Marvel's losing its edge and DC's getting its back

[chiefchirpa]

"Puyguy" is a resident DC fanatic/troll on that site. It trolled all Marvel-related articles. Please don't start to troll in here.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Rofl

 

[Thedudehimself]

wow that was bad. Not just the topic, but your writing style.

Well, the day you speak as good german as I speak english we can talk again.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Im going to be straight up honest. That article was f**king terrible. It was more of a pissed fanboy rant than an unbiased well researched article. You could have talked about DC getting better directors a but more, and Marvel rushing Thor along with the belief that a shared universe could hurt the scope of their movies in the long run, but you didn't do anything.

You pretty much did a jealous, (and the following word I do not use a lot nut it applies to well here) ******** DC fanboy rant that talks more about how much you dislike Marvel and what you think Marvel may do wrong instead of what Marvel has done wrong. There's not much about what DC can do to get the edge back either.

That article is the reason why CBM is such a hack of a website.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Well, the day you speak as good german as I speak english we can talk again.

Ich bin zwar nicht Bomber, vertrete ihn hier inhaltlich aber gerne, insofern ich dir eine offensichtliche Voreingenommenheit attestiere, die deiner Analyse des Themas objektiv schadet. Hinzz kommt, dass ich durchaus auch eine Meinung vertrete, die der deinen zwar nicht diametral entgegsteht, aber doch zu einer hohen Prozentzahl von deiner Meinung abweicht. Die Gründe dafür sind vielfältig, etwa andere Einschätzungen der professionellen Leistungen erwähnter Regisseure, wir können das auch gerne witer vertiefen, ich glaube aber an eine recht ergebnislose Diskussion und würde die dann doch gerne vermeiden.
Oder wie siehst du das?

 

[brainchild81]

You know what? Maybe we woulda been better off not having read that.

Ditto. I thought it was gonna be about the codename

 

[Thedudehimself]

Ich bin zwar nicht Bomber, vertrete ihn hier inhaltlich aber gerne, insofern ich dir eine offensichtliche Voreingenommenheit attestiere, die deiner Analyse des Themas objektiv schadet. Hinzz kommt, dass ich durchaus auch eine Meinung vertrete, die der deinen zwar nicht diametral entgegsteht, aber doch zu einer hohen Prozentzahl von deiner Meinung abweicht. Die Gründe dafür sind vielfältig, etwa andere Einschätzungen der professionellen Leistungen erwähnter Regisseure, wir können das auch gerne witer vertiefen, ich glaube aber an eine recht ergebnislose Diskussion und würde die dann doch gerne vermeiden.
Oder wie siehst du das?

Dude, wenn du schon auf "erhabene" Sprache machst, dann hättest du anstatt "vielfältig" lieber "mannigfaltig" sagen sollen. Außerdem zählt ein Österreicher nicht als jemand der das Recht hat die deutsche Sprache zu benutzen.

@Mods

Please forgive me for this, I am very well aware of the fact that the forums language here is english, but the guy above talked directly to me in german (choosing his words in a arrogant way, pretending he is the lingual king or something), so I had to response. I will not respond to this guy again, even if he talks to me in german again.

@Topic

Well, it is true that my article was more of a Anti-Marvel Studios rant than a good founded and reasearched study. But this is just the result from being utterly disappointed by Marvel Studios for the past 3 years. Ever since Iron Man 2, actually. You dont have to like this post, but it is my honest opinion at the moment.

Ok, "The Avengers" was quite good, as I said. And I also understand the succeess. Thats exactly what the GA wants to see nowadays, and at least its better than Transformers. The Avengers characzers have profile.

Marvel earns much money these days, but I still predict that wont last forever. They will reach a "dead point" eventually. Not sure if DC manages to get something off the ground, though.

One last thing:

To all of those who defend "Captain America: TFA" as a good movie. LOL? This is so sooo wrong. And thats not just me. Read many professional critics. Captain America TFA is the perfect blueprint for mediocre paint after numbers Hollywood CBM stuff.

If cap is in the vein of Indiana Jones, using much of the same elements, then why oh why is Indiana Jones like 1000 times more enjoyable? Id like to know this.

 

[Lord Valumart]

To all of those who defend "Captain America: TFA" as a good movie. LOL? This is so sooo wrong. And thats not just me. Read many professional critics. Captain America TFA is the perfect blueprint for mediocre paint after numbers Hollywood CBM stuff.

If cap is in the vein of Indiana Jones, using much of the same elements, then why oh why is Indiana Jones like 1000 times more enjoyable? Id like to know this.

Because, just looking at Raiders, Indiana Jones is a character that exists for that movie. Cap is a character with a background in comic books. There's things you have to do and things that people expect to see in one and not the other.

Indiana Jones - Professor goes looking for McGuffin that may have religious/magic/fictional powers. Also action and love interest.

Captain America - Steve Rogers is a weedy american who really wants to fight those nasty Nazis. Give him a thing to make him strong! Give him a flimsy character arc. There's a "cosmic" McGuffin he's trying to maybe get or stop someone using. Love interest, maybe? Also add in some easter eggs for fans.

Right from the off Cap is instantly laboured by the fact that it's an origin movie for a character with years worth of background to try to filter. Indy can do whatever the hell he wants because he just existed in that film. Other films will build upon what that film did and create a bigger universe. Caps universe is already made.

 

[Thedudehimself]

Well, Cap has been compared to Raiders ever since it went into production. It was constantly called "Marvels Indiana Jones". So it really has to take that comparsion. And in that comparsion Captain America loses. Its that simple.

But I dont want to rob the fun of anyone who liked CA:TFA. It might still be an enjoyable Comic-flick if you lower down your standards a bit.

 

[metaphysician]

I'm sorry, but anybody who thinks that Marvel has been successful by giving comic fans what they want is not paying enough attention. The comic fans don't matter, by and large. We are sources of hype, potentially, but nothing more. There are too few of us to matter.

Marvel has been consistently successful at selling their movies to the general audience, often with characters said audience has never even heard of. Any argument that starts with the idea that Marvel *hasn't* been successful is ignoring reality.

 

[The Overlord]

Dude, wenn du schon auf "erhabene" Sprache machst, dann hättest du anstatt "vielfältig" lieber "mannigfaltig" sagen sollen. Außerdem zählt ein Österreicher nicht als jemand der das Recht hat die deutsche Sprache zu benutzen.

@Mods

Please forgive me for this, I am very well aware of the fact that the forums language here is english, but the guy above talked directly to me in german (choosing his words in a arrogant way, pretending he is the lingual king or something), so I had to response. I will not respond to this guy again, even if he talks to me in german again.

@Topic

Well, it is true that my article was more of a Anti-Marvel Studios rant than a good founded and reasearched study. But this is just the result from being utterly disappointed by Marvel Studios for the past 3 years. Ever since Iron Man 2, actually. You dont have to like this post, but it is my honest opinion at the moment.

Ok, "The Avengers" was quite good, as I said. And I also understand the succeess. Thats exactly what the GA wants to see nowadays, and at least its better than Transformers. The Avengers characzers have profile.

Marvel earns much money these days, but I still predict that wont last forever. They will reach a "dead point" eventually. Not sure if DC manages to get something off the ground, though.

One last thing:

To all of those who defend "Captain America: TFA" as a good movie. LOL? This is so sooo wrong. And thats not just me. Read many professional critics. Captain America TFA is the perfect blueprint for mediocre paint after numbers Hollywood CBM stuff.

If cap is in the vein of Indiana Jones, using much of the same elements, then why oh why is Indiana Jones like 1000 times more enjoyable? Id like to know this.

I didn't like Captain America much either, but I thought Thor was enjoyable enough. I think you are really into WWII history, Captain America will often fall flat.

I think you are giving DC credit for things they have not done yet and the fact that GL was the first major non Batman or Superman and it sucked, is not a good sign. I am not excited to see the next Superman movie, because I don't have a high opinion of Zack Snyder at this point and I think using Zod again is playing it safe. Plus not having any DC movies out in 2014, makes it look like they have no idea what they are doing.

I fear DC might try to rush out a JLA movie in 2015, without setting up most of the characters or planning it properly, just compete with Avengers.

 

[Lord Valumart]

Well, Cap has been compared to Raiders ever since it went into production. It was constantly called "Marvels Indiana Jones". So it really has to take that comparsion. And in that comparsion Captain America loses. Its that simple.

But I dont want to rob the fun of anyone who liked CA:TFA. It might still be an enjoyable Comic-flick if you lower down your standards a bit.

Yeh, but it was never going to live up to Indiana Jones, because of the reasons I said above. It's just one of those things. At no point did I lower my standards when I saw Captain America. I watched with the intention of seeing a fun action film. If anything the only let down was the Red Skull.

 

[Thedudehimself]

Yeh, but it was never going to live up to Indiana Jones, because of the reasons I said above. It's just one of those things. At no point did I lower my standards when I saw Captain America. I watched with the intention of seeing a fun action film. If anything the only let down was the Red Skull.

I really CAN NOT forgive Marvel for having watered down the Nazis, replacing them with Hydra. When Indiana Jones can show Swastika wearing Soldiers in German uniforms, why cant Captain America do so? I really wanted to see Cap kick Nazi ass. And please dont tell me Hydra were in fact Nazis. They werent. They were just some kind of science based crime organization led by a nutjob. They even turned against the Nazis at some point.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Dude, sorry if you think the language I use is arrogant, but that's the way I usually talk. But saying both " I'll talkt to you again if you speak German as good as I speak English" and "Austrians don't have the right ti speak German" of course are not arrogant at all.
But as I said above your analysis is obviously biased and as such purely subjective. A discussion about it won't be worth the result.

 

[Lord Valumart]

I really CAN NOT forgive Marvel for having watered down the Nazis, replacing them with Hydra. When Indiana Jones can show Swastika wearing Soldiers in German uniforms, why cant Captain America do so? I really wanted to see Cap kick Nazi ass. And please dont tell me Hydra were in fact Nazis. They werent. They were just some kind of science based crime organization led by a nutjob. They even turned against the Nazis at some point.

Hyrda may have been branch of the Nazis lead by some nutjob, but he went against them in the comics so that's why they're there.

Again it goes back to what I said before about Cap ebign an already established character and people expecting some things from him that they wouldn't expect from Indy. Hyrda was a nice thing to give the fans of the character, Nazis would have been generic.

 

[Red Mask]

Marvels misdoings! Why Warner / DC will win the edge back eventually!

That was completely off the mark.

They did everything they could to make Green Lantern enjoyable, but it was handled with too many chefs. That's what you get when DC's comic fans handle their own films.

Some people just don't believe.

 

[Hammer!]

I sincerely hope that that "article" thedudehimself posted was a trolling effort. Otherwise that is pretty pathetic.

 

[Adamantium Man]

edit: nvm

 

[Coca Cola Duracell Franklin.]

Captain America was a much better movie than Thor. I thought that was widely accepted by now.

 

[Tony Stark]

I'm sorry, but anybody who thinks that Marvel has been successful by giving comic fans what they want is not paying enough attention. The comic fans don't matter, by and large. We are sources of hype, potentially, but nothing more. There are too few of us to matter.

Marvel has been consistently successful at selling their movies to the general audience, often with characters said audience has never even heard of. Any argument that starts with the idea that Marvel *hasn't* been successful is ignoring reality.

The article seems to base the whole argument on "DC gets great directors". As if that is the final justification. I'll give them Nolan, but Zack Snyder is hardly an A-list director. Sucker Punch was perhaps the worst movie of 2011.

Secondly giving guys like Favreau and Whedon a chance, just because they weren't highly sought after big budget Hollywood directors, doesn't mean they aren't good directors. In fact we found out both are very good directors.

Every Marvel Studios film has gotten mostly positive reviews. Some are better than others, but they haven't released a stinker like Green Lantern or Batman and Robin. The failed Marvel films were at other studios, and were usually the fault of heavy studio interference.

The article is just jealous fanboy rage. The fact is that Thor and Captain America had only slightly less audience attendance than Batman Begins or Superman Returns, and both Iron Man movies had far, far more.

Superman and Batman are cultural icons, so for MS to make a film with a guy that was an unknown to the general public in Iron Man, and a guy who seems a relic of WWII in Captain America, and a guy who is probably more known for mythology than his comic books in Thor and to hold that kind of audience appeal compared to two widely known cultural icons, anyone calling Marvel "playing it safe" or a failure, is out of their mind.

 

[Jon Hex]

Captain America was a much better movie than Thor. I thought that was widely accepted by now.

No.

 

[metaphysician]

I think its a toss up, myself. Captain America had a little better writing, Thor had a little better acting.

 

[redmarvel]

I think DC has been spooked by the low results for their B list characters and are now switching back to only A list characters. Even there, they don't seem willing to take risks for any character that hasn't had a past movie to start up new franchise.

I love the fact that Iron Man, Cap, Thor and the X-Men got their own flicks from Marvel. Keep up the good work Marvel, keep bringing new characters to the big screen instead of rebooting and reworking past characters. Don't get me wrong, I love the sequels too. Yet, I am eager to see something that hasn't been tried yet.

 

[roach]

I think its a toss up, myself. Captain America had a little better writing, Thor had a little better acting.

both movies had their problems

 

[metaphysician]

both movies had their problems

Which is the pessimists way to view things: what went wrong rather than what went right.

Me, I tend to think that since both movies were unthinkable not many years before, and potentially unfilmable unmarketable disasters even up to the point they were released? They should not be compared to some hypothetical perfect movie.