Marvel's losing its edge and DC's getting its back

[Red Mask]

A JLA movie wouldn't be the best thing to come out from Warner Bros. You're expecting too much.

 

[CConn]

He didn't say that. All he said was that a "group" movie is something Marvel can't do. Thusly meaning DC has the edge in that department.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Which doesn't necessarily make it a good idea. The JLA-like the Avengers-are not a team. They're a collection of solo heroes w/their own storlines who come together in the event of a crisis. A team is a family, where they interact 24-7. This is why movies like "X-Men" & "FF" can be done; "JLA" & "Avengers" can't. Not feasibly. Too many individuals competing for equal screen time. It doesn't make for good storytelling.

 

[CConn]

Is they can share time in the comic, why wouldn't they do it in the film?

 

[Red Mask]

The JLA usually assemble once to three times a month. Monitor duty only requires one person and constant rotation. Outside that time the superheroes tend to their own cities or adventures.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Is they can share time in the comic, why wouldn't they do it in the film?

Because...
the JLA comics been in print for decades, as have each of their own individual titles. At the same time, most of their solo books are still in print as well. There's no division of "Screen time" to dispute.

 

[CConn]

Because...
the JLA comics been in print for decades, as have each of their own individual titles. At the same time, most of their solo books are still in print as well. There's no division of "Screen time" to dispute.

But they'll all have their own feature films by the time a JLA movie would be made. Again, how is that vastly different from the comics?

And besides, the "division" of screen time is pretty simple; Batman and Superman are the male leads, WW's the female lead. Flash, GL, and MM are the supporting cast. It's not really that hard to do...

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't think a JLA movie could be done at a price that would be worth it. That would be a huge project, and cost a lot. Forget screen time, concentrate on the money.

 

[Red Mask]

And what's the story? A Jerry Bruckheimer rollercoaster ride against the Injustice Gang? Darkseid invades Earth? Or maybe it's the White Martians and J'onn Jonzz assembles the heroes to fight? Simply cutting up screen time for these heroes doesn't sound an appealing story if it's just a long music video.

 

[CConn]

I don't think a JLA movie could be done at a price that would be worth it. That would be a huge project, and cost a lot. Forget screen time, concentrate on the money.

Now, that is a problem. But, two things...

1). It's way more likely to happen than a Avengers movie (which was the original point, if you'll recall)

2). WB could invest that large sum of money in it purely for the spectacle; if there is a JLA movie. It'd be HUGE in marketing, hype, story etc. If they think they could make a profit, I could see them going for it.

And what's the story? A Jerry Bruckheimer rollercoaster ride against the Injustice Gang? Darkseid invades Earth? Or maybe it's the White Martians and J'onn Jonzz assembles the heroes to fight? Simply cutting up screen time for these heroes doesn't sound an appealing story if it's just a long music video.

The answer is obvious; don't get somebody like Bruckheimer to do it!

There's plenty of filmmakers who could make a JLA movie work.

 

[redlion2]

Actually, now with the latest DC movie news, I'll say this; if SR, Flash, and WW turn out as well as they should, Marvel will be in serious trouble.

How is this? When Marvel has Spider-man3, X-Men3, Ironman, Thor, coming down the pipe and Submariner, Silver Sufer/Galactus, Punisher2 and Hulk2 as well. Plus there's no garauntee that SR, Flash and WW will be good.

They didn't own last year in the comics department. DC sold more.

Where are you getting your info from? According to this, Marvel had the largest market share in 2004.
Marvel 36.54%
D.C 30.63%

Here's the link http://www.diamondcomics.com/market_share.html

More characters doesn't equal box office success. It's a combination of many things. Quality of the character, among them (in which DC has the advantage, IMO).

Your opinion. I disagree wholeheartedly.

I'm not caught up in the mindless fanboy wars either but I happen to prefer Marvel more. I want to see both companies do well with their respective movies b/c it's good for all comic fans. Both companies have had their failures and it's good to see D.C coming back but it's too early to say that they're going to grab Marvel's #1 spot. I believe Marvel is going to have a lot to say about that.

 

[CConn]

How is this? When Marvel has Spider-man3, X-Men3, Ironman, Thor, coming down the pipe and Submariner, Silver Sufer/Galactus, Punisher2 and Hulk2 as well.

I believe I already addressed this...X3, Punisher 2, and Hulk 2 are sequels. Sequels almost never do as well as their predecessors. I do however think SM3 will be the exception, that will do very well. Probably arond BB/SR's numbers (aka, it will beat both WW and Flash). As for Iron Man and Submariner...that's simple; Flash and WW are much more well known than both of those properties. Everyone from 9-90 knows who Wonder Woman. You can't say the same about Submariner.

Plus there's no garauntee that SR, Flash and WW will be good.

I've stated in like 3 posts! It's getting annoying to have to keep repeating myself.

Basically, what I'm doing, is assuming all the movies (both DC and Marvel) will be good. Not all of them will be of course, but to have this discussion, the playing field must be level.

Where are you getting your info from?

I can't say...I was mainly doing it from memory.

Your opinion. I disagree wholeheartedly.

Fair enough. I should mention, I didn't mean DC has the best characters overall...I meant it in terms of the upcoming movies (IE WW > Punisher, etc). But in anycase, do agree that larger properties will beat smaller ones? Like, a Spider-Man movie would beat the crap out of a Dr. Midnite movie every day of the week, right?

I'm not caught up in the mindless fanboy wars either but I happen to prefer Marvel more. I want to see both companies do well with their respective movies b/c it's good for all comic fans.

As do I.

Both companies have had their failures and it's good to see D.C coming back but it's too early to say that they're going to grab Marvel's #1 spot.

I have always agreed with that.

To reiterate my main point...my original point...

Marvel, with the exception of FF, has already released films of all of their main properties; Spider-Man, X-Men, Punisher, Hulk, Daredevil. DC...has not. And, my belief is, main, well-known properties will always beat, smaller lesser known properties. If the situations were reversed, and DC had already released Batman, Superman, WW, Flash and GL movies, and Marvel was just coming up with Spider-Man and X-Men, I'd say Marvel could/would be tops. And I doubt any Marvel fans would be disagreeing with me then.

 

[The Batman]

How is this? When Marvel has Spider-man3, X-Men3, Ironman, Thor, coming down the pipe and Submariner, Silver Sufer/Galactus, Punisher2 and Hulk2 as well. Plus there's no garauntee that SR, Flash and WW will be good.



.

and theres garauntee that the upcoming marvel flicks will be good?

 

[roach]

I believe I already addressed this...X3, Punisher 2, and Hulk 2 are sequels. Sequels almost never do as well as their predecessors. /QUOTE]

Where are you getting that from??? I am positive X2 did more than the first one. ESB did better than Star Wars. Superman 2 did better than Superman, Blade 2 did better than Blade. Two Towers did better than Fellowship. MI2 did better than MI.

 

[Red Mask]

Mission Impossible 2? That I can't agree with.

 

[brainchild81]

Besides The average film goer, not comic book fan more than likely still has a sour taste from Batman and Robin and might think this is what they will get. Don't call X3 a mistake already just because Brian Singer is directing. Don't call BB and SR a hit because who kbnows what will happen with them.

Agreed. Let's wait & see. After Catwoman, I'll have to have watched a good DC movie before I'll say they're getting anything back. This thread seems like a big DC fan's wishful thinking to me.

 

[HighVoltage]

O.K. here we go again.

and theres garauntee that the upcoming marvel flicks will be good?

Marvel have control about his characters,Dc do´nt.Marvel have good ideas about searching people who can do a great comicbook movie,Dc don´t,only thing about Dc is steal Marvel´s talent for his characters,examples;

X-Men Director Bryan Singer for Superman.
Blade Director & screen writer David Goyer for Batman.
X-Men Actress Halle Berry for Catwoman.
X-Men Producer Lauren Shuler Donner for Neo Constantine.
X-Men Writer Joss Whedon for Wonder Woman.

Wow.Dc/Warner is so original.

And about your question is;Yes,why? For example;

Elektra & Blade Trinity,ok,for us this movies are bad,why?,try to compare this movies with Spidey or The X-Men & you´ll see the difference,but,anyway this movies are great comicbookmovies because this characters are similar to comic´s counterpart,and this movies have things(easter eggs like DD Movie) specially for comic fans,& everybody knows this is truth,when I saw Blade against Drake in final Battle,wow,that fight was amazing,or Elektra fighting with Hand´s members,whoa,I can´t believe what I saw,anyway this movies are entertainment,but have flaws in comparison with others MARVEL Movies like Spidey or X-Men.But are great movies.

Now try to compare Elektra & Blade Trinity with Catwoman and (Neo)Constantine...Catwoman is an offense, and Movie Constantine is not similar to Sting.Only similar with comic is the name of John Constantine.

 

[CConn]

I believe I already addressed this...X3, Punisher 2, and Hulk 2 are sequels. Sequels almost never do as well as their predecessors.

Where are you getting that from??? I am positive X2 did more than the first one. ESB did better than Star Wars. Superman 2 did better than Superman, Blade 2 did better than Blade. Two Towers did better than Fellowship. MI2 did better than MI.

You're wrong on about half of the movies you listed. And I can list about 5 sequels off the top of my head who did not to as well as the film before. Remember, I said almost never.

 

[CConn]

Agreed. Let's wait & see. After Catwoman, I'll have to have watched a good DC movie before I'll say they're getting anything back. This thread seems like a big DC fan's wishful thinking to me.

Okay, let me say again, what I mentioned a little bit earlier...

Lets not look at it as companies, but as characters...

In one colum I see these movies coming out: Batman, Superman, WW, Flash.
In another I see: Spider-Man 3, Hulk 2, Punisher 2, Iron Man, Sub-Mariner.

Now, save for Spider-Man, the first colum's Superheroes are more popular with the general public. And that's why I say DC will put up some strong competition. I never said they would top Marvel. I'm saying it's possible. And I'd be saying the same thing for Marvel, if the situation was reversed. How is that biased.

 

[The Sage]

O.K. here we go again.



Marvel have control about his characters,Dc do´nt.Marvel have good ideas about searching people who can do a great comicbook movie,Dc don´t,only thing about Dc is steal Marvel´s talent for his characters,examples;

Are you serious? If Marvel has so much control over their characters and can find good people to do movies, then why did movies such as Punisher not go so well, why did Daredevil have so many changes and not do well, and why did Elektra have so many changes and did as bad as it did? If it's all Marvel pulling the strings in terms of movies, then that's kind of sad that certain movies did poorly, at least DC can say it was WB's fault for their movies' screw ups and not their own, LOL.

X-Men Director Bryan Singer for Superman.

I'll give you that.

Blade Director & screen writer David Goyer for Batman.

Who also happens to be a writer of one of DC's books, the JSA.

X-Men Actress Halle Berry for Catwoman.

Give you that.

X-Men Producer Lauren Shuler Donner for Neo Constantine.

Who happens to be the wife of Richard Donner, the man who brought Superman to the screen?

X-Men Writer Joss Whedon for Wonder Woman.

Wow.Dc/Warner is so original.

Let's not get started on originality. I'm sure DC fans could cite a number of times Marvel has "borrowed" something from DC/Warners and I'm sure the same could apply vice-versa.

The talent goes where they want, the companies don't steal anything.

Let's not forget about Superman and Batman scribe Jeph Loeb also doing some marvel work a few years back, namely Spider-Man Blue, Daredevil Yellow, and Hulk Gray.

 

[Weadazoid]

to help settle the argument between CCon and Roach

US Box office

1 Titanic Paramount Pictures $600,788,188 12/19/1997
2 Star Wars Twentieth Century Fox $460,998,007 05/25/1977
3 Shrek 2 DreamWorks Pictures $441,226,247 05/19/2004
4 E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial Universal Pictures $435,110,554 06/11/1982
5 Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace Twentieth Century Fox $431,088,301 05/19/1999
6 Spider-Man Columbia Tristar $403,706,375 05/03/2002
7 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King New Line Cinema $377,027,325 12/17/2003
8 Spider-Man 2 Columbia Pictures (Sony) $373,585,825 06/30/2004
9 The Passion of The Christ Newmarket Film Group $370,704,626 02/25/2004
10 Jurassic Park N/A $357,067,947 N/A
11 The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers New Line Cinema $341,786,758 12/12/2002
12 Finding Nemo Walt Disney/Pixar $339,714,978 05/30/2003
13 Forrest Gump Paramount Pictures $329,694,499 N/A
14 The Lion King Walt Disney Pictures $328,541,776 06/15/1994
15 Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone Warner Brothers $317,575,550 11/16/2001
16 The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring New Line Cinema $314,776,170 12/19/2001
17 Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones Lucasfilm/Twentieth Century Fox $310,676,740 05/16/2002
18 Return of the Jedi Twentieth Century Fox $309,306,177 05/25/1983
19 Independence Day Twentieth Century Fox $306,169,268 07/02/1996
20 Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl Walt Disney $305,413,918 07/09/2003
21 The Sixth Sense Hollywood Pictures $293,506,292 08/06/1999
22 The Empire Strikes Back Twentieth Century Fox $290,475,067 05/21/1980
23 Home Alone Twentieth Century Fox $285,761,243 11/16/1990
24 The Matrix Reloaded Warner Brothers $281,576,461 05/15/2003
25 Meet the Fockers Universal Pictures $277,292,460 12/22/2004
26 Shrek Dreamworks SKG $267,665,011 05/18/2001
27 Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets Warner Brothers $261,988,482 11/15/2002
28 The Incredibles Disney/Pixar $261,151,481 11/05/2004
29 Dr. Seuss' How The Grinch Stole Christmas Universal Pictures $260,044,825 11/17/2000
30 Jaws Universal Pictures $260,000,000 06/01/1975
31 Monsters, Inc. Disney/Pixar $255,873,250 11/02/2001
32 Batman Warner Brothers $251,188,924 06/23/1989
33 Men in Black Columbia Tristar $250,690,539 07/02/1997
34 Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Warner Bros. $249,541,069 06/04/2004
35 Toy Story 2 Walt Disney Pictures $245,852,179 11/24/1999
36 Bruce Almighty Universal $242,829,261 05/23/2003
37 Raiders of the Lost Ark Paramount Pictures $242,374,454 06/01/1981
38 Twister Warner Brothers $241,721,524 05/10/1996
39 My Big Fat Greek Wedding IFC Films $241,438,208 04/19/2002
40 Ghostbusters Columbia Pictures $238,632,124 06/01/1984
41 Beverly Hills Cop N/A $234,760,478 N/A
42 Cast Away Twentieth Century Fox $233,632,142 12/22/2000
43 The Exorcist Warner Brothers $232,671,011 12/26/1973
44 The Lost World: Jurassic Park Universal Pictures $229,086,679 05/23/1997
45 Signs Touchstone Pictures $227,966,634 08/02/2002
46 Rush Hour 2 New Line Cinema $226,164,286 08/03/2001
47 Mrs. Doubtfire N/A $219,195,243 N/A
48 Ghost Paramount Pictures $217,631,306 07/13/1990
49 Aladdin Walt Disney Pictures $217,350,219 N/A
50 Saving Private Ryan Dreamworks SKG $216,540,909 07/24/1998
51 Mission: Impossible 2 Paramount Pictures $215,409,889 05/24/2000
52 X2: X-Men United 20th Century Fox $214,949,694 05/02/2003
53 Austin Powers in Goldmember New Line Cinema $213,307,889 07/26/2002
54 Back to the Future Universal Pictures $210,609,762 07/03/1985
55 Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me New Line Cinema $206,040,086 06/11/1999
56 Terminator 2: Judgment Day N/A $204,843,345 N/A
57 The Mummy Returns Universal Pictures $202,019,785 05/04/2001
58 Armageddon Touchstone Pictures $201,578,182 07/01/1998
59 Gone With the Wind MGM $198,676,459 01/01/1939
60 Pearl Harbor Touchstone Pictures $198,542,554 05/25/2001
61 Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade Paramount Pictures $197,171,806 05/24/1989
62 Toy Story Buena Vista Distribution Compa $191,796,233 11/22/1995
63 Men in Black II Columbia Tristar $190,418,803 07/03/2002
64 Grease Paramount Pictures $188,389,888 06/01/1978
65 Gladiator DreamWorks SKG $187,705,427 05/05/2000
66 The Day After Tomorrow 20th Century Fox $186,740,799 05/28/2004
67 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs N/A $184,925,486 N/A
68 Dances with Wolves Orion Pictures $184,208,848 11/09/1990
69 Batman Forever Warner Brothers $184,031,112 06/16/1995
70 The Fugitive Warner Brothers $183,875,760 08/06/1993
71 Ocean's Eleven Warner Brothers $183,417,150 12/07/2001
72 What Women Want Paramount Pictures $182,811,707 12/15/2000
73 The Perfect Storm Warner Brothers $182,618,434 06/30/2000
74 Liar Liar Universal Pictures $181,410,615 03/21/1997
75 Jurassic Park III Universal Pictures $181,171,875 07/18/2001
76 Mission: Impossible Paramount Pictures $180,981,886 05/22/1996
77 Planet of the Apes Twentieth Century Fox $180,011,740 07/27/2001
78 Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom Paramount Pictures $179,870,271 05/01/1984
79 Pretty Woman Touchstone Pictures $178,406,268 03/23/1990
80 Tootsie Columbia Pictures $177,200,000 12/01/1982
81 Top Gun Paramount Pictures $176,786,701 05/12/1986
82 There's Something About Mary Twentieth Century Fox $176,484,651 07/15/1998
83 Ice Age 20th Century Fox $176,387,405 03/15/2002
84 The Bourne Supremacy Universal Pictures $176,241,941 07/23/2004
85 Crocodile Dundee N/A $174,803,506 N/A
86 Apollo 13 Universal Pictures $173,837,397 06/30/1995
87 Home Alone 2: Lost in New York N/A $173,585,516 N/A
88 Elf New Line Cinema $173,398,518 11/07/2003
89 Air Force One Columbia Tristar $172,956,409 07/25/1997
90 Rain Man MGM $172,825,435 12/16/1988
91 The Matrix Warner Brothers $171,479,930 03/31/1999
92 Beauty and the Beast Walt Disney Pictures $171,350,553 11/22/1991
93 Tarzan Walt Disney Pictures $171,091,819 06/18/1999
94 National Treasure Walt Disney Pictures $170,845,813 11/19/2004
95 A Beautiful Mind Universal Pictures $170,742,341 12/21/2001
96 Chicago Miramax Films $170,687,518 12/27/2002
97 Three Men and a Baby N/A $167,780,960 N/A
98 Meet the Parents Universal Pictures $166,244,045 10/06/2000
99 Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves N/A $165,493,908 N/A
100 Hannibal Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer $165,092,268 02/09/2001
101 Catch Me If You Can Dreamworks $164,615,351 12/25/2002
102 Big Daddy Columbia Tristar $163,479,795 06/25/1999
103 Batman Returns Warner Brothers $162,831,698 06/19/1992
104 A Bug's Life Walt Disney Pictures $162,798,565 11/25/1998
105 The Polar Express Warner Bros. $162,775,358 11/10/2004
106 Hitch Columbia Pictures $162,159,000 02/11/2005
107 The Waterboy Touchstone Pictures $161,491,646 11/06/1998
108 Die Another Day MGM $160,942,139 11/22/2002
109 Shark Tale Dreamworks SKG $160,861,908 10/01/2004
110 The Sound of Music 20th Century-Fox $158,671,368 04/01/1965
111 The Firm Paramount Pictures $158,348,367 N/A
112 X-Men Twentieth Century Fox $157,299,717 07/14/2000
113 Scary Movie Dimension Films $157,019,771 07/07/2000
114 Fatal Attraction Paramount Pictures $156,645,693 09/18/1987
115 Who Framed Roger Rabbit? N/A $156,452,370 N/A
116 The Sting Universal Pictures $156,000,000 12/01/1973
117 What Lies Beneath Dreamworks SKG $155,464,351 07/21/2000
118 The Mummy Universal Pictures $155,385,488 05/07/1999
119 Jerry Maguire TriStar Pictures $153,952,592 12/13/1996
120 Beverly Hills Cop 2 N/A $153,665,036 N/A
121 Scooby-Doo Warner Brothers $153,294,164 06/14/2002
122 Gremlins Warner Bros $153,083,102 06/01/1984
123 Runaway Bride Paramount Pictures $152,257,509 07/30/1999
124 Rambo - First Blood Pt. 2 TriStar Pictures $150,415,432 N/A
125 Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines Warner Brothers $150,371,112 07/02/2003
126 As Good as It Gets TriStar Pictures $148,478,011 12/23/1997
127 Lethal Weapon 2 N/A $147,253,986 N/A
128 True Lies 20th Century Fox $146,282,411 07/15/1994
129 Lilo & Stitch Walt Disney $145,794,338 06/21/2002
130 American Pie 2 Universal Pictures $145,103,595 08/10/2001
131 101 Dalmatians N/A $144,880,014 N/A
132 The Santa Clause Buena Vista Distribution Compa $144,833,357 11/11/1994
133 I, Robot 20th Century Fox $144,801,023 07/16/2004
134 Lethal Weapon 3 N/A $144,731,527 N/A
135 The Fast and the Furious Universal Pictures $144,533,925 06/22/2001
136 Dr. Dolittle Twentieth Century Fox $144,156,605 06/26/1998
137 XXX Columbia Pictures $142,109,382 08/09/2002
138 The Jungle Book N/A $141,843,612 N/A
139 National Lampoon's Animal House Universal Pictures $141,600,000 07/01/1978
140 Pocahontas N/A $141,579,773 N/A
141 A Few Good Men Columbia Pictures $141,340,178 12/11/1992
142 Rush Hour New Line Cinema $141,186,864 09/18/1998
143 The Blair Witch Project Artisan Entertainment $140,539,099 07/30/1999
144 Deep Impact Paramount Pictures $140,464,664 05/08/1998
145 Look Who's Talking N/A $140,088,813 N/A
146 Stuart Little Columbia Tristar $140,035,367 12/17/1999
147 Sister Act N/A $139,605,150 N/A
148 The Matrix Revolutions Warner Brothers $139,313,948 11/05/2003
149 The Santa Clause 2 Walt Disney $139,236,327 11/01/2002
150 Cheaper by the Dozen 20th Century Fox $138,614,544 12/25/2003

 

[The Sage]

Don't sequels most of the time make more than the original?

 

[Weadazoid]

Don't sequels most of the time make more than the original?

No.....definately not

Spiderman 2, Star Wars, Harry Potters all of them went down compared to the origional still hihgly HIHGLY successful, but did not do as well


And look at Batman.

The Matrix was an anomily had they just made 1 bigger seuqla it would have proven beter, Reloaded had people clamoring just cause it was the in thang

by the time Revolutions came around(arguably beter in most respects then Reloaded) the coolness had warn off.


it is VERY VERY hard for the sequal to do beter the OG>

 

[CConn]

Don't sequels most of the time make more than the original?

Not really. Off the top of my head...

Star Wars
Indiana Jones
Batman
Spider-Man
Superman
Harry Potter
Back to the Future
Rocky
Men in Black

All their sequels made less than the originals...

 

[Weadazoid]

Not really. Off the top of my head...

Star Wars
Indiana Jones
Batman
Spider-Man
Superman
Harry Potter
Back to the Future
Rocky
Men in Black

All their sequels made less than the originals...

exactly when it does happen it is looked at as a increadible success, now Granted Spiderman 2 was right there, and all things considered haveing eh Origional and the Sequal in the top 10 all time is near impossible, cause realy Star Wars and Star wars episode one doesn't count, leat not in my bookl.