Marvel's Declining Quality

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Unfortunately half that list is on th' cancellation block.

 

[Varient]

I think Marvel is kicking ass. I'm loving Planet Hulk. I really like all of the Annihilation stuff. Civil War is going to rock. DD is at it's best. So is Cap for that matter. Thor is coming back.

And hey, the dialogue NOW freakin' OWNS the dialogue of the 90's and before. Quality beats quantity every time. And damn, you read fast because it takes me as much as 30 minutes to read an issue.

There are some awesome titles out right now, you just need to find the ones you are most into.

(raised eyebrow)

"thirty minutes?"

 

[Varient]

Unfortunately half that list is on th' cancellation block.

(smirk)

Didn't I already go off on that in the "Pull my thing" thread?

Marvels reasoning for cancelling books, .................... ..................... ....................... ........................... .............................. Sucks.

 

[tuskenjedi]

I'm not a big fan of most of Marvel's titles right now. There are a few that are still enjoyable, but overall I look forward to my DC titles more these days. Marvel's creative direction is primarily in the hands of those who seem to have very different ideas about what's good and what's not. I've resigned myself to just waiting to see who'll inevitably replace them down the line and hoping they'll be better.

I agree with you on that! I used to not even own a DC comic. Now I get more DC comics each month than I get Marvel comics. DC really has their act together now. I really like how they seem to have a cohesive universe now. Things that happen in one book effect things in other books. Even if they don't have a direct impact, they are at least acknowledged. You just don't get that with Marvel that much. Sure, the Spidey books interact a little, the X-Books interact with one another, but not across the Marvel Universe. It's like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing over there sometimes. Wolverine for example is all over the place all the time and never acknowledges what is going on elsewhere in the Marvel Universe. I'm beginning to think that he has a secondary mutation that allows him to make duplicates like Madrox does. It's the only logical explanation.

 

[Darthphere]

As has been said, Marvel has plenty of quality books.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Yeah, DC's lured me in. I've actually started gettin' Teen Titans. Teen freakin' Titans. That's how bad things get when Teen Titans is a book I actually LIKE.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

I think Marvel is kicking ass. I'm loving Planet Hulk. I really like all of the Annihilation stuff. Civil War is going to rock. DD is at it's best. So is Cap for that matter. Thor is coming back.

And hey, the dialogue NOW freakin' OWNS the dialogue of the 90's and before. Quality beats quantity every time. And damn, you read fast because it takes me as much as 30 minutes to read an issue.

There are some awesome titles out right now, you just need to find the ones you are most into.

I agree here, 2 years ago I was 80% DC but now? It's more like 60% to Marvel, they've drawn me in with some of the more dramatic changes and intriguing storylines that I would have never thought to see.

Of course the entire basis for the initial post in this thread is flawed. To say that an entire franchise is declining based on the fact that your favorite group isn't where you want it is kinda sad.

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah, DC's lured me in. I've actually started gettin' Teen Titans. Teen freakin' Titans. That's how bad things get when Teen Titans is a book I actually LIKE.

Teen Titans owns your soul.

 

[Lactophiliac]

. I counted the "word bubbles" and boxes describing what was happening and came up with the following results.

In a random older issue there were 287 bubbles and boxes in total.

A random current issue only had 145.

Is this something that we should tolerate especially considering the price has just gone up 50 cents again?!?!

So I do this "research"

I have James Brown, professor of English from Harvard University, and Joe Smith a Math teacher from a Toronto high school. I sit them down and give them an algebra test.

Joe Smith gets 98%
And James Brown gets 85%

Now which of the following conclusions should I draw from this.

A) Canadians are smarter then Americans
B) Joe Smith is Smarter then James Brown
C) Joe Smith is Better at algebra then James Brown

I think it's obvious which is the correct conclusion yet you figure that since your older comic book has more words in it then the newer one that ALL older comics have more words then newer ones AND that makes them better.

Did you ever think that maybe today the art can tell the store better? or maybe we just don't need as much pointless exposition? Or maybe even that older comic books don’t have more writing in them that and it takes you less time to read comics books now then 14 years ago because you’ve now been reading 14 years longer and maybe a little bit faster.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I think we pretty much covered more dialogue does not a good book make, Lac. Maybe we should all direct him towards Marvel's REAL current problems.

 

[herakles]

So far since I've been back reading comics again I am happy with marvel EXCEPT for THor being killed off but that will soon be rectified! I never been a fan of the x titles and Wolverine and I refuse to buy any Ultimate titles and marvel zombie mini.

Dialog is 1/2 of the story but if a story can be told with less dialog and the story coming off just well as if it had more dialog!

 

[iloveclones]

Well, put me in the category that thinks the premise is flawed. In fact, not only do I think that Marvel's books aren't in decline, I think they put out more good stuff now than ever before. They may have problems, but I think they're minor compared to problems of the past.

My only complaint about Marvel is that they suck up enough of my money that I don't have enough left for quality DC and independent stuff (which could easily double my comics budget), and wait for the trades where they're concerned. I love JSA, TT, Gotham Central, Invincible, Walking Dead, Ex Machina, and hear a lot of good things about a host of other titles that I'd love to keep current on. Not a bad problem to have.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I feel like a doofus for not figuring out Anihilus was the main baddie,

Lol, you and me both.

In regards to Marvel; i think they are producing some great stuff right now; Daredevil, Captain America, New Avengers, Sensational Spider-Man, Spider-Girl, Hulk, FF, The Thing, She-Hulk, Marvel Team-Up, 4, Annihilation....I just wish they'd put some fresh talant on ASM & FNSM....(i.e, Dan Slott, Bob Kirkman, Jeph Loeb, or Zeb Wells)...

I've found that the dialogue flows differently in each book...some take longer to read than others,....

 

[toya thegr8]

i have been hearing complaints about that everywhere i go. so far the only marvel comics i'm interested in are mini-series except black panther cuz storm is transferring, and nextwave. Dc is said to be doing more fan-pleasing. well, every company has its highs and lows..don't be surprise if soon a fantastic comic can shake things up.

 

[rjb182]

Well, I disagree with the idea that the quality isn't good... heck, I just *started* reading Marvel Comics again and I wouldn't have done that if I didn't enjoy them. I even like the stuff people complain about a lot, the X-Men and New Avengers...

HOWEVER, from my own observations, it does seem like the word count is way down from what it used to be in classic comics. Yeah, some of that was pointless exposition, but some of it was also dialogue and detail that I think is missing from newer stuff. It DOES take me a lot longer to read one of my X-Men back issues than the new "Astonishing," and yeah, I think that's a problem, because I'm not getting as much fun time per issue.

On the other hand, the art is a LOT more complex these days, so they probably are getting more out of that. If that was what you read comic books for, as many do, you'd have no complaints at all. Personally, as a writer who can't draw a straight line, I'm much more verbally oriented than visually oriented, so I'd prefer more words.

But I think that's only one aspect of the books' quality, and overall I still quite enjoy them.

 

[Elijya]

i have been hearing complaints about that everywhere i go. so far the only marvel comics i'm interested in are mini-series except black panther cuz storm is transferring, and nextwave. Dc is said to be doing more fan-pleasing. well, every company has its highs and lows..don't be surprise if soon a fantastic comic can shake things up.

check out some Slott, Burbaker, Vaughan and Kirkman, they've all got some very decent Marvel books

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I think Marvel's flagship franchises, Spider-man and X-Men are in serious decline right now. Spider-man in "Amazing" right now seems like Iron Man's sidekick, which is 100% against the character that Stan Lee created and it's not much better in "Friendly Neighborhood" where the past 30 years of Flash's character has been retconned and Spidey is fighting wrestlers.

The two main X-books are just plain boring, Apocalyspe trying to take over the world again using X-men transformed into horseman, yay. Only thing this time the new Death had no reason to go to Apocalyspe. In Uncanny we just finished another Sh'iar we must kill the Phoenix story that was complete garbage.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Pretty much what I was gonna add just now. Most of Marvel's A-books are th' ones suffering. Their B an' Cs are where th' real talent's at...but nobody's readin' 'cause it's not X-Men or Spider-Man.

 

[ImproveMarvel]

Hey guys, again, thanks for the replies. Any interest and discussion regarding the subject (no matter the opinion) is a positive thing in my book.

To address my main opinion with the quality, I’m not necessarily knocking all Marvel titles. As has been mentioned, New Avengers, Astonishing, and X-Factor have all been good reads. I think X-Men The End is also a fantastic title. And these can most likely be considered up to par with what Marvel should be making only too common IMO. It’s just, there’s way to many books out with entire pages in rather simple action shots. Astonishing #14? I really don’t think we needed 2 whole pages completely devoted to getting the point across that Kitty and Collossus are getting it on. Plus, many of there fighting sequences seem to be swaying more toward the classic DC words such as POW!!! and ZING!!! (not necessarily those exact words). Dialogue is not an evil thing; in the right hands (yes, same goes with the art) it can be fantastic. I’m just not picking up on much of that nowadays though.

Interesting thing about X-Factor and The End (I have yet to check other Marvel titles), I did another count (only took like a minute, so it wasn’t really a bunch of wasted time) and their bubble/block counts are somewhere in the 240 range. You should look into it, just grab an issue you enjoy or dislike and do a quick count, see if there’s a difference.

Oh yeah, one thing I came across in these discussions is that there are plenty of different ways to categorize the qualities of Marvel. It need not be the number of words in the text, or the style of art (with or without the splash pages), or even the price. Other types can include the very accessibility a person has to their comic retailer or the availability of certain issues. Personally, I’m pretty tired of the whole “Variant issues everywhere you look”. These all impact how much (and to what degrees) a person is willing accept in order to stay with a hobby or interest. If the pain is more than the interest is worth, then it most likely should go. But, again, being an avid reader for more than a decade, I also am willing to deal with a lot, but the price…….I dunno, it’s a bit excessive.

Concerning product placement, yeah, comics have always had it to one degree or another. The “subtle” method of advertising is fine but it’s when they’re totally blatant that gets me going. It’s like in I,Robot; suddenly taking out shoes and indicating that they’re “vintage” 2004 (or whatever) shoes is pretty insulting IMO. As soon as I see a character talking about their new Toyota truck or something in a comic, I’m ditching it.

I’ve heard mention that there was at least one case in the early 90’s or something (I dunno), where Marvel was forced to reduce its price after an increase simply because fans lost interest. Can anyone substantiate that?

Well, thanks again. I’ll be back.

 

[Elijya]

I think X-Men The End is also a fantastic title.

::

 

[3dman27]

i think decompressed storytelling may be the problem the stories seem to be too drawn out and photorealistic art ugh

 

[toya thegr8]

maybe civil war will..no?..nevermind then.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Decompression IS a main factor. This 6-issues fer TPBs crap.

 

[deathshead2]

Decompression IS a main factor. This 6-issues fer TPBs crap.

Yeah I hate that too. I really enjoy the way millar writes UFF with 3 issue story arcs that are good.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I miss th' days when it was just continuous. Every so often there'd be an official arc, but otherwise you'd have subplots that would run fer 20 or 30 issues or more.