Marvel's losing its edge and DC's getting its back

[Excel]

SO X Men is just an average sized franchise? Considering x2 made quite a bit more then the origional I don't think you can call it of average size, X Men is set to realy break out with X3 and the way I see it the numbers will only continue to climb. Considering X2 broke the 200 Million mark on state side box office, i don't think it can be considered of only average size.

Compared to spiderman-yes, x1 made 175 million. good but not great. x2 made 210. pretty good but not great.x3 lost the biggest thing their franchise had going for it in bryan singer and is being rushed. i hardly see it as a break out.
Xmen is average sized FRANCHISE. Franchies are a series of mvies that are all hits, generll 175 million-225 million. an example of an above average franchise is shrek or spiderman. I see Batman and Superman as above average franchises.

[/QUOTE]FF looks great from the show west trailer I am now realy realy into the idea of seeing this movie, I still have a wait and see attitude with batman, and while I will see it, I am not sure how critics and the general movie going audience will react. There are going to be instant comparison to Burtons films, and realy it is how the audience racts, after all Batman Forever got realy strong reviews, saying Shumaker exposed more of Batmans roots more so then Burton did in two films, and while opeing day numbers were huge they quickly dwindles cause fans and movie goers just did not see it that way.[/QUOTE]

Having read the script for both batman and fantastic four, ill say batman blows the fantastic four outta the water on every level-characters, drama, action. well, maybe not number-of-jokes. Batman begins also has a much better cast and crew, so ill go out ona limb and say that Batman begins will open to Spider-man type reviews because something major would of had to go HORRIBLY wrong, and wevbe seen no sign of it. an example of something major-Bale sucks at batman. it wont happen, but obviously it could. I predict the audience will love this new batman. Hes more humanized like spiderman, but even more so because we know how hard hes worked to become batman and you really want to see him succeed.

[/QUOTE]BB needs to hit people hard wih the final trailer, and in all honesty from what I have sen so far FF has out paced them with the finalized trailer.[/QUOTE]
Fyi, the fantastic fours trailer isnt very hard to beat. It suffers hulk syndrome. hulk first theatrical trailer showed almost all action, which at first looked cool. but then people figured out that its all fromthe same scene. fantastic cour only has two action scenes win the whole movie and only one with them fighting in their costumes. It promises a ton of action but believe me, theres a lot more comedy then action, but its the opposite inthe trailer. therefore hulk showed action but had more drama. four shows action has more comedy.


[/QUOTE]Superman could be great, then again they will see competion from X3, and I just don't know if Superman can be all that interesting in a returning role with no supevillain to fight Superman.[/QUOTE]

The superman story angle is great. Its perfectly fits the whole "return to the big screen" that supermans doing, and its opens a month after x3. Money wise just about anyone who knows anything about movies and these two movies in particular will tell that gross wise, superman will crush x3. probably get double any money it makes domesticaly and internationaly.


[/QUOTE]On one hand you are going to have x3 with a returning Magneto and god knows what else (sentinals, Dark Phoenix) as protagonist, and on the other hadn an all powerful superhero in Superman faceing the very smart, and politlcly powerful Lex Luthor. What kind of flashy eye candy is Lex going to provide? [/QUOTE]

with a two hundered ,million austrailian budget (equivalant to 220 million u.s. budget, from what i read), i think its safe to assume itll have some kind of flash, dont you?

 

[redlion2]

Compared to spiderman-yes, x1 made 175 million. good but not great. x2 made 210. pretty good but not great.x3 lost the biggest thing their franchise had going for it in bryan singer and is being rushed. i hardly see it as a break out.
Xmen is average sized FRANCHISE. Franchies are a series of mvies that are all hits, generll 175 million-225 million. an example of an above average franchise is shrek or spiderman. I see Batman and Superman as above average franchises.

The problem with your analisys is the fact that studio heads never look at what is considered a successful franchise from your POV. The bottom line for them is if the film makes a positive profit. If we were to use your definition and go strictly by dollar amount, then Batman and Superman couldn't be considered above average franchises. Here's why. According to Box Office Mojo figures, taking into account adjusted inflation numbers:
1.Spider-man $434,279,700
2.Spider-man2 $373,585,800
3.Batman $393,466,400
4.Superman $358,488,300
The only comics company that has a legit above average franchise would be Marvel. The only D.C. movies that made it into the top 100 all time are the origin movies for both characters and nothing else. You consider Batman and Superman above average franchises. That's fine. That's your opinion. I don't. Superman had two movies within the series that were considered good and two that were considered sub-par. 50% good and 50% sub-par. That's just an average series. The same thing can be said about Batman.

Having read the script for both batman and fantastic four, ill say batman blows the fantastic four outta the water on every level-characters, drama, action. well, maybe not number-of-jokes. Batman begins also has a much better cast and crew, so ill go out ona limb and say that Batman begins will open to Spider-man type reviews because something major would of had to go HORRIBLY wrong, and wevbe seen no sign of it. an example of something major-Bale sucks at batman. it wont happen, but obviously it could. I predict the audience will love this new batman. Hes more humanized like spiderman, but even more so because we know how hard hes worked to become batman and you really want to see him succeed.

That's good that you have a high opinion of BB, my opinion of FF is just as high. All we have is our opinions.

Fyi, the fantastic fours trailer isnt very hard to beat. It suffers hulk syndrome. hulk first theatrical trailer showed almost all action, which at first looked cool. but then people figured out that its all fromthe same scene. fantastic cour only has two action scenes win the whole movie and only one with them fighting in their costumes. It promises a ton of action but believe me, theres a lot more comedy then action, but its the opposite inthe trailer. therefore hulk showed action but had more drama. four shows action has more comedy.

Hulk syndrome, that's funny. I like that, but the same thing can be said about BB. Just like Hulk, BB is going to be dark and moody. Batman doesn't show up until late in the film. There will be more Bruce Wayne than Batman. Batman will have too much drama and be boring. See how easy it is to make any movie sound like it has Hulk syndrome?

The superman story angle is great. Its perfectly fits the whole "return to the big screen" that supermans doing, and its opens a month after x3. Money wise just about anyone who knows anything about movies and these two movies in particular will tell that gross wise, superman will crush x3. probably get double any money it makes domesticaly and internationaly.

Why don't we all just wait and see before we declare Supes the winner, okay? There's a saying about counting one's chickens before they hatch that comes to mind.

 

[Kmack]

*chews on popcorn*

This is getting good.

 

[Weadazoid]

The problem with your analisys is the fact that studio heads never look at what is considered a successful franchise from your POV. The bottom line for them is if the film makes a positive profit. If we were to use your definition and go strictly by dollar amount, then Batman and Superman couldn't be considered above average franchises. Here's why. According to Box Office Mojo figures, taking into account adjusted inflation numbers:
1.Spider-man $434,279,700
2.Spider-man2 $373,585,800
3.Batman $393,466,400
4.Superman $358,488,300
The only comics company that has a legit above average franchise would be Marvel. The only D.C. movies that made it into the top 100 all time are the origin movies for both characters and nothing else. You consider Batman and Superman above average franchises. That's fine. That's your opinion. I don't. Superman had two movies within the series that were considered good and two that were considered sub-par. 50% good and 50% sub-par. That's just an average series. The same thing can be said about Batman.



That's good that you have a high opinion of BB, my opinion of FF is just as high. All we have is our opinions.



Hulk syndrome, that's funny. I like that, but the same thing can be said about BB. Just like Hulk, BB is going to be dark and moody. Batman doesn't show up until late in the film. There will be more Bruce Wayne than Batman. Batman will have too much drama and be boring. See how easy it is to make any movie sound like it has Hulk syndrome?



Why don't we all just wait and see before we declare Supes the winner, okay? There's a saying about counting one's chickens before they hatch that comes to mind.

Thank you Red lion everything you say is true.

Funny that when one realy thinks about it you are absolutley right these two mega fanchsies Superman and Batman, have both performed equaly.

I don't thinkg we will EVER see a Spiderman movie as poor in plot and acting as Superman 4 and Batman & Robiin.

These two movies are of the type and on a level of being forgotten or wished they never made. Now I am not saying Marvel doesn' have thosse blunders as well, but these blunders were of the lowest common denominator. The O.G. Captain America and FF and Punisher, where the comibned budget of all 3 had em 10 Million total, if that. Released straight to video all of them.

I know the Superman Budget is huge but what in the hell is it for? I don't need to see Superman battling lazers or rockets or man made weapondry, if he has any problem with anything man made he aint Superman.

Superman doesn't work acrobatic in the air like Spiderman he freaking flies, OK make him look realy cool and realy real when he flies, great, people don't come to see Spiderman wal crawls and web shoot alone in comics and in movies that would be booring as hell! They come tos ee a fight a show down. And in this day and age they aren't just going to go see a movie to see Superman really look real when he flies.

 

[Red Mask]

It's a pity the writers of Smallville already broke so many traditions with Spider-Man 2. Whatever Singer will do in Superman will be more of an after-effect.

 

[The Batman]

Batman might do near-Spider-Man type numbers. I just don't see people lined up outside to see WW, Aquaman or, Supes. They all seem kind of vanilla. I hope all the movies are good and do well, no matter what company. That way, the consumers win. More importantly, no matter who makes better movies or makes more money, I don't care because none of it is going to my favorite charity, the brainchild81 pocket fund.

You do realize that people dont give a rats ass about biased opinions?

When is someone here going to do a real estimate of how the movies will do, instead of their petty biases?

 

[The Batman]

.

The problem with your analisys is the fact that studio heads never look at what is considered a successful franchise from your POV. The bottom line for them is if the film makes a positive profit. If we were to use your definition and go strictly by dollar amount, then Batman and Superman couldn't be considered above average franchises. Here's why. According to Box Office Mojo figures, taking into account adjusted inflation numbers:
1.Spider-man $434,279,700
2.Spider-man2 $373,585,800
3.Batman $393,466,400
4.Superman $358,488,300
The only comics company that has a legit above average franchise would be Marvel. The only D.C. movies that made it into the top 100 all time are the origin movies for both characters and nothing else. You consider Batman and Superman above average franchises. That's fine. That's your opinion. I don't. Superman had two movies within the series that were considered good and two that were considered sub-par. 50% good and 50% sub-par. That's just an average series. The same thing can be said about Batman.



That's good that you have a high opinion of BB, my opinion of FF is just as high. All we have is our opinions.



Hulk syndrome, that's funny. I like that, but the same thing can be said about BB. Just like Hulk, BB is going to be dark and moody. Batman doesn't show up until late in the film. There will be more Bruce Wayne than Batman. Batman will have too much drama and be boring. See how easy it is to make any movie sound like it has Hulk syndrome?



Why don't we all just wait and see before we declare Supes the winner, okay? There's a saying about counting one's chickens before they hatch that comes to mind.

.


Bias, Bias, Bias....

 

[The Batman]

This has gone from a "Over Excited DC Fan makes exagerated statements" thread to a "Marvel Zombies try to do damage control with their biased statements" thread

 

[redlion2]

.
.


Bias, Bias, Bias....

We're all biased to some extent. We all have our favorites, our dislikes and our ambivalence. To pretend otherwise would be hypocritical.

 

[CConn]

This has gone from a "Over Excited DC Fan makes exagerated statements" thread to a "Marvel Zombies try to do damage control with their biased statements" thread

It has.

 

[The Batman]

And to be biased makes everyone in here unfit to decide whether or not DC has what it takes to dominate marvel.

Case closed

 

[CConn]

Hulk syndrome, that's funny. I like that, but the same thing can be said about BB. Just like Hulk, BB is going to be dark and moody. Batman doesn't show up until late in the film. There will be more Bruce Wayne than Batman. Batman will have too much drama and be boring. See how easy it is to make any movie sound like it has Hulk syndrome?

Never ever compare BB to Hulk. That comparison is so stupid and wrong it makes my head hurt.

Just because they're both dark and moody does not make them similar; B89 was dark and moody, did that suffer from Hulk "syndrome"? (even though, it was released before it, I know). The truth is (and I do mean truth, not opinion), BB's script is simply better; the story's more entertaining, the dialogue is stronger, there's a lot more action, etc. It's a completely different scenario.

 

[redlion2]

And to be biased makes everyone in here unfit to decide whether or not DC has what it takes to dominate marvel.

Case closed

Obviously, time and fate are the only two factors that can decide the outcome of that rivalry. We're all just giving our opinions. If you're somehow too "neutral" to take this thread in the spirit in which it was started.....for fun, then why bother posting in it?

Who among us is "fit" to decide anything beyond the daily activities of our own lives? There's no cosmic game of chance here, where the "winner" of this debate decides the fate of the universe. There are no winners and losers, just people sharing their opinions. Last time I checked, that's what this site is here for.

 

[redlion2]

Just because they're both dark and moody does not make them similar; B89 was dark and moody, did that suffer from Hulk "syndrome"? (even though, it was released before it, I know). The truth is (and I do mean truth, not opinion), BB's script is simply better; the story's more entertaining, the dialogue is stronger, there's a lot more action, etc. It's a completely different scenario.

See, here's where you're wrong. That's still just your opinion. That's the only truth that I see here.

 

[brainchild81]

Obviously, time and fate are the only two factors that can decide the outcome of that rivalry. We're all just giving our opinions. If you're somehow too "neutral" to take this thread in the spirit in which it was started.....for fun, then why bother posting in it?

Who among us is "fit" to decide anything beyond the daily activities of our own lives? There's no cosmic game of chance here, where the "winner" of this debate decides the fate of the universe. There are no winners and losers, just people sharing their opinions. Last time I checked, that's what this site is here for.

Well said. Very well said.

 

[The Batman]

Obviously, time and fate are the only two factors that can decide the outcome of that rivalry. We're all just giving our opinions. If you're somehow too "neutral" to take this thread in the spirit in which it was started.....for fun, then why bother posting in it?

.

Because I'm sharing my opinion as well.....


Thar this debate is pointless....

 

[CConn]

See, here's where you're wrong. That's still just your opinion. That's the only truth that I see here.

Okay then...it's the opinion of me, and 95% of the people who have read the Begins script (and that's not just Batman fans, that's actual professional script reviewers). Have you read it?

 

[redlion2]

Because I'm sharing my opinion as well.....


Thar this debate is pointless....

So then, I guess you're as biased and "unfit" as the rest of us......

 

[The Batman]

I never said i wasnt....

 

[redlion2]

Okay then...it's the opinion of me, and 95% of the people who have read the Begins script (and that's not just Batman fans, that's actual professional script reviewers). Have you read it?

It doesn't matter if you and George W. Bush has reviewed the BB's script. It would still be just y'all's opinion of how good the script is. I can think for myself. Thank you.

 

[CConn]

It doesn't matter if you and George W. Bush has reviewed the BB's script. It would still be just y'all's opinion of how good the script is. I can think for myself. Thank you.

That's what I asked. Have you read it?

 

[Paradoxium]

I dunno Darth...I think a Wonder Woman film done right could...well, do wonders for DC's case.

The problem with DC/Warners is that they are afraid to take chances...they like their comfort zones. The only reason they are venturing out now is because of the widespread success of Marvel's films, and that's a fact.

Marvel has become a trendsetter in launching multiple titles simitaneously.

Warner Brothers is afraid to get wet.

It's not as influential as you think. Admittedly, it did help out but not as big as you think, mainly for Batman Begins, WB was rather anal with that property and wanted it up and done correctly before 2002 - way before the whole Spider-Man explosion. On the other hand I can say Spidey/Marvel did influence Superman/GL/Flash/Wonder Woman moreso. I think they just have more confidence in a good Batman film.

Evidently, they dumped quite a few Batman projects (The Frightening/Triumphant sequel, Batman vs. Superman, Batman Beyond, Aronofsky Year One, Joss Whedon spoke out about his pushing for a Year One as well) before officially greenlighting Begins. Nolan deserves some due credit for that - he has a strong vision and was really determined to get his project. It was shocker that a indie director like him landed something so big. I am glad he did.

 

[redlion2]

No, I hadn't and I prefer not to. I would like to be surprised when I go into the theater to see BB. Even if BB's script "seems" top notch to you, that still doesn't mean the movie couldn't turn out to be a disappointment. That is a possibility. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[CConn]

No, I hadn't and I prefer not to. I would like to be surprised when I go into the theater to see BB. Even if BB's script "seems" top notch to you, that still doesn't mean the movie couldn't turn out to be a disappointment. That is a possibility. Wouldn't you agree?

Umm, no. You're trying to argue the quality of BB on nothing but hearsay. I'm sorry, but I'll take the opinions of people who have actually read it, to a guy who just thinks it "seems" like that Hulk.

 

[redlion2]

Umm, no. You're trying to argue the quality of BB on nothing but hearsay. I'm sorry, but I'll take the opinions of people who have actually read it, to a guy who just thinks it "seems" like that Hulk.

Uhhh no. Go back and comprehend my post. I was actually pointing out how ridiculous it is to judge the outcome of a movie based upon a very small clip of a movie and/or rumors about a movie.

The Hulk comparisons were Excel's. I used BB to point out how easy it would be to make the same comparison based upon little to no information about a movie.