MCU: Phase II - Part 1

[Chewy]

So wait, you guys are not in favor of setting up SWORD/Carol Danvers at all in any movies before she becomes Ms. Marvel?

She's military beforehand so that's fine. I don't want her lounging around as the bff of Adam Warlock for years before she finds out Mar-Vell is a Kree, for instance.

 

[terry78]

That's fine, as long as the first time she encounters another Avenger, Black Widow doesn't go "Oh, Carol was my roommate in training camp" or some ****.

That's how Nolan would set it up. They just happened to "know each other."

 

[OB12]

I agree, too much of the characters having ties is a bad thing. Part of the allure of The Avengers is that these heros, for the most part, are not connected by anything. Other than Stark and Rogers sharing a bit of a connection through Howard, their meetings are fresh and new. I want to retain that feeling with the new heros that are added. They don't fight together because of some prior kinship, but because that is what heros do.

 

[Human Torch]

I think it's a bad idea to have Dr Strange in Thor 2,because -arguably- he's the last hero left that can carry a solo film,without needing a setup appearence first.

 

[Chewy]

Nah, there's still Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Namor, and good ol' Dick Rider

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Dick Rider

His parents must have really hated him.

 

[Human Torch]

I think Namor should be intro'ed in a FF film,Black Panther in an Avengers film,and as for Nova,I doubt most people know much about him,but I suppose he'll get introduced in Marvel's Cosmic branch.(A GotG sequel maybe?)

I think they could carry a movie,but I think they need some kind of intro first.

 

[Chewy]

Not really. None of those properties are more obscure than GotG. You just need to make the public aware that they're connected to the Avengers stuff and make movies that look appealing

 

[marcvader]

In a perfect world I'd intro Mar-Vell in GotG then have him be part of the Ms. Marvel solo. Then the sequel to Ms. Marvel become Captain Marvel.

 

[Mr. Dent]

But the characters don't "exist", not before their origins at least. Dr Strange is just a surgeon before he hurts his hands, I don't see how tying him into a Thor film does anything to further either his own arc or Thor's. It just waters down his own first encounter with the mystical forces in his eventual movie.

Also the desire to tie everything in before the fact is awful, it makes everything feel far more coincidental and tacky. Very Star Wars prequelsy.

Co-sign.

The other day, I read a post on another site about how maybe Starlord would be a friend of Stark, and I was like "WHY!?!?!?!" I'd find that incredibly annoying.

I really don't understand this school of thought. How is introducing characters before they become superheros detrimental to their story arcs? How does it make them lesser characters? If anything it adds more depth to them and sets up the fact that these characters had lives and roles before becoming heroes. And yes they can "exist", Dr. Strange doesn't just pop out of thin air before he became a sorcerer; as you alluded to in your own post, he was a surgeon (scientist in the movies if the rumors are true). Showing what these characters were before they become heroes is a service, not the opposite.

 

[spideymouse]

That's fine, as long as the first time she encounters another Avenger, Black Widow doesn't go "Oh, Carol was my roommate in training camp" or some ****.

She's military beforehand so that's fine. I don't want her lounging around as the bff of Adam Warlock for years before she finds out Mar-Vell is a Kree, for instance.

Sure. So, I do think there are ways where Phase II films could introduce certain characters before they become what they will become, if it serves the story and does not detract from the movie itself or from future movies. They have already had a couple of easter eggs referring to the existence of Wakanda, Selvig already referred to Pym's existence. Of course a cameo or supporting role is different from a reference, but those too have already been done (HE and BW).

 

[marcvader]

They mean it seams contrived that everyone that will become a hero at some point in this universe seem to have a connection. Doesn't that sound sill to you? I'm a superhero and now my newspaper boy is one and now his dentist is one and his cousin and that guys lawn man. It just becomes like a six degrees of Kevin Bacon in a way.

 

[KangConquers]

They mean it seams contrived that everyone that will become a hero at some point in this universe seem to have a connection. Doesn't that sound sill to you? I'm a superhero and now my newspaper boy is one and now his dentist is one and his cousin and that guys lawn man. It just becomes like a six degrees of Kevin Bacon in a way.

Bingo. In a world of 7 Billion people, few, if any of the superheroes should know each other before becoming acquainted as superheroes. That should be the basis of their meeting.

 

[Chewy]

They mean it seams contrived that everyone that will become a hero at some point in this universe seem to have a connection. Doesn't that sound sill to you? I'm a superhero and now my newspaper boy is one and now his dentist is one and his cousin and that guys lawn man. It just becomes like a six degrees of Kevin Bacon in a way.

Yeah. The connections are fun but at a certain point you're doing more damage to your characters than good.

"Oh, Jane's long-time scientist friend became the Sorcerer Supreme?" is really no better than "Oh, Darth Vader made C-3PO?"

 

[spideymouse]

They mean it seams contrived that everyone that will become a hero at some point in this universe seem to have a connection. Doesn't that sound sill to you? I'm a superhero and now my newspaper boy is one and now his dentist is one and his cousin and that guys lawn man. It just becomes like a six degrees of Kevin Bacon in a way.

I get that, but there are certain heroes that would make sense in this universe that they would be prominent in certain spheres of life. It makes sense that SHIELD would be monitoring and even involved with stuff happening in Wakanda, Atlantis, top scientists like Pym and Banner, and it makes sense that a top physicist would be familiar with and even be an associate of another top physicist, their separate fields notwithstanding.

Anyway, maybe I'm a Marvel homer but I do trust that Marvel and Whedon won't be forcefeeding us cameo after cameo, connection after connection. They care about this stuff too.

 

[Chewy]

I get that, but there are certain heroes that would make sense in this universe that they would be prominent in certain spheres of life. It makes sense that SHIELD would be monitoring and even involved with stuff happening in Wakanda, Atlantis, top scientists like Pym and Banner, and it makes sense that a top physicist would be familiar with and even be an associate of another top physicist, their separate fields notwithstanding.

Anyway, maybe I'm a Marvel homer but I do trust that Marvel and Whedon won't be forcefeeding us cameo after cameo, connection after connection. They care about this stuff too.

I trust that they won't, too, which is one of the main reasons I think all of this Dr Strange stuff is nonsense.

 

[marcvader]

I trust that they won't, too, which is one of the main reasons I think all of this Dr Strange stuff is nonsense.

Me too but if he were in it I would hope that he were already a master if the mystic arts and sought out as a consultant of sorts by the humans involved. That way it wouldn't seem contrived and limit the number of characters involved. His origin should be independent of Asgard and covered in its own movie.

 

[metaphysician]

His parents must have really hated him.

Ironically, they kind of do hate him. . . t:

 

[metaphysician]

As for Dr Strange in Thor 2, I haven't yet heard anything to indicate this would be an origin for him, as opposed to an introduction. I think its entirely likely that he will *seem* to be an ordinary scientist, but that there will be some kind of scene ( possibly a stinger ) revealing that he is a powerful wizard, and was all along.

 

[Lord]

In this interview with Joss Whedon:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/09/11/gwyneth-paltrow-may-not-return-for-avengers-2

This statement:

It is the beginning of something that is complex and difficult, and now I get to dig a little deeper. And maybe, while I'm digging, just twist that knife. And that's exciting for me

The guy's going to kill somebody, or in least cause a lot of caos

 

[Mr. Dent]

As for Dr Strange in Thor 2, I haven't yet heard anything to indicate this would be an origin for him, as opposed to an introduction. I think its entirely likely that he will *seem* to be an ordinary scientist, but that there will be some kind of scene ( possibly a stinger ) revealing that he is a powerful wizard, and was all along.

That's what I said too but they don't like that idea either. Meh personally I'm fine with it.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

In this interview with Joss Whedon:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/09/11/gwyneth-paltrow-may-not-return-for-avengers-2

This statement:

The guy's going to kill somebody, or in least cause a lot of caos

while I don't think he'll kill anyone, I do think he will rock them to their core very seriously.

 

[cherokeesam]

They mean it seams contrived that everyone that will become a hero at some point in this universe seem to have a connection. Doesn't that sound sill to you? I'm a superhero and now my newspaper boy is one and now his dentist is one and his cousin and that guys lawn man. It just becomes like a six degrees of Kevin Bacon in a way.

No more contrived than a ****load of people who don't know each other suddenly getting superpowers from a wide variety of sources, all over the world and all within the framework of just a few short years. In other words: the way Stan Lee and DC did it. That's the most improbable series of coincidences of all.

I'd actually prefer to see a Grand Unified Theory of Superherodom in the MCU. Superhero universes are always better when they have a unifying source behind all these disparate origins, like in the X-Men universe, the Heroes TV show, and the excellent Wild Cards anthology novels.

 

[marcvader]

That's fine by me. It just seems more if a contrivance if every other person gets a superpower. I mean what percentage of the population is becoming a super if every other character in one of these movies that happen to be connected are becoming supers. They need to come in contact after the fact.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

In this interview with Joss Whedon:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/09/11/gwyneth-paltrow-may-not-return-for-avengers-2

This statement:

The guy's going to kill somebody, or in least cause a lot of caos

lol'd involuntarily. he's got murder in his eyes.