that fighter pilot from getting destroyed by the Hulk.

lol Superman did try to run on multiple occasions but got ash flash every time he tried. He attempted to speed blizz passed Foara in the Ihop after he got knocked down for attacking her and got punished for it. He also try to fly away from the big Kryptonian and he grabed sups leg and punished him also.

It was a different kind of fight .....

The Avengers faced a full-scale invasion and were outmatched in numbers, not necessarily strength/power.

 

[Regthar]

Well at least the film has had an impact, since we're all arguing about it

Thing is, I'm pretty sure I and many others could take your favorite movie and pick it apart in a similar fashion, where you would be explaining why it works, and what I clearly misunderstood.
It's all a matter of taste and you tend to notice the flaws more when you don't like the movie.

Not saying that the debate should end though, as it is part of the fun

I personally had mixed feelings about the movie first time I saw it. Some things I loved, some things I liked and some things I wasn't too happy about. When the snap happened, I just couldn't believe it. But the more I have watched the movie, and the more I think about it, the more I like that ending, as I'm convinced that it will be touched upon later.

 

[BlueLantern]

Thing is, I'm pretty sure I and many others could take your favorite movie and pick it apart in a similar fashion, where you would be explaining why it works, and what I clearly misunderstood.

No offense, but this part portrays people analyzing the film as cruel villains picking the movie apart just to torture you.

Moreover it also comes across as extremely condescending and implies people misunderstood elements of the film instead of finding very valid flaws in its storytelling.

That's not the intention on my part and I'm intelligent enough to distinguish between a misunderstanding and laziness or failure in appropriately telling a story.

Good evening.

 

[Regthar]

No offense, but this part portrays people analyzing the film as cruel villains picking the movie apart just to torture you.

Moreover it also comes across as extremely condescending and implies people misunderstood elements of the film instead of finding very valid flaws in its storytelling.

That's not the intention on my part and I'm intelligent enough to distinguish between a misunderstanding and laziness or failure in appropriately telling a story.

Good evening.

Oh I don't feel tortured, don't worry
And if you read my post that way, you either misunderstood , or I failed to deliver it appropriately.

By the way, who decides how a story is told appropriately?Good evening to you too.

 

[BlueLantern]

The filmmakers decide to tell the story and its up to the audience to decide whether its appropriate to their individual tastes. It was appropriate to my taste, to a point.

There was plenty right but some wrong. I'm looking at the wrong and seeing how it could've been done better. That's about it.

For what it's worth your post was written a bit inappropriately. In my opinion.

 

[Regthar]

The filmmakers decide to tell the story and its up to the audience to decide whether its appropriate to their individual tastes.

Good. 'Cause for a minute there, I thought it sounded like you decided. Glad to hear that's not the case.

There was plenty right but some wrong. I'm looking at the wrong and seeing how it could've been done better. That's about it.

In your response to my (lengthy) post, it actually sounds like you have very little positive to say about the movie. But I guess I'm wrong, and I apologize

For what it's worth your post was written a bit inappropriately. In my opinion.

I will strive to do better in the future.

 

[gdw]

Regarding the gas station, watch the clip again. The building doesn't blow up. They do crash through it, but it's the pump that blows up, and there's one car there. You can also see that there is no one pumping gas at it.

So, either the one potential casualty either JUST pulled up and was still in their car, (or they JUST got back into it,) or they were inside paying.

I'd think that the latter is a pretty reasonable assumption.

Still careless, but I think we've all accepted that his blind rage in that moment was fairly understandable.

The ending, there was only ONE shot where I found it wasn't clear that it was Zod throwing Superman through buildings. Every other shot, it was clearly Zod who was responsible for the damage, and Superman trying to stop him.

 

[deanmachine]

I feel as if loss of life will be addressed in the sequal. Much like Batman dealt with being an outcast in TDK (No more dead cops!) and we see that the world is still very much leary of him (with many hating him, since if it wasn't for him none of this would have happened). Superman has accepted the idea of being human, but now must come to terms with who is as a hero.

 

[macphisto96]

I agree with you. My only complaint would be the lack of remorse over all of the casualties that Superman showed. If there had been one scene with Lois after the final battle where the two acknowledge the devastation and lives lost, I think there would be fewer complaints. But it just jumps straight to a happy ending instead.

I don't know. That wail at the end doesn't seem to just be over Zod.

Film doesn't convey time very well. How long has it been when we get to the drone downing at the end, the talk with Ma Kent, or Clark coming to the Planet? We don't know. I think that worked better than having Superman sulk. I get that so many people want this to be perfect, but you only have a limited time to deal with everything.

I think the reaction to this should really come in a second film anyways, as Superman begins to truly form who he is - what kind of rules he tries to play by, etc.

Did we ever really get an answer in the past as to why Superman tried to direct fights away from populations, etc? I think here we may have an answer as this experience informs him and causes him to be far more prepared when the next menace rears its head.

 

[Marvin]

It was a different kind of fight .....

The Avengers faced a full-scale invasion and were outmatched in numbers, not necessarily strength/power.

Having numbers of your own, makes job partitioning alot(easier) more feasible. Surprised Cap didn't make a coffee run for Stark and the team during the melee. Would have been very whedon.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Having numbers of your own, makes job partitioning alot(easier) more feasible. Surprised Cap didn't make a coffee run for Stark and the team during the melee. Would have been very whedon.

Oh right right ..... 6 vs hundreds if not thousands? You're right. How did Cap not go take a break for java.

You seem to think I'm arguing one fight was harder than the other. I was arguing they were a "different" fight. But this tends to happen a lot. Many people insinuate in these arguments that the others' holy grail is everything that happened in the Avengers.

 

[macphisto96]

Oh right right ..... 6 vs hundreds if not thousands? You're right. How did Cap not go take a break for java.

You seem to think I'm arguing one fight was harder than the other. I was arguing they were a "different" fight. But this tends to happen a lot. Many people insinuate in these arguments that the others' holy grail is everything that happened in the Avengers.

They were somewhat different, though The Avengers fight didn't make a lot of sense plotwise to me. I got where they were going, but the rationale never made much sense. Still enjoyed it, but it was just a fun popcorn flick.

Really dug the Man Of Steel stuff because it had some meaning and purpose behind it. Loved Avengers last summer, but MOS definitely made it far less significant. It'd be nice if Marvel would do more than just make popcorn movies and actually try to do some serious takes on their characters. Doubt that'll happen. Rumor is Avengers 2 will feature costumes of all members fitted with mouse ears bearing their names.

 

[Rock Sexton]

They were somewhat different, though The Avengers fight didn't make a lot of sense plotwise to me. I got where they were going, but the rationale never made much sense. Still enjoyed it, but it was just a fun popcorn flick.

Really dug the Man Of Steel stuff because it had some meaning and purpose behind it. Loved Avengers last summer, but MOS definitely made it far less significant. It'd be nice if Marvel would do more than just make popcorn movies and actually try to do some serious takes on their characters. Doubt that'll happen. Rumor is Avengers 2 will feature costumes of all members fitted with mouse ears bearing their names.

What didn't make sense plot-wise or rationale? I can't wait to hear this.

BTW, just because a movie "attempts" to have a serious tone doesn't make it any less popcorn chief. Popcorn flicks have lines like "What are you looking at? .... Oh nothing, I just think he's hot" *****Cringe*****

 

[stillanerd]

As a lark, Charles Watson, a scientist and disaster expert for the Watson Technical Institute, ran an analysis on what the casualties and collateral damage would've been to Metropolis if what happened in Man of Steel occurred in the real world. Their conclusions:

*129,000 known killed.
*over 250,000 missing.
*nearly a million injured.
*$700 billion in structural damage.
*$2 trillion in total damage.

He also cites the effect on Metropolis from the World Engine would've caused damage a mile in diameter and "be similar to an air burst from a 20kt nuclear explosion in terms of shock effects, but without the radiation or thermal effects.”

I mean, if get established that Lex Luthor has the contract to rebuild Metropolis, he must have an even bigger money bin than Scoorge McDuck.

 

[Marvin]

Oh right right ..... 6 vs hundreds if not thousands? You're right. How did Cap not go take a break for java.

You seem to think I'm arguing one fight was harder than the other. I was arguing they were a "different" fight. But this tends to happen a lot. Many people insinuate in these arguments that the others' holy grail is everything that happened in the Avengers.

um.
All I said was that it's easier to partition tasks when you have a group. The rest was whedon joke and a good one at that.

If superman had a partner when fighting zod, perhaps he could fight zod one on one(the way batman fights bane), and his partner, let's use super girl in this example, could run into buildings and help people huddled together.

When they make a JLA film and superman has his hands full and flash doesn't run around saving people or something of that nature, I'll be right there will all these people that keep bringing up "the Cap scene". Till then your words ring even truer than you know. It's a different kind of fight.

Btw 6 vs 6000 as you put it and they still somehow find time to keep regrouping and strategizing and even a circular group hero shot. Notice how much time Superman had to do that in his Zod fight? Either they simply had more "down time" or they simply didn't care for all the damage being caused in those few minutes.

On another note, I think people would be crying blood murder if superman faced the same situation and ended up nuking an entire alien fleet. Sucks but it's true.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

You do know the Avengers where fighting a bunch of weak enemies that they could handle. They where in control at all times. There only problem was shutting off the Teseract. They where taking out the Chitari like cockroaches. The Kryptoian where near equal to Superman. It's like saying why didn't' Thor save that fighter pilot from getting destroyed by the Hulk.

lol Superman did try to run on multiple occasions but got ash flash every time he tried. He attempted to speed blizz passed Foara in the Ihop after he got knocked down for attacking her and got punished for it. He also try to fly away from the big Kryptonian and he grabed sups leg and punished him also.

sorry but youre wrong about the Avengers scene. Cap and Widow were barely holding on, cap being seriously injured. hulk was being bombarded by alien fire near the end of the battle and was pinned down and injured. Thor was holding his own but he had been stabbed in the side. IM was in rough shape when he went into the wormhole and was more or less dead before he was "revived" by the Hulk (its a movie after all). The Chitauri had plenty of ships left to send through the portal, but were stopped by the nuke. there was nothing easy about the battle.

supes doesnt kill. he doesnt endanger civilians because hes pissed off. no one forced the writers to have the final battle in the middle of a city so rationalizing that supes had to do x because of y is just dumb. its all made up! they couldve come up with a million different scenarios that wouldnt have endanged a MASSIVE amount of civilians.

and we know for a fact that the city wasnt anywhere near de-populated or evacuated. the presence of citizens are what "forced" Supes to

Spoiler

snap zod's neck

in the first place.

i enjoyed the movie (7.5/10), but there are legit glaring issues with this movie. and if you're a die hard fan of the character from the comics/animation etc., complaints like this are totally valid. you can whine about it all you want, but thats a fact.

 

[Rock Sexton]

um.
All I said was that it's easier to partition tasks when you have a group. The rest was whedon joke and a good one at that.

Just because Cap doles them out, it doesn't make them any "easier" to accomplish as you continue to insinuate.

If superman had a partner when fighting zod, perhaps he could fight zod one on one(the way batman fights bane), and his partner, let's use super girl in this example, could run into buildings and help people huddled together.

When they make a JLA film and superman has his hands full and flash doesn't run around saving people or something of that nature, I'll be right there will all these people that keep bringing up "the Cap scene". Till then your words ring even truer than you know. It's a different kind of fight.

Saving people and "fighting" are two different elements here. A man like Superman with his super speed and strength can't zip around and save someone real fast after distracting or temporarily subjogating his foe? Have you never seen a Superman film before?

Btw 6 vs 6000 as you put it and they still somehow find time to keep regrouping and strategizing and even a circular group hero shot. Notice how much time Superman had to do that in his Zod fight? Either they simply had more "down time" or they simply didn't care for all the damage being caused in those few minutes.

Or they ended up in the same area as dictated by the attacks being leveled .... just like how Zod miracuously ended up in a place where there were randomly scattered humans in debris, just so he could attempt to kill some, just so that we can get to the point where Superman has to make a choice to kill. Oh and by the way the man he chooses to kill miracously becomes an immovable object after we spent quite a bit of time establishing during the backyard brawl that Supes could most definitely knock him around.

You would never patronize that "convenient" plot device now would you?

On another note, I think people would be crying blood murder if superman faced the same situation and ended up nuking an entire alien fleet. Sucks but it's true.

There you go again with the blanket statements about how everyone feels.

 

[The Guard]

Sorry, but I really didn't see Superman not having the upper hand in the fight. If anything it was fairly equal and it shouldn't have been considering the difference in their fighting skills.

Then you weren't paying attention closely enough. Superman was getting his butt handed him to him until the last third or so of the fight.

I would've wanted to see Superman on his knees, really taking a beating. Then I'll believe Zod had the upper hand. Otherwise he just seemed like a bull in a china shop not able to control his powers. The imbalance was lazily shown considering one was a farmboy and the other a warrior.

No, it wasn't lazily shown. Superman is clearly shown getting his butt handed to him for most of the fight. There's an actual scene where he's on his knees and Zod basically says "Dude, I'm so much better trained than you are".

I'm sorry, but no. You've made some good points so far but claiming that Zod intentionally threw Superman through as many buildings as possible is just ridiculous.

Or it could be me watching the movie where Zod grabs Superman and purposely throws him through buildings...

It didn't feel dangerous in Man of Steel.

Whatever that means.

I guess in this context it means the movie didn't tell you it felt dangerous so you didn't make the obvious connection between falling buildings and danger...

Some of you need to get over this obsession with "convenient" and "contrived" writing you have. It amounts to nothing but buzzwords when you use it as such. Most writing is convenient and contrived. That is its nature.

 

[GregComicFan]

Here's my two cents on the whole "Superman killed at the end of MOS" debate:

Superman killed another kryptonian, not a human. So big deal...

If Superman went around killing every HUMAN villain, then yes, that would be a scary thing, because all humans know Superman is unstopable (no human military or weapon can hurt him). But if Superman kills another Kryptonian, especially one who is out of control and trying to destroy the planet and can't be reasoned with, who cares if Superman kills him? They are on equal ground. It would be like if Jesus Christ killed Lucifer... both Biblical and "other-worldly" figures... but if Jesus came down to Earth and just started brutally killing all human criminals, then Jesus would be dark, gritty, and very frightening...

I think as long as Ka-El takes a stance against killing all humans, then his character's moral compass stays intact.

But if Superman kills Darkseid (another alien) or Brianiac (a machine)... who cares?

 

[Marvin]

Here's my two cents on the whole "Superman killed at the end of MOS" debate:

Superman killed another kryptonian, not a human. So big deal...

If Superman went around killing every HUMAN villain, then yes, that would be a scary thing, because all humans know Superman is unstopable (no human military or weapon can hurt him). But if Superman kills another Kryptonian, especially one who is out of control and trying to destroy the planet and can't be reasoned with, who cares if Superman kills him? They are on equal ground. It would be like if Jesus Christ killed Lucifer... both Biblical and "other-worldly" figures... but if Jesus came down to Earth and just started brutally killing all human criminals, then Jesus would be dark, gritty, and very frightening...

I think as long as Ka-El takes a stance against killing all humans, then his character's moral compass stays intact.

But if Superman kills Darkseid (another alien) or Brianiac (a machine)... who cares?

So you think the no killing rule shouldn't apply to other non humans? Say if supergirl turns evil or wonder woman, or most of the Green Lantern core..etc?