Sequels Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

[braincrusher]

This is my theory. Cage is introduced as Nick Fury's old buddy from the mean streets of detroit or wherever. That story will be told in a retro story with iron fist set in the late 70's. Cage will be used to surprise attack and muscle the hulk into a vibranium rocket to send him to space and replace him on the team until the final movie when a pissed off hulk returns to a world destroyed by ultron. Obviously the hulk will have a bone to pick with cage. Could this work?

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

wut.

No I don't think that could work. Luke Cage could hardly out-muscle Captain America. Let alone Hulk. Hulk would smash puny Power Man.

Cage and Fury are both from New York. Harlem and NYC respectively. But I dont think they were very close friends in the comics (one being a government spy and one being private investigation).

A lot of people want to see Hulk blasted into space for one reason or the other (including myself) and I wouldn't mind seeing a world destroyed by Ultron. So those parts of your theory could be entertaining.

 

[Hawkingbird]

Well, I'd love to see Cage. However I agree with proxy- I don't think he'd be able to go up against Hulk.

 

[Hypestyle]

lol, we'll see, but Cage probably won't happen within the Avengers movies.

 

[braincrusher]

Cage is used just to push him in when the hulk is vulnerable. He isn't going to be squaring off with him until much later. Make cage a super cocky brute type that never backs down and have him get demolished by the hulk

 

[Artistsean]

My idea:
I would have Luke Cage be a prisoner who was experimented on like in the comics,
but I would make the experiment connected to the Super Soldier program. In Avengers
(and Incredible Hulk) they revealed that Bruce Banner was turned into the Hulk
because of an attempt at recreating the Super Soldier Serum/experiment. I think it
should be that either AIM, SHIELD, or even Hydra, tried to recreate the same program
using prison inmates as test subjects and just so happened used a man who was
framed for murder. He became Luke Cage and broke out. His powers would be like
Captain America's except his skin would be more indestructable like the Hulk and his
strength would be greater (between Cap's and the Hulk's). He would sort of bridge the
gap of those two.

 

[braincrusher]

I like that theory, that works. A step below hulk and above captain america. In my opinion he fits in to the avengers very well. Kind of a loud badass type. They need another brawler type

 

[Ant-manic]

My idea:
I would have Luke Cage be a prisoner who was experimented on like in the comics,
but I would make the experiment connected to the Super Soldier program.

they are connected to the super soldier program in the books.

 

[cherokeesam]

they are connected to the super soldier program in the books.

Not to mention that AIM is doing exactly what Artistsean described in the IM3 movie by creating Extremis soldiers.

I could definitely see Cage's inmate guinea pig backstory being retrofitted for AIM's Extremis soldier program. Only downside to that is that Cage wouldn't necessarily seem that unique, since there would be several Extremis Soldiers already (including Coldblood, Firepower, Ellen Brandt and a few others who haven't been named/ID'ed yet). You'd have to do something to differentiate Cage from just another "run of the mill" Extremis flunky.

 

[Ant-manic]

Not to mention that AIM is doing exactly what Artistsean described in the IM3 movie by creating Extremis soldiers.

I could definitely see Cage's inmate guinea pig backstory being retrofitted for AIM's Extremis soldier program. Only downside to that is that Cage wouldn't necessarily seem that unique, since there would be several Extremis Soldiers already (including Coldblood, Firepower, Ellen Brandt and a few others who haven't been named/ID'ed yet). You'd have to do something to differentiate Cage from just another "run of the mill" Extremis flunky.

what he chooses to do with the powers is what differentiates him. he's basically the only hero operating out of hulk-destroyed Harlem. and it could always be explained that the scientist overseeing the experiment is actually an A.I.M employee who had a change of heart; using a variant of the banned experiment. or maybe he's someone that was put into protective custody after defecting from A.I.M.

 

[InternetPeople]

Wait, Hulk > Cage > Cap? Do you really want Cage to be better than Captain America? I don't read comics, though I have read a lot of information recently online about these characters. What I do know is that Cap is special and unique and should be kept that way. Having Cage go through the same process and come out better than Cap would simply make Cap a joke. Cage needs to get his powers in some other fashion, not a supier soldier serum. That method is played out.

And experimenting on prisoners to give them super powers is the dumbest idea ever. When you inevitably succeed you will have given a criminal super powers. Good idea!

 

[Artistsean]

First, Cage was created in the comics when an experiment was tested on inmates. He became strong and bullet proof.
From Comicvine.com

Willis planted drugs in Lucas' Harlem apartment and tipped off the cops. Lucas is then wrongly convicted and imprisoned. Lucas then volunteers for an experiment which will shorten his sentence. Dr. Noah Burstein puts Lucas in an electrical field with a chemical compound, leaving him unattended for a moment. Rackham tampers with the controls, causing an overload. Pushed way past its original intent, the resulting incident empowers Lucas with super strength and gives him nearly impervious skin. Lucas uses his power to escape from the prison and later makes his way back to New York City.

The idea isn't that he is better than Captain America, Cap has the training, but more importantly the character/ the heart. His personality is different. He is more selfless, not that Cage is a bad guy, but he is a different person that Cap. He decided to use his powers to get money in the Heroes for Hire. He is also a little angrier and less patient, and not a strategist with military training, and hasn't been through WWII.
The idea is already on its way, Red Skull was the 1st Super Soldier, but it didn't work exactly. Zemo experimented with his version of the Super Soldier Serum on Bucky, which will be explored in Cap 2 with the Winter Soldier. Ross used the serum on Blonsky and made him the Abomination. Banner told Cap in the Avengers that he becomes the Hulk as a result of experimenting with the Super Soldier Serum. So in effect Hulk > Captain America.
This would just go along with the Ultimate comics idea that many characters powers can be traced back to the Soldier Soldier Experiment Race, like there was the Moon Race and the Nuclear Power Race in real life. In the Marvel movie universe there could be the Super Soldier Race.
In would be a similar idea to Stark's arc reactor being traced back to the cosmic cube which came from Thor's Asgard. So Stark's repulsar Blasts and arc reactor can be connected to Thor. Connecting a few Marvel characters to Cap would help. (Just like I think Black Widow's stingers should be traced back to Pym and Wasp's Stingers.)

Cage would be, like Cap and like Hulk and like Blonsky, another unexpected, and unrecreatable result. They didn't expect him to become like he did, but then they also couldn't control him. And they can't make another one of him. But it also bridges the gap between Hulk and Cap, why did Hulk become so different than Cap? Well, maybe not so different if Cage is similar to both.

For anyone worried that Cage is more powerful than Captain America and Cap would be a Joke, no he wouldn't.
Cap, in hand to hand combat, might beat Cage. He has the training, the skills, the shield, the heart. etc. But also Thor is stronger than Captain America and so is the Hulk.

And anyway, it just an idea. A way to bring in Cage, and his origin, while still trying him into the Marvel universe without making it expand too much, keeping it small and connected and stuff.

 

[InternetPeople]

Would you test a serum on the dudes in Guantanamo that could potentially make them super strong or whatever? Someone didn't think this through all the way.

Experimenting on a convicted criminal, where the outcome could lead to them becoming powerful and uncontrollable, is dumb, not to mention experimenting on convicted criminals is illegal. You're telling me you couldn't find a volunteer without a criminal record?

How Blonsky got his powers is more in line with how the government would go about testing serums on people; find a volunteer or a soldier...like Cap. The problem with Blonsky is they didn't do a psych evaluation on him to understand what they were doing to his head. Then he got all mixed up turning him into Abomination...a monster...which wasn't exactly the government's fault.

Banner didn't follow the same process and, naturally, got a different result. Yes, he was attempting to recreate the super-soldier serum but he failed, ultimately creating an uncontrollable monster.

As I understand it, Red Skull used the serum before it was perfected and ended up looking like he does...a monster.

We will see if Bucky gets some version of super-soldier serum in the film. My understanding was that he doesn't but then I can plead ignorance on the subject. We'll see how it plays out in the MCU.

Cap is the only one who got the desired effects. His mind is right and he is awesome. Having Cage go through the same program and end up stronger and more indestructable would make Cap look weaker. Yes, Cap has training but that is a learned skill, one that Cage could learn too.

Thor is a God and not part of the super-soldier experiments. He doesn't belong in this comparison. This is not just comparing who is stronger but rather the results of the Super-Soldier experiments. Hulk is stronger than Cap but he is also uncontrollable. Cap has no downside unlike everyone else who has unergone the experiment.

Everyone who has done the experiment has turned into a monster except for Cap. Experimenting on another and not having him turn into a monster would tarnish the "perfection" that they achieved with Cap. If Cage looked or acted like a monster then I wouldn't say anything, but he looks and acts normal which, I believe, diminishes Cap. (Saying Cap would be a joke was too harsh)

Testing on prisoners, regardless of that being the comic origin or not, is still dumb for all the obvious reasons.

Thanks for the conversation.

 

[Artistsean]

Clearly you do not like my idea at all. Thats fine. You don't have to. There is no need at all to get aggressive with your aversion to my ideas. I like it. I
just wanted to present my ideas. And like you said you don't read comics. And just in case I wasn't clear enough, below I will elaborate on my ideas.

Thanks Ant-manic, cherokeesam, raincrusher for liking my ideas. Not saying they are right, just that it helps keep things connected. I would have it be like in the Ultimate comics, with the Super Soldier Arms Race and even have Spider-Man and Green Goblin connected to the Serum if they were part of the Marvel movie universe.

Would you test a serum on the dudes in Guantanamo that could potentially make them super strong or whatever? Someone didn't think this through all the way.

Experimenting on a convicted criminal, where the outcome could lead to them becoming powerful and uncontrollable, is dumb, not to mention experimenting on convicted criminals is illegal. You're telling me you couldn't find a volunteer without a criminal record?

How Blonsky got his powers is more in line with how the government would go about testing serums on people; find a volunteer or a soldier...like Cap. The problem with Blonsky is they didn't do a psych evaluation on him to understand what they were doing to his head. Then he got all mixed up turning him into Abomination...a monster...which wasn't exactly the government's fault.

Banner didn't follow the same process and, naturally, got a different result. Yes, he was attempting to recreate the super-soldier serum but he failed, ultimately creating an uncontrollable monster.

As I understand it, Red Skull used the serum before it was perfected and ended up looking like he does...a monster.

We will see if Bucky gets some version of super-soldier serum in the film. My understanding was that he doesn't but then I can plead ignorance on the subject. We'll see how it plays out in the MCU.

Cap is the only one who got the desired effects. His mind is right and he is awesome. Having Cage go through the same program and end up stronger and more indestructable would make Cap look weaker. Yes, Cap has training but that is a learned skill, one that Cage could learn too.

Thor is a God and not part of the super-soldier experiments. He doesn't belong in this comparison. This is not just comparing who is stronger but rather the results of the Super-Soldier experiments. Hulk is stronger than Cap but he is also uncontrollable. Cap has no downside unlike everyone else who has unergone the experiment.

Everyone who has done the experiment has turned into a monster except for Cap. Experimenting on another and not having him turn into a monster would tarnish the "perfection" that they achieved with Cap. If Cage looked or acted like a monster then I wouldn't say anything, but he looks and acts normal which, I believe, diminishes Cap. (Saying Cap would be a joke was too harsh)

Testing on prisoners, regardless of that being the comic origin or not, is still dumb for all the obvious reasons.

Thanks for the conversation.

Comicvine.com

Luke Cage, wrongly convicted and unjustly imprisoned, was altered in a failed
prison experiment that granted him bulletproof skin and super-human strength.

Spoiler

Its also been done in the X-Statix comic with the Bush Rangers:

Criminals experimented on and the few survivors mutated into super monster criminals.

The concept of experimenting on prisoners is his origin. So either they use it and keep
it similar to the comic or they change it and make it different and perhaps upset some
fans. But the idea of experimenting on criminals with the super soldier serum could
easily be explained. In the comics, Ultimates at least, SHIELD had experimented on
several test groups of SHIELD agents and all of them died, group after group of like 20
men, all dead because of the serum. Banner (in the Ultimates, which it seems
Avengers is going with) accidentally became the Hulk because of a similar Super
Soldier experiment. But they could easily explain that they didn't want to continue to
kill soldiers so they started experimenting on criminals. And it can be shown that they
took every foreseeable precaution in case he did become strong and powerful. With
guards, locking his amrs and legs down, gas, etc. Just like the cell they created for
Loki. But when the experiment went wrong those precautions didn't help.
If its Hydra or AIM doing it it could be explained as they don't care about the morals,
and they can't do the experiments legally so they took over a prison for the test
subjects, who they would kill anyway even if it worked.
If it was SHIELD, they maybe picked men from Death row who they knew were good
men, maybe men who they could tell would be good guys but were convicted and this
was their only way out or something.
I don't know, I am not writing a whole script here. Just coming up with some ideas.
The results wouldn't be the exact results that happened to Captain America, Cage
wouldn't increase in mass like Steve, and he wouldn't have developed anything but
strength and bullet proof skin. No increased agility, speed, increased brain power
(which I think Cap has that allows him to think faster), and no military training.

Either way, its just my idea of how to keep the Marvel universe from getting over
blown, like how Hulk is connected to the Super Soldier Serum instead of a gamma
radiation experiment, while still keeping Cage's origin from the comic intact.
An alternative is that he was never a criminal, but some might feel its important to his
character that he be a wrongfully convicted man who is nearly killed but turns into a
superhero.
Another, keeping his origin exactly the same as the comic, have him be a criminal
experimented on, but have the experiment have NOTHING to do with the Super Soldier
Serum and expand the Marvel world a little with another random experiment leading to
a superhero by accident.

The comic facts are, Cage was a wrongfully convicted man, prisoner experimented on,
turned into a superhero. He was given bullet proof skin, and super strength.

Cap is a man who, because of the super soldier serum, was turned into a man at
the peak of everything. He is as strong, as fast, and agile, as a human can possibly
be.

Hulk is a seemingly unstoppable, super strong, bullet proof, monster created (in the
movie) by the super soldier serum experiments.

Oh, and the director on the Cap commentary [BLACKOUT]pointed out that Zemo did experiment on Bucky.[/BLACKOUT]

Super Soldier Serum --> Red Skull --> Captain Amereica --> Hulk and Winter Soldier -->and maybe Cage, Spider-man, and Green Goblin

 

[InternetPeople]

Wrongfully convicted or not does not matter (It's not obvious someone is wrongfully convicted until they are set free anyway. It would be coincidental that you would be experimenting on a guy who happens to be innocent. If you ask them, they're all innocent, right?). For the same reasons you would not give a prisoner a gun, you would not give a prisoner super powers. There is a fundamental problem with logic here that cannot be "easily explained" to anyone with a working brain (which admittedly, are very few people).

"But they could easily explain that they didn't want to continue to kill soldiers so they started experimenting on criminals. And it can be shown that they took every foreseeable precaution in case he did become strong and powerful. With guards, locking his arms and legs down, gas, etc. Just like the cell they created for Loki. But when the experiment went wrong those precautions didn't help."

Well, duh. These problems are forseeable, as I have been saying. It's painfully obvious that experimenting on prisoners or those of questionable mental fortitude, will only lead to bad outcomes...besides being ILLEGAL under both national and international law. A group like AIM (like they are doing with extremis) or HYDRA (like they apparently did with Bucky and I wil assume others) makes more sense that an "upstanding" institution conducting those experiments. No matter what, the organization that is conducting these experiments are driving for a particular outcome, meaning they will want to control the individual receiving whatever it is that is happening to them.

I think Death Row is probably the worst place to find "good people." I'm guessing they did something bad, likely very bad, to be put on death row. Just a hunch. The problems arise not if the prisoner dies, but rather if the prisoner LIVES. Whoops!

If a couple Fanboys get pissy, so be it. The GA pays more money than a couple fanboys ever will.

I fell asleep the last time I tried watching the commentary on Cap's film. I will have to attempt it again someday.

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

Cage would be too old and weak, and there's not enough vibranium for that.

 

[Artistsean]

Wrongfully convicted or not does not matter (It's not obvious someone is wrongfully convicted until they are set free anyway. It would be coincidental that you would be experimenting on a guy who happens to be innocent. If you ask them, they're all innocent, right?). For the same reasons you would not give a prisoner a gun, you would not give a prisoner super powers. There is a fundamental problem with logic here that cannot be "easily explained" to anyone with a working brain (which admittedly, are very few people).

"But they could easily explain that they didn't want to continue to kill soldiers so they started experimenting on criminals. And it can be shown that they took every foreseeable precaution in case he did become strong and powerful. With guards, locking his arms and legs down, gas, etc. Just like the cell they created for Loki. But when the experiment went wrong those precautions didn't help."

Well, duh. These problems are forseeable, as I have been saying. It's painfully obvious that experimenting on prisoners or those of questionable mental fortitude, will only lead to bad outcomes...besides being ILLEGAL under both national and international law. A group like AIM (like they are doing with extremis) or HYDRA (like they apparently did with Bucky and I wil assume others) makes more sense that an "upstanding" institution conducting those experiments. No matter what, the organization that is conducting these experiments are driving for a particular outcome, meaning they will want to control the individual receiving whatever it is that is happening to them.

I think Death Row is probably the worst place to find "good people." I'm guessing they did something bad, likely very bad, to be put on death row. Just a hunch. The problems arise not if the prisoner dies, but rather if the prisoner LIVES. Whoops!

If a couple Fanboys get pissy, so be it. The GA pays more money than a couple fanboys ever will.

I fell asleep the last time I tried watching the commentary on Cap's film. I will have to attempt it again someday.

There is a fundamental problem with logic here that cannot be "easily explained" to anyone with a working brain (which admittedly, are very few people).

Ok, Mr. Working brain, whats your ideas for bringing Luke Cage into the Marvel movie universe?

 

[cherokeesam]

Wrongfully convicted or not does not matter (It's not obvious someone is wrongfully convicted until they are set free anyway. It would be coincidental that you would be experimenting on a guy who happens to be innocent. If you ask them, they're all innocent, right?). For the same reasons you would not give a prisoner a gun, you would not give a prisoner super powers. There is a fundamental problem with logic here that cannot be "easily explained" to anyone with a working brain (which admittedly, are very few people).

"But they could easily explain that they didn't want to continue to kill soldiers so they started experimenting on criminals. And it can be shown that they took every foreseeable precaution in case he did become strong and powerful. With guards, locking his arms and legs down, gas, etc. Just like the cell they created for Loki. But when the experiment went wrong those precautions didn't help."

Well, duh. These problems are forseeable, as I have been saying. It's painfully obvious that experimenting on prisoners or those of questionable mental fortitude, will only lead to bad outcomes...besides being ILLEGAL under both national and international law. A group like AIM (like they are doing with extremis) or HYDRA (like they apparently did with Bucky and I wil assume others) makes more sense that an "upstanding" institution conducting those experiments. No matter what, the organization that is conducting these experiments are driving for a particular outcome, meaning they will want to control the individual receiving whatever it is that is happening to them.

I think Death Row is probably the worst place to find "good people." I'm guessing they did something bad, likely very bad, to be put on death row. Just a hunch. The problems arise not if the prisoner dies, but rather if the prisoner LIVES. Whoops!

If a couple Fanboys get pissy, so be it. The GA pays more money than a couple fanboys ever will.

I fell asleep the last time I tried watching the commentary on Cap's film. I will have to attempt it again someday.

Let it go. *You* don't like the idea of them experimenting on prisoners (maybe because the cops are villains....? ), but it doesn't stop the fact that it's *exactly* what happened in the comics. That's Luke's origin; that's Luke's backstory; that's what shapes Luke's philosophy on life and gives him something to fight for. Fans will expect and want that backstory, and Marvel doesn't deviate far from the origin stories of any of their heroes.

 

[InternetPeople]

Experimenting on prisoners is akin to torture which is wrong. When the outcome could be a super powered villain, that is stupid. Why would you give someone who obviously does not possess a good moral compass super human abilities? That is stupid on it's face. You don't have to be smart to realize that. What if whle experimenting on a prisoner you make a Hulk type character? You're ****ed. Right there is the problem.

I am not a comic writer, nor do I read comics. I like the films and I want to know more about the stories and characters that will be added. I am not about to try my hand at creating an origin for a character I am unfamiliar with (nor am I dumb enough to open myself to that kind of scrutiny). That said, if I were writing comics I wouldn't make the origin story something as silly as experimenting on a prisoner. It's illogical and lazy.

Having Cage be a good guy and just wrongfully imprisoned is too convenient and ridiculous to be easily accepted. Remember in Spider-Man 3 when Sandman escaped? He was running through a field that just happened to have an experiment running which turned him into Sandman? Yeah, that was awfully convenient timing guys. If that is the origin story then so be it, but it is lazy writing and the fans noticed. Maybe there are too many characters and you needed some unique way for a character to get his powers. OK but that doesn't change the fact it's kinda weak writing.

If you read what I wrote, I did like the idea of AIM or HYDRA having a hand in Cage's creation, as those organizations don't care about laws or morals. Don't get all defensive (I rather enjoy talking to you). You don't have any more invested in these characters than I do. We're both merely fans.

I am a little surprised you are willing to go along with the Marvel origin considering the obvious logic issue at play with Cage's prisoner origin. Whether you agree it is lazy or not, there is still a problem. That's all I am saying.

 

[Ant-manic]

Wait, Hulk > Cage > Cap? Do you really want Cage to be better than Captain America? I don't read comics, though I have read a lot of information recently online about these characters. What I do know is that Cap is special and unique and should be kept that way. Having Cage go through the same process and come out better than Cap would simply make Cap a joke. Cage needs to get his powers in some other fashion, not a supier soldier serum. That method is played out.

it's a chemical bath; not a super-soldier serum. that's how the racist guard is able to tamper with it. he tried to, basically, cook Cage alive. and it was the tampering that altered the outcome of the experiment; making Luke's powers somewhat unique. Captain America isn't bullet proof. and Cage is not "better" than Cap because of a powerset any more than Thor is better than both.

as for the experimentation on prisoners, maybe they were attempting to make some kind of temporary liquid body armor for army personnel. enhanced strength might not have been an expected outcome. perhaps the warden is a crooked enough individual to allow experimentation of this sort (provided that the prisoner volunteered) for money.

 

[Diamondhead]

lol, we'll see, but Cage probably won't happen within the Avengers movies.

Maybe in Spiderman .
he’d be hired by Jameson to capture the wall crawler just like in the old comics
I think cage's just a little stronger than Spidey, but the lack of agilities gives Spiderman a big advantage over him.
As for going against the hulk! Why not?
He can punch the hulk to no avail and the hulk punch back and throws him across buildings.

 

[Spider-Vader]

Wait, Hulk > Cage > Cap? Do you really want Cage to be better than Captain America? I don't read comics, though I have read a lot of information recently online about these characters. What I do know is that Cap is special and unique and should be kept that way. Having Cage go through the same process and come out better than Cap would simply make Cap a joke. Cage needs to get his powers in some other fashion, not a supier soldier serum. That method is played out.

And experimenting on prisoners to give them super powers is the dumbest idea ever. When you inevitably succeed you will have given a criminal super powers. Good idea!

Cap's powers aren't what makes him special it's his leadership ability and his character that makes him special. I thought the latter was made pretty obvious in his movie.

As for how Cage should enter the MCU, it should be in Heroes for Hire. If you use Luke's regular origins, it can be quickly explained in HFH; it's pretty simple and I don't think Luke can hold a movie on his own. Though, I do his think his best friend Iron Fist could support a solo movie.

 

[cherokeesam]

Experimenting on prisoners is akin to torture which is wrong. When the outcome could be a super powered villain, that is stupid. Why would you give someone who obviously does not possess a good moral compass super human abilities? That is stupid on it's face. You don't have to be smart to realize that. What if whle experimenting on a prisoner you make a Hulk type character? You're ****ed. Right there is the problem.

I am not a comic writer, nor do I read comics. I like the films and I want to know more about the stories and characters that will be added. I am not about to try my hand at creating an origin for a character I am unfamiliar with (nor am I dumb enough to open myself to that kind of scrutiny). That said, if I were writing comics I wouldn't make the origin story something as silly as experimenting on a prisoner. It's illogical and lazy.

Having Cage be a good guy and just wrongfully imprisoned is too convenient and ridiculous to be easily accepted. Remember in Spider-Man 3 when Sandman escaped? He was running through a field that just happened to have an experiment running which turned him into Sandman? Yeah, that was awfully convenient timing guys. If that is the origin story then so be it, but it is lazy writing and the fans noticed. Maybe there are too many characters and you needed some unique way for a character to get his powers. OK but that doesn't change the fact it's kinda weak writing.

If you read what I wrote, I did like the idea of AIM or HYDRA having a hand in Cage's creation, as those organizations don't care about laws or morals. Don't get all defensive (I rather enjoy talking to you). You don't have any more invested in these characters than I do. We're both merely fans.

I am a little surprised you are willing to go along with the Marvel origin considering the obvious logic issue at play with Cage's prisoner origin. Whether you agree it is lazy or not, there is still a problem. That's all I am saying.

Sure, experimenting on prisoners is torture and morally wrong. But the people who did it in the comics were morally wrong. Heck, they did it for purely racist reasons. Not everybody who wears a "good guy hat" is actually a good guy at all. In the 1970s, when the character and his backstory were conceived, this was all edgy and groundbreaking stuff --- dealing with crooked cops/wardens, overt racism, torture and abuse in the prison system....It helped define who Luke Cage is, a guy who absolutely does not trust authority figures or people who pretend to be "good guys." If you just make his captors scenery-chewing villains like AIM or HYDRA, then it totally changes Cage's persona and his reason for becoming a superhero. Instead of becoming the mercenary free spirit we all know and love, he'd turn into a typical hero who's out for revenge against the bad guys who wronged him. Been there, done that. *That's* lazy writing.

 

[DrCosmic]

Experimenting on prisoners is akin to torture which is wrong. When the outcome could be a super powered villain, that is stupid. Why would you give someone who obviously does not possess a good moral compass super human abilities? That is stupid on it's face. You don't have to be smart to realize that. What if whle experimenting on a prisoner you make a Hulk type character? You're ****ed. Right there is the problem.

I am not a comic writer, nor do I read comics. I like the films and I want to know more about the stories and characters that will be added. I am not about to try my hand at creating an origin for a character I am unfamiliar with (nor am I dumb enough to open myself to that kind of scrutiny). That said, if I were writing comics I wouldn't make the origin story something as silly as experimenting on a prisoner. It's illogical and lazy.

Having Cage be a good guy and just wrongfully imprisoned is too convenient and ridiculous to be easily accepted. Remember in Spider-Man 3 when Sandman escaped? He was running through a field that just happened to have an experiment running which turned him into Sandman? Yeah, that was awfully convenient timing guys. If that is the origin story then so be it, but it is lazy writing and the fans noticed. Maybe there are too many characters and you needed some unique way for a character to get his powers. OK but that doesn't change the fact it's kinda weak writing.

If you read what I wrote, I did like the idea of AIM or HYDRA having a hand in Cage's creation, as those organizations don't care about laws or morals. Don't get all defensive (I rather enjoy talking to you). You don't have any more invested in these characters than I do. We're both merely fans.

I am a little surprised you are willing to go along with the Marvel origin considering the obvious logic issue at play with Cage's prisoner origin. Whether you agree it is lazy or not, there is still a problem. That's all I am saying.

I guess if you perceive the prison system to be a logical upstanding place, and the justice system to be largely... just, and many people believe so, that makes sense. The reality though is that a lot of people saying they are innocent indicates that at least some are right, not that all are wrong, and the reality is that prisoners are experimented on, and sometimes the results are surprising. If AIM needs to run a prison for the audience to get that, do that, but it's not actually unrealistic.

Removing the coincidence factor is as simple as extending his origin story to twenty minutes instead of the two that Sandman got. All the origins are rife with coincidences, its only your emotional investment in the character that gets you to overlook that.

This is my theory. Cage is introduced as Nick Fury's old buddy from the mean streets of detroit or wherever. That story will be told in a retro story with iron fist set in the late 70's. Cage will be used to surprise attack and muscle the hulk into a vibranium rocket to send him to space and replace him on the team until the final movie when a pissed off hulk returns to a world destroyed by ultron. Obviously the hulk will have a bone to pick with cage. Could this work?

I like Cage, but part of what makes Hulk Hulk is that he's a monster. Cage isn't a monster, so he can't really replace Hulk.

And I don't know where in the world you guys get Captain America being remotely in the same weight class with Luke Cage. Cage is practically class 100, and has been up there with She-Hulk, Thing and Colossus in terms of strength for some time.

 

[InternetPeople]

I didn't say the justice system is just, I said that experimentation on prisoners where an outcome could be positive for the prisoner is illogical.

That a lot of people sitting in jail are saying they are innocent does not prove they are innocent. It does prove that our legal system is founded on a "innocent until proven guilty" and "guilt is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt." If the guilty can create doubt, then they are as innocent as OJ.

Would you mind providing a source for prisoner experimentations you are claiming to exist? I am not being combative, just curious.

Origin
If Cage has had a history of incarceration, it wouldn't be hard to sell that he is wrongfully convicted and putting a black man in jail is, unfortunately, really easy in this country. If you want to make experimenting on prisoners "normal" that's fine, but to give a prisoner, i.e. someone you want to control, powers that makes them uncontrollable...well, that's dumb. A volunteer is the only way you can guarantee compliance. Prisoners are inherently non-compliant.

If AIM or HYDRA or some organization like that were running the prison, you could say they are looking for not-nice people as volunteers. If the prison was attempting to make a stable of villains and grabbed Cage, who was trying to turn his life around before his wrongful imprisonment, and they experimented on him with the understanding he would be a villain...that could work better but then you would need to explain all these minor villains running around as Cage wasn't the only one getting powers. Cage's innocence is eventually proven, he is released and forms Heroes for Hire and everyone lives happily ever after.

There is a giant assumption being made by the experimenter that Cage would be a villain based on his history. If you can get an audience to believe that, then experimenting on prisoners by an evil organization becomes believable. (This origin isn't much different than Blonsky/Abomination actually; giving a power to someone you think you can control until you cannot and they switch sides)