Mass Shootings/killings in America: the All Inclusive Thread

[DarthSkywalker]

But first, restrict access to guns.

It feels simple, right? We know that the accessibility and ease of use of a gun makes both suicide and mass killings far easier for people. For all the talk of, "you can do the same damage with a knife, bomb, car, etc." it ignores the fundamental issue. People don't. Why? Because guns are simple. They put evil intentions into motion at a breakneck speed that helps push reality out of the picture. Just pull the trigger. It's not bizarre that the vast majority of mass shootings are carried out by white men. So much of the gun culture indoctrination is aimed at them. They have turned it into some sort of part of the 'fabric of American culture". They have made it a sign of being a "true American", masculinity and white pride.

If the concern was truly about mental health and helping people, guns wouldn't matter. Except they somehow matter more then anything else.

 

[C. Lee]

After the El Paso shooting, or Pulse night club shooting, or New Zealand shooting, did you make this same declaration?

Yeah....I'm pretty sure I called all of them POS mass murderers.

 

[Holiday]

Yeah....I'm pretty sure I called all of them POS mass murderers.

In other words, you didn't tell anyone talking about some killers anti immigrant manifesto that it wasn't relevant.

 

[Holiday]

Because white guys have all sorts of ridiculous reasons for shooting places up as opposed to other races that have ideological reasons. Stop reading so much into this. I said they're white because they're white. Done.

What other races have ideological reasons for shooting up a place?

 

[Donner]

What other races have ideological reasons for shooting up a place?

ISIS.

Again, this debate is stupid. I called the shooters white terrorists because they're white. Move on.

 

[Holiday]

ISIS.

Again, this debate is stupid. I called the shooters white terrorists because they're white. Move on.

ISIS isn't a race.

You're trying to change the argument which is bizarre because the words are all here. You said not every mass shooter is bullied or lost in society, that some are white terrorist. The phrase "white terrorism" would imply that racial identity is part of the motivation. We wouldn't call a black man who shot up his workplace after being fired a "black terrorist" because his race isn't necessarily relevant to his actions. We label that person a terrorist or say he committed a terrorist act.

In two of your examples, the phrase "white terrorist" applies. For the other it doesn't. The FBI has flat out said there was no clear motivation determined for the Las Vegas shooters actions so for someone to say otherwise is notable. I simply corrected you on this because it wasn't true. I didn't call you an idiot or tell you to shut up or any other snarky comment. I've asked you to explain what you meant and can't in any clear way.

 

[Donner]

ISIS is made up mostly of a specific race. The point being that white terrorists in the US have a variety of reasons for shooting people, something that can't easily be remedied by mental health care because it's not like they follow a single ideology. Muslim terrorists tend to be of a specific mindset. Gun restriction is one single solution that could actually make a difference.

You're making assumptions about what I meant in regards to the white terrorist. Stop. We're done.

 

[C. Lee]

In other words, you didn't tell anyone talking about some killers anti immigrant manifesto that it wasn't relevant.

I don't spend my life on the net discussing every single mass shooting event. The most I generally say about them when there is a mass shooting is - This is horrible....mass shooters are *******s.....we need better gun control. - but mostly, I don't post about it. The posting I have done the last couple of days are the most I have done it, and it was started because someone was making excuses for some of the shooters (because he thought they had been bullied), and I don't believe that is an excuse for indiscriminately shooting innocent people.

 

[spiderman2]

There is no excuse for shooting people are just evil. Taking guns away is not going to do any thing. All that would do is create a black market like drugs and you would end up with crazy people still having them and the normal people known not having them to protect them self.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

ISIS isn't a race.

You're trying to change the argument which is bizarre because the words are all here. You said not every mass shooter is bullied or lost in society, that some are white terrorist. The phrase "white terrorism" would imply that racial identity is part of the motivation. We wouldn't call a black man who shot up his workplace after being fired a "black terrorist" because his race isn't necessarily relevant to his actions. We label that person a terrorist or say he committed a terrorist act.

In two of your examples, the phrase "white terrorist" applies. For the other it doesn't. The FBI has flat out said there was no clear motivation determined for the Las Vegas shooters actions so for someone to say otherwise is notable. I simply corrected you on this because it wasn't true. I didn't call you an idiot or tell you to shut up or any other snarky comment. I've asked you to explain what you meant and can't in any clear way.

If black men start routinely performing the same terrorist attacks in public spaces, people will start calling it black terrorism. Although the right already enjoys the label of thugs.

 

[Holiday]

ISIS is made up mostly of a specific race. The point being that white terrorists in the US have a variety of reasons for shooting people, something that can't easily be remedied by mental health care because it's not like they follow a single ideology. Muslim terrorists tend to be of a specific mindset. Gun restriction is one single solution that could actually make a difference.

You're making assumptions about what I meant in regards to the white terrorist. Stop. We're done.

What are the different reasons then that white terrorists have for commiting mass shootings? Google the phrase "white terrorism" and you will see it specifically refers to white supremacy or white nationalist terrorism. I didn't misunderstand or assume anything, you used a term incorrectly.

You're one example of the different types of terrorist attacks other races commit is very poor. Even white people has pledged allegiance to ISIS if I'm not mistaken. Is that white terrorism?

You say this conversation is done but continue to reply. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Holiday]

I don't spend my life on the net discussing every single mass shooting event. The most I generally say about them when there is a mass shooting is - This is horrible....mass shooters are *******s.....we need better gun control. - but mostly, I don't post about it. The posting I have done the last couple of days are the most I have done it, and it was started because someone was making excuses for some of the shooters (because he thought they had been bullied), and I don't believe that is an excuse for indiscriminately shooting innocent people.

So when a mass shooting happens you state the obvious that said shooter is a horrible person and that more gun control is needed without getting into any specifics about what type gun control. I mean, I'm sure you've gotten into gun control and gun law debates over the years but you made no mention of what law could have stopped the school shooting from a few days ago.

Your post about the Walmart shooting wasn't a mass or random shooting so it didn't even fit the thread. Also no mention of what type of gun control could have stopped it.

 

[Holiday]

There is no excuse for shooting people are just evil. Taking guns away is not going to do any thing. All that would do is create a black market like drugs and you would end up with crazy people still having them and the normal people known not having them to protect them self.

Yep, and a black market for guns already exist and thrives on some areas. The majority here don't consider this because they willfully ignore self defense shootings.

 

[Donner]

What are the different reasons then that white terrorists have for commiting mass shootings? Google the phrase "white terrorism" and you will see it specifically refers to white supremacy or white nationalist terrorism. I didn't misunderstand or assume anything, you used a term incorrectly.

You're one example of the different types of terrorist attacks other races commit is very poor. Even white people has pledged allegiance to ISIS if I'm not mistaken. Is that white terrorism?

You say this conversation is done but continue to reply. It doesn't work that way.

If I used the term incorrectly fine. But that's not what I meant which I have said over and over.

Get over it.

 

[C. Lee]

So when a mass shooting happens you state the obvious that said shooter is a horrible person and that more gun control is needed without getting into any specifics about what type gun control.

Yep.

I mean, I'm sure you've gotten into gun control and gun law debates over the years

And you would be wrong. I debate very few things....and gun control is one I don't get in to.

but you made no mention of what law could have stopped the school shooting from a few days ago.

That's right....I did not mention any.

Your post about the Walmart shooting wasn't a mass or random shooting so it didn't even fit the thread.

Yes it was.

Also no mention of what type of gun control could have stopped it.

That's right....I did not mention any.

 

[Donner]

There is no excuse for shooting people are just evil. Taking guns away is not going to do any thing. All that would do is create a black market like drugs and you would end up with crazy people still having them and the normal people known not having them to protect them self.

So doing nothing is preferable. Cool story.

Ah, the protection BS. Giving paranoid people access to guns is not a good idea

 

[Holiday]

Yep.

And you would be wrong. I debate very few things....and gun control is one I don't get in to.

That's right....I did not mention any.

Yes it was.

That's right....I did not mention any.

In what way was that a mass shooting? Three dead including the shooter who turned the gun on himself, all of this over a relationship.

 

[Holiday]

So doing nothing is preferable. Cool story.

Ah, the protection BS. Giving paranoid people access to guns is not a good idea

Aware of crime = paranoid. Lol, alright.

If I used the term incorrectly fine. But that's not what I meant which I have said over and over.

Get over it.

I'll have to at this point because I'm not sure that even you yourself know what you meant.

 

[C. Lee]

In what way was that a mass shooting? Three dead including the shooter who turned the gun on himself, all of this over a relationship.

You see....there is where you are getting your panties in a wad.....you are fixating on the technical definition of a mass shooting being at least 4 people....while I and others on here (and if you took a poll of the world, most of them would be on my side) take mass shooting as multiple shooting. Lighten up dude.

 

[Travesty]

I don't think he's getting his "panties in a wad", he's just trying to have a level conversation, where it seems some of you take pride in being purposefully obtuse on certain things. If you can't even agree to the legal definition of words like "terrorism" or "mass shooting", what's the point of having a conversation on those things? It's like you guys are purposefully creating a strawman against a subject, but then trick yourself into thinking the strawman that you just made up is real. And when someone pops in to show where the error is, you guys get all uppity. It's truly bizarre.

 

[Donner]

Aware of crime = paranoid. Lol, alright.



I'll have to at this point because I'm not sure that even you yourself know what you meant.

Aware of crime is a ridiculous statement. It's not as bad as people think. Not only that, but it's a slippery slope and like we've already posted in the guns thread, the instances of mistaken shootings outweight this good guy with a gun scenario.

I do know what I meant you just can't let it go. How sad.

 

[Donner]

I'll say this again for everyone coming into this thread that can't read: I was responding to a post about guys being bullied and that's what is leading to shootings. I replied that that isn't the case anymore because the three shooters I used as examples weren't bullied and then ended by calling them white terrorists (as opposed to Muslim or jihadi terrorists that have a single ideological goal). The white was showcasing that they are literally white, not their ideology. If it's the wrong term, fine so be it, but I have already explained what I meant so let it go already. It's not that complicated.

 

[MovieSlave]

I don't think he's getting his "panties in a wad", he's just trying to have a level conversation, where it seems some of you take pride in being purposefully obtuse on certain things. If you can't even agree to the legal definition of words like "terrorism" or "mass shooting", what's the point of having a conversation on those things? It's like you guys are purposefully creating a strawman against a subject, but then trick yourself into thinking the strawman that you just made up is real. And when someone pops in to show where the error is, you guys get all uppity. It's truly bizarre.

It's why I mainly avoid the political section. This forum is one big biased leftists circle j***. I'm not even a republican/conservative, I have just as many issues (if not more) with them than I do with the left. It's just hilarious when one political side thinks they are right about Everything including thinking how "their" politicians can do no wrong. I can't stand biased people on either side but it's the extreme leftists who are over the top with it the majority of the time from everything I've seen over the years.

Ah, the protection BS. Giving paranoid people access to guns is not a good idea.

That right there is the typical and lazy response everytime the fact is pointed out that scumbags on the streets will still have access to guns even after they have been banned. As you said, people are being extremely obtuse and have to make up bs like above because they don't have a legit rebuttal.

When someone brings up wanting or needing guns for protection, against tyranny specifically. The liberals go from making a semi-automatic gun sound like a WMD to all of a sudden referring to it as a "peashooter". I just say to those people...tell that to the poor bastards in Venezuela and now Hong Kong.

 

[Holiday]

You see....there is where you are getting your panties in a wad.....you are fixating on the technical definition of a mass shooting being at least 4 people....while I and others on here (and if you took a poll of the world, most of them would be on my side) take mass shooting as multiple shooting. Lighten up dude.

I didn't show any I'll temperament in that post. This is a discussion so words/terms are important. I understand now that you don't have any interest in any real deep discussion of mass shootings, the motivations, gun control etc. so your loose definition makes sense.

 

[Holiday]

Aware of crime is a ridiculous statement. It's not as bad as people think. Not only that, but it's a slippery slope and like we've already posted in the guns thread, the instances of mistaken shootings outweight this good guy with a gun scenario.

I do know what I meant you just can't let it go. How sad.

You as much as anyone has talked on these forums the last couple of years about male aggression, rape, white nationalist terrorism and other mass shootings. Particularly how women fear men and the strength disparity between the two. Guess what? There is a tool to bridge that gap.

But now, that it doesn't fit your current argument, crime isn't that bad. It was a totally valid response to your claim that someone who is fearful of crime is paranoid.